FOB's vs. Ninjas - Modifications to FOB system

[Xander[nl]]

Here's an example of when this mechanic would backfire huge; Last night, seeding on Mestia, I was pretty much the only one on the offensive. I had located the enemy fob and sat there watching as a dozen or so players respawned about 30 meters away from me. After I felt the spawning/fighting had died down enough I started to make my move. Needless to say more people spawned while I was advancing, and thus had lost visual on the FOB itself. When I got there I basically caught all three of them with their heads in the moon, one seemed AFK the other two were sorting kits. Ya I spawn camped them, ya it felt uncool to be doing this to oblivious opponents, and hell yes this is a dirty tactic.

So why encourage it to the maximum extent by basically forcing someone to spawn camp if they want to slow enemy reinforcements down? I could have taken the CE kit they requested and had a real fun time, especially if the fob will keep bringing my helpless victims.

Sorry this idea will make for worse, more unrealistic game-play then we have now, particularly encouraging spawn campers which are not a real problem.

Easily solved by keeping the overrun function. This still gives the team time to react and divert resources to go and defend the FOB but pretty much eliminates spawn camping.


Best idea I've read so far is Rhino's squadleader proposition. It should be done via the T -menu (so people who aren't actually SLs can't simply pick up an SL kit) in the radio with a requirement of min. 2 people within 50m.

[ChallengerCC]

In my opinion FOB reduce the tactic, the value of a "live" and the transportation teamwork. (in conlusion increasing the action factor)
For example APC are mostly get used for shooting and not for infantry transportation and support. The FOBs are preventing for organised transportation and higher teamplay.

In my opinion only 1 or 2 FOB?s can be build on a map. Destroying a FOB can only be done by C4 or heave stuff HAT, APC, Tank, Jet etc.
Each FOB must be completly destroyed to build it on a nother position. (redeploy)
Complete destroying is not possible for a enemy.

1. The more action based setting:
Each FOB has a certen amount of spawn points, like 50 spawns or so.
Then the FOB needs to be recharged. (crate)

2. The more hardcore realistic version:
Spawning on a FOB is not possible. (my personal favorit)
But this can cause some trouble on unorganized teams.

My personal feeling is that the main aim is now to destroy the enemy FOB then the Flag is yours.
Its mostyle reducing on building a FOB spawning and rush the enemy/FOB.
Simple: Moving Skirmish with Vehicles around you.

[torenico]

Are there really too much Lone Wolves that hunt down FOB?

Most of the times i do see my FOBs going down is because they get overrun by enemy infantry. Its not hard to hide FOBs and attempting to destroy it by yourself is almost suicidal.

The other day i was playing Mutrah with a friend of mine as Marines. After landing near the construction city, and spending much of our time in behind MEC lines, disrupting movements, simply beign annoying to them, my friend died and i found myself trapped in the city. I wouldnt call of a Huey, too risky, so i went on my own to the Docks, to join the other Marines. So yeah, after evading several trucks, apcs, cars and having a duel with a sniper, i reached the hotel. Walked around, stealthy when i found these crates. One guy was AFK so i took him out, walked a little more and found their FOB. Reconsidered if i had to destroy it, so i got closer to it with my incendiary grenade, not too much tho, 5m from it and threw my Incendiary, well i failed, you just cant throw them (Thats fair).

So i ran back to the dead MEC soldier, took his kit. I had that message coming up that i had to drop the kit, since the round was dying, used the Incediary Grenade the AFK guy had to destroy the FOB when two MEC spanwed. Unfortunely, for them, i destroyed the FOB right before i got killed.

I was lone wolfing? Yes and no, Yes because i was alone, killing random people and sutff and no because my goal was to reach the remaining Marines trying to cap Docks.

I was looking for a FOB to destroy? Nope, i came across it by accident.

There will be always lone wolves, always, you just cant deal with them. Back when PR had "Permanent" Rally Points i recall you had squads dedicated to hunt them down, true love wolves knifing rally points, now THAT was annoying, and many Rally points were left undefended.


I do think that hunting FOBs is a valid tactic, why not? A team must find a way to destroy B team, and a FOB is an strategic "Resource", no wonder why people like to hunt them down, its hurts the enemy alot, its desicive. And i say again, do lone wolves destroy FOBs on their own, all the time? Do they succed all the time? I succeded because i had luck, because the MEC were fighting the Marines without intensity (Low casualties) so it was left undefended.

But in a map, or a situation were two teams are fully engaged, its extremly tough to destroy a FOB.

[soldier19919]

i didnt read the whole thing but what if your whole squad dies and you are near a fob... and you can't get it down, i think this is useless, just kill the lone wolfers, not that hard. Insurgents work alone also....

[maarit]

In my opinion FOB reduce the tactic, the value of a "live" and the transportation teamwork. (in conlusion increasing the action factor)
For example APC are mostly get used for shooting not for infantry transportation and support. The FOB are preventing for organised transportation teamplay.

In my opinion only 1 or 2 FOB?s can be build on a map. Destroying a FOB can only be done by C4 or heave stuff HAT, APC, Tank, Jet etc.
Each FOB must be completly destroyed to build it on a nother position. (redeploy)
Complete destroying is not possible for a enemy.

1. The more action based setting:
Each FOB has a certen amount of spawn points, like 50 spawns or so.
Then the FOB needs to be recharged. (crate)

2. The more hardcore realistic version:
Spawning on a FOB is not possible. (my personal favorit)
But this can cause some trouble on unorganized teams.

My personal feeling is that the main aim is now to destroy the enemy FOB then the Flag is yours.
Its mostyle reducing on building a FOB spawning and rush the enemy/FOB.
Simple: Moving Skirmish with Vehicles around you.

good things there.
Maybe the whole knifing/incendiary method should be take off and fobs could be destroyed only with heeavy assets/C4.
and spawning would be interupted only if 4 soldiers are near FOB.

But fobs should have different strenghts(limited spawns)but amount of spawns would depend how many crates you have on fob.
(with limited spawns you could win firefights against another fob to just kill them from distance)
1 crate fob should deliver maybe 18 soldiers
2 crate fob=18 soldiers with HMG/AA...
3 crate fob=32 soldiers with HMG/AA...
4 crate fob=32 soldiers with HMG/AA/TOW
5 crate fob=40 soldiers with HMG/AA/TOW and MORTARS.
(10 crate fob=ninja kits for everyone and nuclear missile depot/GAY BAR)


so,now if lonewolfninja or 2 ninjas finds a FOB,they cant really do anything to it.
just inform the team that theres 5 crate fob here and we need support.

[Xander[nl]]

I do think that hunting FOBs is a valid tactic, why not? A team must find a way to destroy B team, and a FOB is an strategic "Resource", no wonder why people like to hunt them down, its hurts the enemy alot, its desicive. And i say again, do lone wolves destroy FOBs on their own, all the time? Do they succed all the time? I succeded because i had luck, because the MEC were fighting the Marines without intensity (Low casualties) so it was left undefended.

But in a map, or a situation were two teams are fully engaged, its extremly tough to destroy a FOB.

I can understand your side of the story, but it's really up to the devs to decide what to do with it. What would have been more realistic in your case was having to call in reinforcements to take out that FOB, instead of trying to rambo it yourself. Would a soldier ever do that IRL? No. He'd let his NCO know, who would let his CO know, who would then mount a coordinated attack.

The current system encourages lone wolfing; proposed solutions encourage teamwork. It's up to the devs where the border between these two should be. I'd personally love the second as it would stand for way better teamwork and better gameplay as a team would, instead of sending out a blue guy to sneak around, have to mount a powerfull and coordinated attack to take out an FOB and to simulate the overrunning of an area.

[xambone]

man up and defend or kill the ninja

[Xander[nl]]

man up and defend or kill the ninja

You don't want to know how incredibly easy it is for one man to sneak through.

I usually end up doing this stuff myself because I know how easy it is. I succeed 3/4 of the time and if I don't, I just keep respawning untill I eventually do.

Needs to be taken care of.

[Hitman.2.5]

looky here on this link

Forward operating base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now you know what a FOB is

that mound of dirt with a few poles and a scabby net and a radio isnt a FOB :S

[Hunt3r]

If you make FOBs hard to kill all you'll get is a lonewolf with Combat Engineer kit dropping C4 on the FOB.

If you make it so that an SL or CO has to be near a FOB for it to be spawnable it'll mean after the first wave of deaths everyone respawns at main.

Keep it simple, and understand that if you want to beat FOB ninjas the only solution is to hide them well and have a lot of them. If you can respawn on a FOB just behind the last by 200m, then all it takes is assaulting the former FOB position to clear it out and hopefully re-establish another FOB somewhere else.

[torenico]

;1715061']I can understand your side of the story, but it's really up to the devs to decide what to do with it. What would have been more realistic in your case was having to call in reinforcements to take out that FOB, instead of trying to rambo it yourself. Would a soldier ever do that IRL? No. He'd let his NCO know, who would let his CO know, who would then mount a coordinated attack.

In Real Life yes, he would either Coordinate some kind of attack on it or, i dunno, staying away from it if he cant reach his Superiors or whoever that is in charge. And also IRL, such FOBs would be defended by a significant number of troops.

But since Project Reality is a game, well, i decided to have some fun, and i knew that blowing their FOB up would relieve my Teammates in the frontlines. So in theory, i took out a FOB the unconventional way.

And i didnt called for reinforcements because the area was too hot, i think we didnt had any Hueys left and sending an APC there was suicidal, so i didnt had much left to do rather than trying to rambo it. Calling for reinforcements was useless, my Teammates barely had 50 meters of Muttrah City and i was deep behind enemy lines, noone would ever come to aid me, the FOB was located a few meters away from the Hotel. .

[ryan d ale]

Adding to this: How about making the FOBs regenerate health and/or regenerate if health is over x%. When the ninjas injure the FOB it becomes unspawnable, which ofcourse is negative for that team. After awhile the FOB will become spawnable unless something else happens. Obviously the FOB can also be repaired.

Nice compromise, good thinking.

[Murphy]

After reflecting upon some of the suggestions I believe the point of not having enough players to allocate to anything other then concentrating on the objective needs to be brought up.

It's quite a double edged sword really. If you want to make it so the FOB is only spawnable with X players/SL/CO near that would surely encourage defending the fob but in the end it works to take the focus off of the gameplay objectives (cache/flag w.e). On the flip side if a team wants to take out a fob and it requires an entire squad, well the same thing is happening.

FOBs might be due for a little tweaking, but some of these suggestions are clearly diverting resources from the main objectives for the sake of making FOBs over/under powered depending on the suggestion.

[Moszeusz6Pl]

I think, that the best idea is, that FOB can't be destroyed by knife, only by 4 incendiary grenades. I also think, that FOB should require crates to spawn, that will simulate, that reinforcement are coming by heli or truck. For example 6 spawn at FOB from 1 crate. It will looks more realistic, and it can simulate, that there are already some solders at FOB, so if enemy is nearby, FOB can automatically send message, that enemies is coming, so nearby soldiers can fall back, and defend FOB.

[spiked_rye]

I think, that the best idea is, that FOB can't be destroyed by knife, only by 4 incendiary grenades.

I agree, kill asset bleeding, and make it so that FOBs can only be taken out with incendiarys or high explosives etc.

[Truism]

You've missed the actual problem, which is that maps are too big.

People act in unrealistic ways because it's in their interest to do so. If you create realistic mechanics, they will act in realistic ways. Lone wolfing is unrealistic because in real life it is highly ineffective - fix troop densities and this will become apparent.

But I've been posting this on and off for years.

MAPS ARE TOO BIG.

[Mikemonster]

Any ideas involving crates are invariably bad ones because the crate system is usually the main reason there aren't more fobs on any map. Specifying them for a spawn is compounding the problem.

Also, there are usually enemy kits at the FOB crate - If you increase the number of incendaries needed to destroy it the lonewolf will just use the incendaries from these kits.

[spiked_rye]

Also, there are usually enemy kits at the FOB crate - If you increase the number of incendaries needed to destroy it the lonewolf will just use the incendaries from these kits.

True, but it will take longer to faff around swaping kits, dropping incendiarys, swaping kits, dropping incendiarys, than it does with run, stab, run (which also sounds like a good name for a band ).

As for having spawns linked to crates, I'm against it, because it means more time faffing around with supply chains than it's really worth; the crates get used up reasonably fast with reloading mortars or just with people swapping kits as it is. (though that said, I would like to see a revision of crate amounts with regards to FOB and asset deployment, but that's off topic).

[Psyrus]

You've missed the actual problem, which is that maps are too big.

People act in unrealistic ways because it's in their interest to do so. If you create realistic mechanics, they will act in realistic ways. Lone wolfing is unrealistic because in real life it is highly ineffective - fix troop densities and this will become apparent.

But I've been posting this on and off for years.

MAPS ARE TOO BIG.

Couldn't agree more Truism. My perfect balance comes at 1km maps (or 2km maps with high flag/static densities ie NOT fool's road etc) with 128 players. I feel that's about right, all current asset load outs staying the same.

As for the original topic, I feel that a lot of suggestions in this thread are solid, and the end goal of making lone-wolf fob hunting harder is a very good one indeed. It already takes considerable effort to set up fobs, and for what they're supposed to portray it sucks having single guys being able to trot around the map taking them out with a stab stab here, cindy cindy there.