Project Reality Forums

i don't get people who think its going to be boring as VIP whats boring about racing through ambushes and getting shot at?

it would be cool if there was a flag at the village cause its a nice place for ambushing/assaulting.

I would move the western rally point up north to the burnt out tank (or make a new rally point). In it's current position it looks like it will take just as long as if the people were to spawn at the insurgent main in order to get to the VCP (if this was this rally points intention).
Possibly make all other British cars have a 1 minute delay of spawn time in order to let to insurgents have a bit of time to set up their first ambush point without 2 British Jeeps rushing to VCP and holding it for 5 minutes until the VIP arrives. This will also ensure the British sort of have a (small) group briefing and know what the heck they are going to do for the convoy.

Attachment is my proposed route (love the idea of the village flag).

Bright Green Dot: Proposed new Rally point
Blue line: Bluefor route
Purple Dot: Additional flags
Cyan line: Alternative ending
Cyan dot: Alternative ending flag
Red line: Roadblock

Alternative Ending: Possibility of ending on the main road to the South-east of the Palace as the VIP would escape the area rather than hole himself up in a building that has the possibility of being swarmed with insurgents.

Road block: To provide the village flag with a reason to exist; the Blufor cannot travel down the main road so they must divert into the village.

Antol.PL wrote:I'm working on new gamemode for PR. For now, only a brainstorm but, i think this can work

As in VIP Extraction gamemode or another gamemode?

@risegold, Interesting route. Maybe the mode can be made like AASv4 where a random but logical route appears each time a server loads the map/game is restarted. Important things to think about are if the route is too open for the insurgents to properly utilize their iron sights MG's, if the route can be completely blocked with mines (we made sure that VCP flag cap radius was at least 10m past the actual walls of VCP so insurgents don't mine it off), and can the insurgents quickly react to an attack at that the next flag should their def. fall at the previous flag. If you noticed, there are a LOT more civilian cars which the insurgents can use for quick transportation to any point on the map or use as a makeshift roadblock.

Good ideas. Keep it rolling.

My personal opinion, I only see this working with randomized AAS flags/routes like you showed, this could work like the cache intel in showing bluefor their next checkpoint, while insurgents only find out what it is say 5 mins after bluefor do, bluefor would also not know all their checkpoints, but get them shown only when the current is completed.

- I really like the idea of having a respawnable VIP Kit so the mode can keep flowing.

- A huge problem with the old mode was opfor camping the exit/extraction location. This could maybe be gotten around by the exit being randomized and the insurgents only find it out 5-10 mins after blufor do. But I think this is going to be a bit of a map-bound issue.

- Routes could be reloaded, (maybe possible with some tweaks) in that if bluefor fails to get a checkpoint they get a ticket deduction and a new flag, in a different location.

'[R-DEV wrote:Tim270;1807591']Good ideas. Keep it rolling.

My personal opinion, I only see this working with randomized AAS flags/routes like you showed, this could work like the cache intel in showing bluefor their next checkpoint, while insurgents only find out what it is say 5 mins after bluefor do, bluefor would also not know all their checkpoints, but get them shown only when the current is completed.

- I really like the idea of having a respawnable VIP Kit so the mode can keep flowing.

- A huge problem with the old mode was opfor camping the exit/extraction location. This could maybe be gotten around by the exit being randomized and the insurgents only find it out 5-10 mins after blufor do. But I think this is going to be a bit of a map-bound issue.

- Routes could be reloaded, (maybe possible with some tweaks) in that if bluefor fails to get a checkpoint they get a ticket deduction and a new flag, in a different location.

I think it would make more sense to give the insurgents route intel before BLUFOR, 5 min. That way the insurgents would be able to beat the BLUFOR there and set up a simple ambush/defense at each flag instead of getting there to a BLUFOR force in wait with uber-Panther CLV optics. The short time along with limiting the sapper kit and the number of mines a sapper can lay will prevent the insurgents from simply blocking every checkpoint with a billion mines. It would also give them time to build a firebase and do a few ammo runs with the ammunition technicals.

This intel system you proposed could represent an escort team improvising after making initial contact with the insurgents. I'm not sure how real life VIP protection units irl react when initially engaged, but I would presume they wouldn't continue to follow the originally plotted path because it is compromised, and maybe even the alternate routes wouldn't be followed if they thought they were compromised so a random intel system makes sense. The insurgents getting intel first could represent in infiltrator/mole.

From what I see in this topic (including my own posts) the emphasis seems to be on ambushing at the flag points and nowhere else. Perhaps a new incentive should be offered to put ambushes between flags such as choke points. The Brits will no longer just think: "Okay guys, enemy at next flag, be ready!" Instead they will have to be constantly on the lookout for possible ambushes and take extra caution when passing through choke points. Perhaps the Combat Engineer will finally be used for something other than C4ing Cache and erecting razorwire. The convoy will be forced to keep looking everywhere for enemies while they cover the CE defusing the mines at a mined choke point. Possibly remove the IED's from the sappers in this gamemode to prevent use of IED's on top of mines (imagine all of the IED's from all of the different squads linked to different cell phones).

Perhaps another good map for this gamemode would be something like Fools Road?

- A huge problem with the old mode was opfor camping the exit/extraction location. This could maybe be gotten around by the exit being randomized and the insurgents only find it out 5-10 mins after blufor do. But I think this is going to be a bit of a map-bound issue.

I like the idea of a randomized exit location. My suggestion would be that nobody knows where it is located, until the Bluefor takes the last flag before it, a message says: Determining Exit Waypoint. As soon as this message pops up, the Insurgents know where the exit flag is and has 2 minutes to get there before it is revealed to the Blufor. This allows to Insurgents to make a quick, last minute defence.

@Tim - I like the idea of checkpoints being revealed after every flag, although I would tinker with the idea of perhaps having 2 shown ahead instead of just one and see which one would work best.

Important things to think about are if the route is too open for the insurgents to properly utilize their iron sights MG's

True this. It would be silly if the Insurgents were to ambush out in the open with ironsights. Perhaps there should be city flags, although you also need a reason why the British will enter the city (e.g. destroyed roads country roads) as I am sure they would use the sweeping desert to their advantage (as they have scopes and armour with zoom) otherwise the route would be semi-unrealistic. Maybe you have a drop off point in the city (hotel?).

@risegold: I don't think every player on the insurgent team will always ambush JUST at the flags, just like some players on insurgency wander off from the caches and do their own thing. There will always be that one wildcard squad which will be in the dumbest of spots and somehow succeed in destroying BLUFOR's plans.

There are PLENTY of other maps which would be epic for this game mode, we just used Basrah as a test for it because it was the easiest map to get permission from the DEV's to use and it is a rather popular map. This entire game mode can be made by someone with experience in maybe a day or two if they utilize the assets currently in the game, the brainstorming and testing is what takes time. This mode would also give the DEVs more freedom of creativity in the making of future items, especially for FOBs, than the current game modes like AAS which already have most of what they need (i.e. foxholes, mortars, MG nests).

The idea of randomized routes and Intel you proposed sounds real good I think the developers should go with that it will stop it from becoming prepared battles and keep the ambush and surprise element to this gamemode.

I really like this idea! It reminds me of Counter-Strike in a way, and it would work out pretty well.

Having more than one VIP spawn might present more problems than it's worth. However, it gives the terrorists an opportunity to strike while they stop over, rather than try to bag them as they drive past or while they cap flags. As a plus, redundant parts of the team can form up squads to secure that location/VIP against terrorists until the convoy arrives.

The spawn points for those extra VIPs are random and allow only [say: Squad 4, made up of 1 VIP + security team] to spawn in. This is the makeup of the route that the convoy will take. Whether the insurgents should be made aware of those spawn points is debatable.

The number of tickets given to BLUFOR is the amount of VIPs to securely deliver to the destination (think cache system).

doop-de-doo wrote:

like this map layout a lot better then last ones. its more realistic that the VIP is being escorted to the airport not an insurgent held base. someone should plan out alternative routes and flags as someone said before as having a pre-determined route will get boring and give insurgents too long to prepare defenses.

By the way if anyone wants this thing to turn out then there going to have to help keep this thread alive just say what you think because the idea is here to be developed not just looked at.

Just a spitball here, but maybe the VIP could be on the Insurgent's side with a civi kit or something? Say just have one squad that is dedicated to close escort, while the rest of the insurgents take up barricades and ambushes etc. Blufor would need to fight from the airport down into the embassy in K12, wipeout the security guard and then escort the VIP back to the hangar on the far side of the airfield in D2? it might take an admin to enforce, but the DoD could be dropped once the VIP in in custody of the bluefor?

Could re-name it HVT (High Value Target) possibly?

But i like the ideas of having to take checkpoints and such

MrTomRobs wrote:Just a spitball here, but maybe the VIP could be on the Insurgent's side with a civi kit or something? Say just have one squad that is dedicated to close escort, while the rest of the insurgents take up barricades and ambushes etc. Blufor would need to fight from the airport down into the embassy in K12, wipeout the security guard and then escort the VIP back to the hangar on the far side of the airfield in D2? it might take an admin to enforce, but the DoD could be dropped once the VIP in in custody of the bluefor?

Could re-name it HVT (High Value Target) possibly?

But i like the ideas of having to take checkpoints and such

Seems overly complicated to code, and generally it would be even more confusing than insurgency is now to new players. I believe that when making gamemodes simplicity is the key to success when designing them. Every major game out there that has achieved success has done so with rather self explanatory gamemodes. Not to mention this seems more like hostage rescue (i.e. a Special Forces gig) than VIP escort.

Yeah you got to make sure this gamemode stays as simple as possible otherwise it'll lose interest very fast.

I guess maybe i over-complicated things a little bit. Seemed simple enough in my head!

The long and short of it would really be that the Blufor have to find a single player on the insurgent team and bring him back to the airfield to be whisked away somewhere for interrogation, while the insurgents have one squad to stick around with the mark and protect him while the rest of the insurgent force harrass and ambush the blufor. it might be run as a community event sort of thing on an AAS game, just enforced by the admins?

As to whether or not it's a special forces sort of thing, i can't really see why it would be? If it was hostage rescue, fair enough, that's the kind of thing special forces get involved with, but i'm pretty sure that there are missions being undertaken by regular troops to find targets of some importance? If not, well it's something new learned every day.

But back on topic, this new VIP mode sounds really good to me! Randomised routes would definitely be the way to go for it to stop things from getting stale, and i doubt it would take a great deal of modification from the existing insurgency mode!

I remember back when i were a lad, we used to play massive games of timesplitters and have one guy who had to try and survive the entire round but he couldn't use his weapons... fun times

I think the VIP mode on America's Army 2.0+ in maps like SF-Hospital was really well done... aside from how the maps ended. The map ended the instant the VIP made it to the designated area... which is fine and dandy on a 5-10 minute 100% infantry round like AA's were (at least when I was playing, vehicles came later)... but in Project Reality, I feel as though it should be a little tougher and more realistic.

Lets say we are playing on Al Basrah, and the VIP spawns somewhere randomly on the map to simulate a downed helicopter (you could even spawn a downed-helicopter model with the VIP to make it just that much more believable) and he is the lone survivor. This spawn point should be at least 1000m from the USMC main-base, and at least 200m from the Insurgent main base.

The VIP is invisible to both teams on the map, and so he must be found first, then secured and escorted safely, and finally extracted to the USMC main base and has to go into the Commander's tent to end the round. In fact, I think that in VIP mode, the little blue/green/white dots that represent players on the map should just be turned off totally... so the VIP can't just run to the nearest blue dot on the map and get help that way. To prevent a solo VIP from just running to base by himself, you could put a dome-of-death over just the entrances to the base and that it only affects the VIP. The Dome of Death should NOT extend to where the Commanders Tent is at, or the heli-pads, and if the VIP is in an APC the dome shouldn't kill the VIP. This way he can be safely brought back to base via transport, but he is barred from just waltzing onto the base.

VIP's load-out at the start would be Unarmed, Unarmed Melee, Rocks, a Flare Gun and randomly assigned a pair of binoculars and he should also randomly be assigned a knife... as in, some rounds he has a knife, some rounds he has a knife and binoculars, and some rounds he doesn't have anything. VIP would have to be on its own mumble squad, and completely cut off from verbally communicating via global mumble channels, and can ONLY hear and be heard through LOCAL mumble chat. VIP should also be barred from using text-communications as well (to help enhance the significance of the flare-gun and local-based mumble restrictions). VIP should be able to pick up any kit on the battlefield though and use it, because that is EXACTLY what I would do if I was stranded... I'd use whatever I could get my hands on. I'm 95% sure that this text-based and mumble-based muting is possible because if you spam the PG UP/DWN keys in game (Roger and Negative, respectively) you get muted totally for 31 seconds... but it shouldn't be too hard to make that happen the instant you spawn, and then increase that time to the 2+ hours PR rounds typically are set to.... I don't know mumble well enough to say for certain that my idea is possible, but it doesn't sound that hard to me.

The whole point is to truly strand the VIP from the rest of his team... so that he is totally alone until help arrives, IF it ever arrives at all.

The VIP would have one chance to send up the flare and signal his rescuers and potentially the insurgents to his position.

At the extraction point, when the VIP gets within say 25m of the location, a kit should spawn with nothing but a radio and a colored smoke-grenade so he can call in for an APC or Heli extract (which WOULD be visible on the map, since the VIP is NOT VISIBLE, you'd need to know where to fly the chopper to) and mark the position with the smoke grenade as a more precise and visual means of identifying the landing zone. Then all thats left is to fly back to base, avoid Anti Air and other nasty things like that, and if you manage to get back to base and off-load the VIP, and the VIP goes into the commander tent the round ends.

To avoid ninja-VIP's who just skirt the edge of the map, you could have randomized points like some of the AAS style maps have that the VIP would have to pass through (instantly capped points would make sense)... although these points would have to be invisible to the Insurgent side.

The extraction point is to avoid the VIP from just spawning in, and sneaking his way to the main base and ending the round before anyone even has a chance to see him... the extraction point means that a vehicle has to get involved, and there is waiting around, which exposes you more to the threat of the enemy. It should also switch between two types of extraction... APC and Heli...

Heli mode should give insurgents more means of taking out the helis, maybe even a techy-based AA gun, and APC mode should have slightly stronger RPG's (think 0.95... I think it was) and more SPG's techies. Insurgents should also only get ONE bomb car for the whole round, just to keep things interesting.