I dont see anything particular wrong in your example video. However i did look at the values and it seems a bit excessive on the damage part. Cant promise any change tho.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-03-03 12:48
by Tarranauha200
Helicopters are not tanks. They actually do go down from 30mm fire. Helicopter dogfights should not even happen. Proper tactic would be to retreat into area covered by friendly AA and let them shoot down the enemy helicopter that is chasing you.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-03-03 12:54
by Inspektura43
Ok you can lock this thread, I couldnt care less.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-03-03 13:05
by K4on
We agreed in the team that the current ATK chopper physics are not that fortunate.
When people find the time they will work on them.
Damage related though, just imagine what would happen if some badass 30mm Heat rounds are clashing at light armored vehicles. It wouldn't look good for them in RL as well.
The Havok and apache already take more damage than the mostly non armored cobra, tiger and consorts. Though they are not air tanks.
Also if a Warrior or other 30mm APCs would need more than 10 direct hits to kill an atk chopper, players will rage as well.
Sure, we can code 30mm chopper projectiles different from other 30mm ground vehicles calibers, but that doesn't make sense tbh.
Giving these choppers more agility and speed would be also realistic and helps solving the current issues.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-03-03 14:02
by _Fizzco_
It's funny because they removed the AA missiles for a reason, go fucking kill ground targets instead of looking for their attack choppers. If you get a good chance to butt fuck their chopper then go ahead.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-03-03 14:27
by Inspektura43
_Fizzco_ wrote:It's funny because they removed the AA missiles for a reason, go fucking kill ground targets instead of looking for their attack choppers. If you get a good chance to butt fuck their chopper then go ahead.
Haha trust me I do that every round, then some noob that found out he must tap S and nose down while above me kill me with that Overpowered cannon in less than 5 seconds, now please get some of you facts right and then talk..
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-03-03 16:05
by atom9[CH]
[R-DEV]K4on wrote:We agreed in the team that the current ATK chopper physics are not that fortunate.
When people find the time they will work on them.
Hopefully soon
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-03-04 13:55
by _Fizzco_
Inspektura43 wrote:Haha trust me I do that every round, then some noob that found out he must tap S and nose down while above me kill me with that Overpowered cannon in less than 5 seconds, now please get some of you facts right and then talk..
Then your either hanging around for to long, or you need to tell your team to build some AA
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-03-04 21:47
by Murphy
I'd just like to point out that no matter what you try to do the attack choppers will almost always make each other the priority, once the enemy CAS is down you can start looking at the ground instead of having to check your back constantly. That issue will always remain no matter what changes are done to the armor/speed/damage values, it's part of the game if you like it or not.
In reality a chopper is likely to be called in for CAS once air superiority is established, this cannot be replicated beyond one team have CAS while the other does not. I like the maps that have choppers and fixed wing CAS, it kind of simulates the air dominance aspect...but not too well.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-02 16:00
by [F|H]Zackyx
The Hind-series gunships have been widely exported in special export variants, with slightly downgraded avionics. The "Mi-25" is an export version of the Hind-D, while the "Mi-35" is similarly an export version of the Hind-E, and the "Mi-35P" is an export version of the Hind-F.
The Iraqis were early foreign operators of the Hind, obtaining them beginning in the late 1970s. It is unclear how many Hinds were purchased by Iraq, with the number on the rough order of 60.
Iraqi Hinds saw particularly heavy action during the Iran-Iraq War of 1980:1988. The gunships were used extensively for ground attack on Iranian troops, inflicting great slaughter and acquiring a fearsome reputation. They were also the first helicopters to engage in serious air-to-air combat with other helicopters, in the form of Iranian AH-1J SeaCobra gunships.
The Hind had been more or less inspired by the American Bell HueyCobra and Hind crews regarded the Cobra as their natural enemy. Although the Hind was faster and tougher, the Cobra was more agile. Soviet evaluations had demonstrated that in a contest between two helicopters the one that could turn more tightly was likely to win.
According to a story, the Cobra's advantage in maneuverability over the Hind had been demonstrated in the early 1980s. A Soviet Hind based in East Germany was flying along the border with West Germany, playing "cat" to a US Army Cobra flying on the other side of the border in the role of "mouse". The Cobra pilot was a "real pro", and the Hind pilot lost control trying to follow his maneuvers. The Soviet gunship went into the ground, killing its crew.
This "kill" could more be chalked up to the Soviet pilot's fatal stupidity than to the American pilot's skill, and in fact the Iraqis demonstrated that the contest between Hind and Cobra was far from one-sided.
It might not have seemed so at first. In November 1980, not long after the beginning of the war with Iraq's invasion of Iran on 22 September 1980, two Iranian SeaCobras crept up on two Hinds and hit them with TOW wired-guided antitank missiles. One Hind went down immediately, the other was badly damaged and crashed before reaching base. The Iranians pulled off a repeat performance on 24 April 1981, destroying two Hinds without loss to themselves.
Then the Iraqis hit back, claiming the destruction of a SeaCobra on 14 September 1983; three SeaCobras on 5 February 1984; and three more on 25 February 1984. Things went quiet for a time, and then on 13 February 1986 each side lost a gunship. A few days later, on 16 February, a Hind shot down a SeaCobra, with a SeaCobra claiming a Hind in return on 18 February. The last engagement between the two types was on 22 May 1986, when the Hinds shot down a SeaCobra.
The score in the end was 10 kills on SeaCobras and 6 kills on Hinds. The relatively small numbers and the inevitable disputes over actual kill numbers makes it unclear if one gunship had a real technical superiority over the other. It appears that the outcome of the fights was dependent more on the tactical situation and pilot skill than the inherent merits of each machine.
Iraqi Hinds also claimed a total of 43 kills against other Iranian helicopters, such as Agusta-Bell Hueys. One Hind even shot down an Iranian McDonnell F-4D Phantom jet fighter on 26 October 1982, though different sources give conflicting details of the incident.
For all the people that say that chopper dogfitht are unrealistic and hellfire kills are not possible in real life.
Choppers were used in germany/ussr and iraq / iran as air superiority tools , this one the reasons why the mi-24 was the fatest gunship in the world at the time.
I actually agree with Inpek. Cannons are pretty ridiculous currently. Dogfighting should be more down to the skill of the pilot than who is at a higher altitude.
Adding some deviation to the cannon would be nice, and making choppers faster and better handling would be good too.
Realistically I think a small change will make a pretty big difference.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-04 10:58
by Pronck
Don't tweak the damage of the cannon, only give it some deviation and make sure the chopper handle better.
And about height v.s. skill, the best tactician will win, not the best pilot. A tactic is to go higher than the enemy.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-04 14:05
by Inspektura43
Pronck wrote:A tactic is to go higher than the enemy.
That's not a tactic.Thats a waste of time.
It should not matter what height you are on, and it should be the same as in 0.981
I know devs made this change so helis dont hunt each other but they do even more because cannons are so dangerous now.Every time you are going for ground target you have to look around for the enemy cas if they are alive, but even if you do look around there isnt much you can do about it by the time they start shooting at you.It should be that the helicopter in disadvantage (lower altitude etc.) should have a chance of survival(by using manouvers), which rarely happens in 1.0 since helis are so slow and non-manouverable and cannons are so good.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-04 14:43
by Brooklyn-Tech
- watch an apache video on youtube
- take note of the deviation of the cannon against ground targets
- watch a PR apache video
nuff said
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-04 15:32
by Pronck
Inspektura43 wrote:That's not a tactic. That's a waste of time.
It should not matter what height you are on, and it should be the same as in 0.981
Then I think you should start watching stuff such as Dogfights on the History Channel. In airwarfare height often depends the battle, sometimes by flying very low, sometimes by flying high.
If you want to get air superiority, you can use your helicopters as a tool to gain it, however for it to be successful you need a proper tactic. A tactic in this case could be flying at 900 altitude when it is known that the enemy flies often at 700 altitude. That way you create an unequal battle, which is the purpose of tactics, giving yourself the biggest advantage and the enemy the biggest disadvantage.
Whether it is a waste of time or not, I won't judge, I don't do CAS that often nor am I very good at it (average at best). In some cases it is better to hunt enemy helicopters, in other cases it is better to go for ground targets, but in any case a tactic stays a tactic.
Height should matter in any case.
Referring to the good old .98 days for you, realize it is over, I realized it with my lovely IEDs. You need to realize it with your CAS helicopters.
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-04 18:27
by Daniel
Brooklyn-Tech wrote:- watch an apache video on youtube
- take note of the deviation of the cannon against ground targets
- watch a PR apache video
nuff said
Do you have any idea at what range Apache cannon engages irl?? NOT PR...
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-04 18:29
by Daniel
I also agree, heli cannon should do at least 30 % less damage vs. helo...
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-05 06:36
by Inspektura43
Just saying, if DEVS want to make helis stop hunting each other (because afaik that was their intention in 1.0?) they should nerf cannons or make helis faster.This will make people stop flying at 1300 alt because cannons wont be so dangerous and attack helis will be more useful and always able to attack ground targets.
Helicopter dogfights will still happen but they will actually require skill and tactic (not as in "flying at 900 blabla..").
Pronck wrote:Then I think you should start watching stuff such as Dogfights on the History Channel. In airwarfare height often depends the battle, sometimes by flying very low, sometimes by flying high.
I dont know if you are talking about helicopters or planes/jets.
We are discussing helicopters here and if in real life two helis face each other at a medium range, different alt.(1 lower 1 higher) it still wouldnt matter because real life helicopters have much more up angle than in pr and also different firing modes.RL helis have LOBL firing mode which makes hellfires go in straight line (TOW like) like in PR and it is possible to hellfire a chopper.Even a jet and there is enough evidence of it already.They wont be able to use the cannon because it would be really hard to :
1.Lase and lock on the laze on the enemy heli.
2.Even if you do manage to lock on the laze your bullets will still be innacurate because hitting moving vehicles needs lead.
3.Firing the cannon without an acquired target (no lock) would be way too innacurate and the gunner will miss everything
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-05 08:02
by Ron-Schultz
[R-DEV]K4on wrote:
Giving these choppers more agility and speed would be also realistic and helps solving the current issues.
thats what needs to be improved, the demage system is fine for me
Re: Gunships cannons very OP
Posted: 2014-06-05 09:52
by Mats391
I dont think we have anyone currently around that could work on this. Maybe you guys give it a go? Its not that hard, just tweaking existing numbers and you will know how the result should look like
