Project Reality Forums

MichSt-Spartan wrote:Don't make a dome of death, just make better main bases.

The best mainbase can't do anything if no one is there to defend it.
All guys are at the front attacking and defending flags.

PR dosen't incentive people to defend there mainbase assets when the real battle is far away.

{GD}Ghost wrote:I've gotta say I have to agree with this guy.

I think that the "no baserape" rule is for pansies and while I agree that it is a dirty tactic, this is war, not tiddly winks. There is a means to escape each and every situation. It just requires a little brain power, possible adjustment of tactics and proper utilization of equiptment.

It isn't war you muppet, it is a game.

Besides, the closest analogy to base raping in RL is standing in a maternity ward and shooting the babies as they pop out. I think we can all agree that would be unsporting at best.

I've been thinking lately that it would really help if instead of making so many versions of Player Guides, people focused on a Rules of Engagement Field Guide. Just something small to keep on your desk that you can reference in sticky situations where you're unsure what's right.

Right now the rules are spread all over the place. Put together a common guide that's fairly short and can be printed for easy reference.

DrMcCleod wrote:It isn't war you muppet, it is a game.

Besides, the closest analogy to base raping in RL is standing in a maternity ward and shooting the babies as they pop out. I think we can all agree that would be unsporting at best.

I think the statement you just quoted from me firmly puts you in the stated catagory.

If you hadn't realized, this is called Project Reality, which means that it is a game who's efforts are to make this game as realistic as possible within the engine.

Your statement also brings into question if you know what the word analogy means. I don't think babies are equally equipt with weapons to shoot back. In PR, you are provided with more than enough equiptment to counter attack.

And thirdly, i liked the muppets so I'll take that as a complliment.

First of all I have to say Base-/Spawnrape is the lamest habit in BF2 (Vanilla and PR). The main point of a Raper is not to support his own team, it is to gain easy Points. There is nothing to do besides, finding a good position and kill, no skill no teamwork needed, that's Vanillastyle (ok since 0.6 is out the gameplay is more and more Vanillastyle, but thats another thing).

Some of you guys are writing about defend and take down the rapers, but the point is, if there is only one skilled and map-knowing pilot/chopperteam or tank-team, you will have no chance, that's what I saw in my 1000h+ BF2 experience. Maybe you can take them out, but I promise u have to die many deaths.
This is still a game, maybe a kind of realistic one, but still a game and in games in general fair play is a must to have fun and even the chances to win.

So raping is for stupid childs...

Baserape = Griefing

• Not Realistic:
  Any base that supplies troops and vehicles would also have dozens of extra platoons and security forces with the sole purpose of defending the base. This isn't possible to recreate in-game and baserape is exploiting the lack of defense.

• No Strategic Value
  There is no strategic value in attacking main/uncap base (unless it's the final flag) other than to kill infantry and vehicles as they spawn. This is griefing plain and simple.

• Poor Gameplay
  Attacking/defending flags is pointless. At the start of the round, the commander should send 1 squad to the first flag for defense, then send all other squads to the main base to annihilate everything as it spawns or leaves the base, winning by attrition. Hurray, that was fun. Yawn.

• Kills The Server
  Most people do not enjoy being killed 2 seconds after they spawn and will find another server to play on. Servers that allow it soon find that the only people left on the server are those doing the baserape themselves. Congratulations, you won the round, and now you're playing by yourself.

The purpose of the game is to attack and defend flags in a certain order using skill and teamwork. To baserape is little more than offering to play a game of chess, destroying your opponents pieces, then declaring victory by default.

If you want to baserape, go to an all-baserape server where all flags are ignored and where the objective is to achieve the highest personal frag count.

^^^^^^ look above people, wolfe has it dead on the money^^^^^^^

Above all, baseraping is BORING both for the rapers and the rapees.
Spawning at a supposed 'main base' only to be killed one second later is possibly the most boring and unrealistic thing to happen in PR. The problem is the uniformity of the spawners. As the rapers, you know exactly where every new wave of unfortunate chappies will spawn, killing them on the spot with no chance of a counter attack (see: spawn raping). If this was vaguely realistic, you would be flanked and annihilated by enemy reinforcements (which the spawn system is supposed to represent) flanking your position from an entirely different direction, not that one spot you keep watching with your tank turret on max zoom.

Ultimately, raping ruins a game for almost everyone involved. No challenge for the rapers, no chance for the victims. How utterly utterly boring.

attacking two bases simultaneously is a great strategy sometimes. i have been on servers where the people have complained that we are attacking a non-cap when the other flag is literally 1 minute from falling. these types of rules are really dumb, in my opinion.

come play on the STRIKETEAM server if you dont want ridiculous rules like this limiting your strategic choices.

That is the whole point. Baseraping is not a strategy; it requires no strategy.

Some players like to baserape. Most do not. It is not possible to mix the two. Server admins pay good money to provide a free playing experience to players and aren't going to stand for it being ruined by the minority who just want to increase their frag count and post pics of in on their frig.

If you want to run your server that way, fine. It's your money, your server, but don't ruin other servers by forcing your lack of stategic gameplay on them.

Now as you notice, I do not disagree that "baseraping' is a dirty tactic and I do not encourage it as described above. But I do not agree with it being restricted by imposing extraneous rules. Of course I will abide by these rules whether or not they are imposed on a server as I am not a "baseraper" myself. I think that the map design and the mechanics of the game should be addressing this issue if it is that serious of a issue.

However, I will often make my way from base to base destroying any assets I find, but I will not stick around an pick people off as they spawn unless they just happen to spawn while I'm there. (Just like an enemy may spawn while capping a flag before it goes neutral) I will not set up with the intent of picking people off as they spawn, but that is my personal ethics at work, not a matter of right or wrong.

As far as fair game play, one team has just as much opportunity to "baserape" as the other team. Another thing that will help people resist the urge to "baserape' don't screw about at your wasting time or waiting for whatever vehicle or aircraft to spawn. If your just standingn around hoping up and down, driving around in circles or any number of other non-sense I've seen, you're just asking for it. Don't spend any more time in your base than you have to unless you are defending it.

I'm sure there are many tactics and uses of equiptment that are employed by all armies of the world that the other side might find unfair or even unethical. Yes, I am highly aware that this is a game and that things need to be kept competative and balanced for both sides, but I do not think that "baseraping" hardly throws off the balance of power if your team is out on the battlefield cutting off this type of attack and taking cps. If you have no flags on the battlefield other than your base flag, then that is not the fault of any perceived "baserapers".

Wolfe wrote:Baserape = Griefing



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• No Strategic Value
  There is no strategic value in attacking main/uncap base (unless it's the final flag) other than to kill infantry and vehicles as they spawn.

erm......destroy vehicles BEFORE enemy use it has A LOT of strategic values for the team .

STRATEGY within the SPIRIT OF GAMEPLAY. You don't get it.

Fine. My squad will just camp your spawn full time. After 10 minutes of watching the spawn screen and listening to complaints, I'll claim I'm being strategic.

Better yet, on Kasan our frogfoot will camp your main base, killing every tank, plane, and chooper spawn. Troops will have to walk 15 minutes to the first northeast outpost. We'll back that up with multiple tanks and snipers in the hills to prevent any vehicle from leaving or any infantry from spawning and call it strategic.

Give me a break.

Wolfe wrote:That is the whole point. Baseraping is not a strategy; it requires no strategy.

Some players like to baserape. Most do not. It is not possible to mix the two. Server admins pay good money to provide a free playing experience to players and aren't going to stand for it being ruined by the minority who just want to increase their frag count and post pics of in on their frig.

If you want to run your server that way, fine. It's your money, your server, but don't ruin other servers by forcing your lack of stategic gameplay on them.

is this aimed at me??? i love how people immediately assume you base rape if you're against these ridiculous rules. i dont base rape. i am always doing something PRODUCTIVE for my side. i just dont complain about base raping. it's not that big of a deal. use some imagination and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. or...press the attack and win the round.

i have been playing this game a long time and i've never been accused of lacking in strategic gameplay. it's my strategic mind that prevents idiot baserapers from affecting my battlefield.

i like how you tell me not to force my style on other players, when that's exactly what you are doing.

Hey there Pygar, it was nice to see a lot of the StrkTm guys on the [DVB] server during Beta. There's always a great game when you guys show up. Congrats on getting your own server, we'll miss ya!

Feel free to base rape my team. More than likely, I won't be there. I'll be in your base raping your vehicles and pillaging your flags.......YARRRR

eh hem....yeah.

Threedroogs, It is not directed at you, but is directed at anyone who participates and encourages baserape. In the example you gave (the main flag was 30 seconds from being a legitimate target), firing into the main is technically acceptable imo and not baserape.

I say "acceptable" because as an admim on the TF21 server, this exact thing happened last night on Ejod; we were seconds away from capping the last flag before the main base. I was in a tank facing their main (not firing) and a friendly APC was next to me happily firing away in their main killing scores of infantry. I asked him to stop, but elected not to kick him since the enemy main was seconds away from being a legit target. We rolled into their main, grayed the flag, then I ran the next map (without waiting to kill all enemy troops) to avoid the enemy side from leaving the server in droves.

In this example, I wouldn't classify this as baserape; the main became a legit target. Baserape is when the main spawn is nowhere near being capped and where people destroy vehicles or infantry while ignoring legitimate, intended flag objectives. That is baserape and those people get a kick.

If there are plenty of other places you can spawn, this is not baserape. Baserape is sitting on a base that cannot ever be capped for the express purpose of killing off spawning players.

A preemptive strike on a base that is next in order to be attacked is not by any means baserape. If this is considered baserape, then this is ridiculous.

I think the problem with these rules many server enforce is that they are not specific enough. They start off general (something like "you are not allowed in an enemy UCB or to attack an UCB") and than gives us a long list of exceptions. This is somewhat confusing, especially since there are many reason to enter an enemy UCB.

Instead, rules should be specific and without exceptions. This would be much less confusing both for the players and the administrators that are supposed to enforce these rules.

Furthermore, once you accept that there are certain exceptions where enemy presence is accepted in an UCB, as an administrator you must also accept a certain level of flexibility in the basic rules.

Here, let me give you an example: Let say the server has these rules (just to go against my own word, i'll use an exception - which is very common on servers).

Rule: Players are not allowed in enemy UCB
Rule: Players are not allowed to attack enemies in UCB
Exception: Players are allowed in UCB to destroy assets (let say arty for the exemple)

So you have a squad that enters the UCB to destroy the arty positions in the UCB. To that point everything is fine. An enemy see you in the UCB and engages combat eventually joined by spawning members.

Now what? The exception in the rule create a gray area. And I've seen servers with exactly this exceptions where whole squads have been warned of getting banned because they attacked an UCB while they were only passing by to check for commander assets to destroy.

So either the admins become come more tolerant about this or they remove the exceptions in the rules.

The rules could also be improved by making them more specific. By making a distinction between a totally UCB, an temporary UCB due to AAS and even the next UCB to be capturable in AAS.

--

Perhaps, instead of making rules with hard to judge exception, making a simple rule like "You are only allowed to enter and attack a permanent UCB when the intention is to destroy enemy assets" and making guidelines (rules of engagements) for this kind of attack would be a better idea. Guidelines would be things like "you should not engage the enemy inside the UCB unless under direct enemy fire" or "you should avoid spawn areas of UCB".

This is a very touchy subject. But, overall, server admins really need to be more flexible in the way they enforce the rules from the moment they accept exceptions where players can enter UCB.

TF21 Server Rule:
Uncapturable main bases are off limits.

Period. No gray area there.

I never attack uncapble bases, but sometimes I like to place at capable flags on AA C4, in our world is always somebody who shoot AA for no reason.


Personaly I like what Fuzzhead said, its clear and fair.
I can also live with all is allowed rule but on maps like gulf of oman the carrier is in attack range of enemy tank, that map wasnt make for PR-ubertanks. So i prefer the "normal" rules from fuzzhead.
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