Realism: How WE want it!

Suggestions from our community members for PR:BF2. Read the stickies before posting.
DAWG
Posts: 236
Joined: 2005-03-08 01:35

Post by DAWG »

Hitperson wrote:weapon jams would be greatbut it would need to have seperate comands for reloading and cocking your gun

hows about you reload with r and then **** the gun with C would be great but you would have to get used to the different comands.
As far as I know the BF2 engine won't allow new command mapping for buttons, if this particular aspect of jamming, ie new button to clear jam was implemented, then something already in the game would have to be removed. Simply having to reload your gun would serve the same purpose. I like the idea and hope it can be implemented in the mod at some point. Unfortunately it won't be possible with a new key binding.

exdeath wrote:for a mod focused on more realism than reality mod visit here http://tsp.minorstream.com/news.php
What exactly has that got to do with PR. From what I can tell it's a mod for BF'42. Project Reality is a modification for BF2 and is restricted by what is and is NOT possible within that engine.
Image
Image
Hitperson
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 6733
Joined: 2005-11-08 08:09

Post by Hitperson »

DAWG wrote:As far as I know the BF2 engine won't allow new command mapping for buttons, if this particular aspect of jamming, ie new button to clear jam was implemented, then something already in the game would have to be removed. Simply having to reload your gun would serve the same purpose. I like the idea and hope it can be implemented in the mod at some point. Unfortunately it won't be possible with a new key binding.




What exactly has that got to do with PR. From what I can tell it's a mod for BF'42. Project Reality is a modification for BF2 and is restricted by what is and is NOT possible within that engine.

thank you for you support on that front i tough about it again and decided tat with bolt action rifles you should be able to slowly eject the round so you don't show your positions to enemies from the bullet cases hence boltaction rifles are most comonly used in the armed forces ofthe world because they are light and your enimies cant see you.
Image
Harrod200:"Fire.exe has committed an illegal operation and has been shut down"
Raniak : "Warning: May crash if fired upon."
M4sherman: "like peter pan but with tanks"
[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 (on sim tower) "It truly was the game of my childhood and has led to me getting my degree in industrial engineering."
visaya
Posts: 69
Joined: 2005-11-29 05:02

Post by visaya »

Can we get back on subject now? :) Support teamwork and realism in the pubs :)
Image
Visaya - Teamwork and Realism - at all costs.
No I do not want to die playing a game (unrealism fans have been using this against me for years)
Hitperson
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 6733
Joined: 2005-11-08 08:09

Post by Hitperson »

visaya wrote:Can we get back on subject now? :) Support teamwork and realism in the pubs :)

that is how i want it though and it is a technique used by snipers also it was on topic so :-P
Image
Harrod200:"Fire.exe has committed an illegal operation and has been shut down"
Raniak : "Warning: May crash if fired upon."
M4sherman: "like peter pan but with tanks"
[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 (on sim tower) "It truly was the game of my childhood and has led to me getting my degree in industrial engineering."
OverwatchX
Posts: 258
Joined: 2005-07-10 20:53

Post by OverwatchX »

If I may wade in here with a point on realism. Im one of the realism at-all-cost nuts.

Ive been playing the PRMM and really like the direction the mod is heading. There are two main issues that totally wreck the realism factor. 2 things that keep this game too close to the vanilla BF2. Perhaps these have already been discussed to death...in fact Im sure they have. Nonetheless, I want to voice them again.

One is nametags. Youre halfway there having removed them from enemy targets. They need to come off of friendlies unless that friendly is right on top of you. Its a buzzkiller to see friendly nametags so far out. Its like one doesnt even have to try to ID a target as friend or foe (something that adds to the battle strain)...the computer does it for you. Well, if it doesnt have a blue nametag..shoot it. Im sorry but this is unnacceptable for a mod that calls itself reality.

And on that note, the reason most squads stayed together in battle was to not only maximize and combine firepower but to avoid friendly fire incidents. To remove all nametags would mean better teamwork which is something you all said you are striving for. No nametags would make squads band together and move as one.

Secondly, its the radio traffic. Theres too much of it. "Enemy infantry spotted x10". Shaddup already! Add that to the presence of the minimap and realism is gone. PR should remove ALL radio traffic comms and instead keep only those comms that are shouted (i.e. heard when close to someone). The reason for this is immersion. BF2 truly has awesome subtle environmental sound effects. You cant hear them because of all the blabbering.

Imagine running around in Karkand with no comms blaring all over..just having to hone in on gunfire and trying to discern which weps are being fired, where they are coming from, what area they are shooting at, and who is firing more (more means more friendlies or enemies). Then imagine trying to hook up with a friendly while moving towards that firefight. Again, no BS comms and minimap.

This would intensify the battle experience and make one feel more isolated in a larger town when alone. Again, it would force teamwork and squad cohesion.

If these two things were changed, teamwork would go way up. If Im being honest, I think there is a fear that the mod is being tailored to garner many more players at the expense of realism. Its sacrificing its core for mass appeal, for awards, for votes on some site. That aside, nametags need to die a horrible death and radio comms need to as well.
Last edited by OverwatchX on 2006-01-02 00:53, edited 1 time in total.
Armand61685
Posts: 427
Joined: 2005-05-06 09:14

Post by Armand61685 »

JohnDoeGamer wrote:If I may wade in here with a point on realism. Im one of the realism at-all-cost nuts.

Ive been playing the PRMM and really like the direction the mod is heading. There are two main issues that totally wreck the realism factor. 2 things that keep this game too close to the vanilla BF2. Perhaps these have already been discussed to death...in fact Im sure they have. Nonetheless, I want to voice them again.

One is nametags. Youre halfway there having removed them from enemy targets. They need to come off of friendlies unless that friendly is right on top of you. Its a buzzkiller to see friendly nametags so far out. Its like one doesnt even have to try to ID a target as friend or foe (something that adds to the battle strain)...the computer does it for you. Well, if it doesnt have a blue nametag..shoot it. Im sorry but this is unnacceptable for a mod that calls itself reality.

And on that note, the reason most squads stayed together in battle was to not only maximize and combine firepower but to avoid friendly fire incidents. To remove all nametags would mean better teamwork which is something you all said you are striving for. No nametags would make squads band together and move as one.

Secondly, its the radio traffic. Theres too much of it. "Enemy infantry spotted x10". Shaddup already! Add that to the presence of the minimap and realism is gone. PR should remove ALL radio traffic comms and instead keep only those comms that are shouted (i.e. heard when close to someone). The reason for this is immersion. BF2 truly has awesome subtle environmental sound effects. You cant hear them because of all the blabbering.

Imagine running around in Karkand with no comms blaring all over..just having to hone in on gunfire and trying to discern which weps are being fired, where they are coming from, what area they are shooting at, and who is firing more (more means more friendlies or enemies). Then imagine trying to hook up with a friendly while moving towards that firefight. Again, no BS comms and minimap.

This would intensify the battle experience and make one feel more isolated in a larger town when alone. Again, it would force teamwork and squad cohesion.

If these two things were changed, teamwork would go way up. If Im being honest, I think there is a fear that the mod is being tailored to garner many more players at the expense of realism. Its sacrificing its core for mass appeal, for awards, for votes on some site. That aside, nametags need to die a horrible death and radio comms need to as well.
Bravo and very well articulated. I especially share your concern as you pointed out in your last paragraph.
My PR ingame name is Pvt.Nouri.
NikovK
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 1616
Joined: 2005-10-28 09:56

Post by NikovK »

I'm all for spotting not extending beyond a verbal statement and a pip on the squad leader's map, although the waypoint system is powerful and matches the whole "laptop warrior" concept the Army is pushing for... What I really want to see is Voip being projected from the player to the enviroment, not player to player. Having to whisper warnings back to the squad because of MEC in the area would completely and totally rock, and we'd be able to communicate with local troops outside of our squads. We may have to modify the cross-team comm, however, so that they hear us babbling a chopped-up version of our transmission instead of plain English.

Isay manay rowingthay enadegray!
Mapper of Road to Kyongan'Ni and Hills of Hamgyong;
Genius behind many Really Stupid Ideas, and some Decent Ones.

Image
Beckwith
Posts: 1341
Joined: 2005-03-25 17:00

Post by Beckwith »

For the 1,000,000,000, time nametags are a server side option. They arent controlled in the mod. :roll:

:d uh: :razz:
Image

Image
OverwatchX
Posts: 258
Joined: 2005-07-10 20:53

Post by OverwatchX »

'[R-PUB wrote:Beckwith']For the 1,000,000,000, time nametags are a server side option. They arent controlled in the mod. :roll:

:d uh: :razz:
Great. Dandy. Splendid.

For the 1,000,000,000 they suck!

Why cant I vent about them and try to convince those server operators or whomever to turn the lame things off?

Is this something that the mod could force off regardless of the server setting? I dont want to start a tit-for-tat argument on them. I just want the stupid things gone for good. The servers I'ved played PRMM have them on. Its lame.
DEDMON5811
Posts: 867
Joined: 2005-11-20 06:45

Post by DEDMON5811 »

Nametags are a server side option???

If so I will ask fritz to turn them off They are so annoying and make it too dame easy to spot enemy.

I agree with eveything that Johndoe stated in his post above.
Image
Necro
Posts: 2
Joined: 2006-01-02 02:39

Post by Necro »

it's a choice. realism (heavily) gets realism nuts like us but will NEVER be "world famous"

look at hostile intent...redorchestra...insurgency (hl1/ut2k4/hl2)

theyre heavy on realism and they have a solid fanbase but not huge amounts you see in other games (cs/ns/dod for example)

personally i love heavy realism and im all for it!
DEDMON5811
Posts: 867
Joined: 2005-11-20 06:45

Post by DEDMON5811 »

Well I hope that Prmm continues to be the reality based game it has been. I would like to see a little more added to it but Its good to go!.

I also understand that no mod or game for that matter can meet everyones wishes But I hope that prmm continues to stay at the mature serious gamer level that it is.
Image
Noetheinner
Posts: 370
Joined: 2005-10-30 18:51

Post by Noetheinner »

JohnDoeGamer wrote:If I may wade in here with a point on realism. Im one of the realism at-all-cost nuts.

Ive been playing the PRMM and really like the direction the mod is heading. There are two main issues that totally wreck the realism factor. 2 things that keep this game too close to the vanilla BF2. Perhaps these have already been discussed to death...in fact Im sure they have. Nonetheless, I want to voice them again.

One is nametags. Youre halfway there having removed them from enemy targets. They need to come off of friendlies unless that friendly is right on top of you. Its a buzzkiller to see friendly nametags so far out. Its like one doesnt even have to try to ID a target as friend or foe (something that adds to the battle strain)...the computer does it for you. Well, if it doesnt have a blue nametag..shoot it. Im sorry but this is unnacceptable for a mod that calls itself reality.

And on that note, the reason most squads stayed together in battle was to not only maximize and combine firepower but to avoid friendly fire incidents. To remove all nametags would mean better teamwork which is something you all said you are striving for. No nametags would make squads band together and move as one.

Secondly, its the radio traffic. Theres too much of it. "Enemy infantry spotted x10". Shaddup already! Add that to the presence of the minimap and realism is gone. PR should remove ALL radio traffic comms and instead keep only those comms that are shouted (i.e. heard when close to someone). The reason for this is immersion. BF2 truly has awesome subtle environmental sound effects. You cant hear them because of all the blabbering.

Imagine running around in Karkand with no comms blaring all over..just having to hone in on gunfire and trying to discern which weps are being fired, where they are coming from, what area they are shooting at, and who is firing more (more means more friendlies or enemies). Then imagine trying to hook up with a friendly while moving towards that firefight. Again, no BS comms and minimap.

This would intensify the battle experience and make one feel more isolated in a larger town when alone. Again, it would force teamwork and squad cohesion.

If these two things were changed, teamwork would go way up. If Im being honest, I think there is a fear that the mod is being tailored to garner many more players at the expense of realism. Its sacrificing its core for mass appeal, for awards, for votes on some site. That aside, nametags need to die a horrible death and radio comms need to as well.
You know, the enemy spotted thing and local shouts really goes outta the window when you get Teamspeak going.

If you kill nametags, do you kill the green/blue dot on the minimap too?

As much as I can see where you are coming from (I've came from there too), there's a line that has to be drawn where realism bows to realistic gameplay. I mean, how can a computer realisticly make it easier to pick up movement at the edges of your vision like in real life? In real life the comms are always a mess. In real life you don't have a magic ammo pack or health pack or magic paddles.

About honing in on gunfire, most people have either a 2 speaker system or headphones. It's easy to see if it's coming from left or right, but there's not real 3D sound like in real life. America's Army I'd say is uber realism, and it's not all that great. There's just something about BF2 in combo with PRMM, soon to be PR, that just hits me great where it's at. I know there will be more added, some taken away, but I don't want to end up with just a rifle in my hands and nothing else on my screen.

Just how I feel.
The Huey guy
Image
Beckwith
Posts: 1341
Joined: 2005-03-25 17:00

Post by Beckwith »

Noetheinner wrote:If you kill nametags, do you kill the green/blue dot on the minimap too?
No. You go back to the way it was in BF42, no 3D map just the minimap
Image

Image
Hitperson
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 6733
Joined: 2005-11-08 08:09

Post by Hitperson »

JohnDoeGamer wrote: Secondly, its the radio traffic. Theres too much of it. "Enemy infantry spotted x10". Shaddup already! Add that to the presence of the minimap and realism is gone. PR should remove ALL radio traffic comms and instead keep only those comms that are shouted (i.e. heard when close to someone). The reason for this is immersion. BF2 truly has awesome subtle environmental sound effects. You cant hear them because of all the blabbering.

i agree but i believe that radio's should be limited to the squad leaders/designated radio personel.
Image
Harrod200:"Fire.exe has committed an illegal operation and has been shut down"
Raniak : "Warning: May crash if fired upon."
M4sherman: "like peter pan but with tanks"
[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 (on sim tower) "It truly was the game of my childhood and has led to me getting my degree in industrial engineering."
DEDMON5811
Posts: 867
Joined: 2005-11-20 06:45

Post by DEDMON5811 »

Ok so I talk to fritz and checked the bf2 community. Apparently removing nametags is something that would have to be modded. There is no support on a server side to remove them. You would have to mod the files. So is this something that can be done??
Image
Hitperson
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 6733
Joined: 2005-11-08 08:09

Post by Hitperson »

if it is then do it for gods sake.
Image
Harrod200:"Fire.exe has committed an illegal operation and has been shut down"
Raniak : "Warning: May crash if fired upon."
M4sherman: "like peter pan but with tanks"
[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 (on sim tower) "It truly was the game of my childhood and has led to me getting my degree in industrial engineering."
Hitperson
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 6733
Joined: 2005-11-08 08:09

Post by Hitperson »

also take off the stupid friend ly fire damamge switches shooting someone doesn't hurt you!!!
Image
Harrod200:"Fire.exe has committed an illegal operation and has been shut down"
Raniak : "Warning: May crash if fired upon."
M4sherman: "like peter pan but with tanks"
[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 (on sim tower) "It truly was the game of my childhood and has led to me getting my degree in industrial engineering."
OverwatchX
Posts: 258
Joined: 2005-07-10 20:53

Post by OverwatchX »

Many months ago, I was one of those who started a thread calling for the development and addition of a Radio Operator class. I would think that would work nicely.

Because the constant radio chatter is so annoying, I once modified my BF2 files and removed all radio comms...leaving in only shouted comms (the ones the game uses when you are close to someone). I played a LAN game (because punkbuster didnt allow me to use it on a server) and it was SOOOO nice and immersive. The BF2 envronmental sound effects in the game are sweet. Not to mention that the hunt really began when we had to search for each other and stick together without all the minimap, HUD and players dots onscreen.

Now, regarding the never-ending debate between realism over gameplay. Those realism nuts like me know that this is a computer game, that we will respawn, that we cant feel pain when our player gets shot (yeah..its true - trust me on that), that we know there will be sacrifices inherrant to a computer simulation.

For example, respawning. Is it realistic for me to respawn? Well, no. But I understand that all I am doing is playing different soldiers each time from the reinforcement pool. This represents soldiers directed by me, not me personally. I'm going to stop here. Because I dont want to go on and on on this debate. I will say that simple, basic things can be done that dont affect gameplay but enhance it from a realism, squad cohesion, and immersion factor.

Furthermore, I dont think you can compare America's Army to BF2. AA is a squad simulator. You are that soldier in that squad and sit out and observe when wacked. BF2 is a battle simulator. Your respawn represents another soldier on the battlefield (reinforcements or whatever). This is not rocket science.

Dots on a map, minimaps, nametags hovering over someone's character at 100 yards, radio chatter that causes blood to pour out of my ears and the enemy's real time position on map (like I've tagged him with a some GPS device and can track his every move) have got to go.

With the way some of you want this mod (it seems), it would be more appropriate to rework the ingame soldiers models so that they have a weapon in one hand and an open laptop in the other. Then add cybernetic implants to instantly relay to everyone else's laptops the exact location of an enemy soldier.

Let me just make a short list of those things I think should be in a reality mod.

1) No enemy nametags - period.
2) Friendly nametags for those soldiers who are within 5 feet of you. This simulates recognizing their face.
3) All Radio chatter removed unless you are in a radio operator class
4) No minimap and no dots.
5) Class limitations (no squads full of medics, snipers, ATs, or SAWs).
6) Players being forced into squads at game start. No lone wolfs.

You want immersion, squad cohesion and teamwork? I do.

You want a feeling a being alone, vulnerable, and harder to identify friend or foe before you pull that trigger when you stray from friendlies and dont practice teamwork? I do.
Last edited by OverwatchX on 2006-01-03 06:49, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply

Return to “PR:BF2 Suggestions”