Project Reality Forums

Considering that on the most busy of nights, we might, *might* have 32 players on a server, this is simply too far fetched to be feasible. With specific rank requirements, tactics, limitations, clear-cut roles for certain members, specific squad compositions, and so forth.. it's not going to happen, in my opinion, until the mod has a large influx of players to support it.

I've been playing all day today, and no less than four people said something along the lines of "fuck this mod" due to various difficulties they were unprepared for. Sure, we don't want those type of players anyways, and it's good they gave up rather than drag everyone else down.. but regardless, thats four people who won't be a part of the community. Just a minor example.

This is not the kind of thing that is going to draw players. Ladders and leagues and whatnot do attract some attention, but by the same token, a lot of players do not like it. This will drive people away as well, and to claim it wouldn't is sheer fallacy. I know many tactics-oriented players (my cousin comes to mind) whom really like the normal, "get together and play surgically with like-minded individuals" style, without the competitive baggage along with it.

This is the first dissenting opinion, and thus I'm sure I'll get hammered for it. However, I personally do not feel like the PRMM community is ready for this - nor do I feel it will it be in the near future.

ir0nside wrote:Considering that on the most busy of nights, we might, *might* have 32 players on a server, this is simply too far fetched to be feasible. With specific rank requirements, tactics, limitations, clear-cut roles for certain members, specific squad compositions, and so forth.. it's not going to happen, in my opinion, until the mod has a large influx of players to support it.

I've been playing all day today, and no less than four people said something along the lines of "fuck this mod" due to various difficulties they were unprepared for. Sure, we don't want those type of players anyways, and it's good they gave up rather than drag everyone else down.. but regardless, thats four people who won't be a part of the community. Just a minor example.

This is not the kind of thing that is going to draw players. Ladders and leagues and whatnot do attract some attention, but by the same token, a lot of players do not like it. This will drive people away as well, and to claim it wouldn't is sheer fallacy. I know many tactics-oriented players (my cousin comes to mind) whom really like the normal, "get together and play surgically with like-minded individuals" style, without the competitive baggage along with it.

This is the first dissenting opinion, and thus I'm sure I'll get hammered for it. However, I personally do not feel like the PRMM community is ready for this - nor do I feel it will it be in the near future.

Of course it's not ready for it yet. I'm proposing this as a future project or something that we can start off small for right now, and train officiers (squad leaders) so they can train people under them. This is just planning and brainstorming.

In response to ironside.

Assuming doesn't help anyone. This idea has been done before in Red Orchestra and the pubs were always full. While the match days were overloaded with people trying to get in. You can't predict the future by just what you saw that day. And playing in a league or just in pubs is totally optional. The goal of the mod is to be realistic, why not supplement it with good realistic type play instead of everyone lonegunning like in pubs? I see where you're coming from but don't try and spoil it before it is even tested with this mod. If we test it and it works for people that likes it, theres no loss for people that take the game less serious. But if we test it and things dont fly, people that like realism are SOL. So maybe try and see it where we are coming from and just give it a try. Just because a scheduled time is assigned weekly doesn't mean people wont play during the week. If you have any supporting evidence of this please deliver.

visaya wrote:In response to ironside.

Assuming doesn't help anyone. This idea has been done before in Red Orchestra and the pubs were always full. While the match days were overloaded with people trying to get in. You can't predict the future by just what you saw that day. And playing in a league or just in pubs is totally optional. The goal of the mod is to be realistic, why not supplement it with good realistic type play instead of everyone lonegunning like in pubs? I see where you're coming from but don't try and spoil it before it is even tested with this mod. If we test it and it works for people that likes it, theres no loss for people that take the game less serious. But if we test it and things dont fly, people that like realism are SOL. So maybe try and see it where we are coming from and just give it a try. Just because a scheduled time is assigned weekly doesn't mean people wont play during the week. If you have any supporting evidence of this please deliver.

Maybe you don't understand what I'm trying to explain, but I'll do my best.

Red Orchestra had a huge playerbase. It was a highly respected and well known modification, and it had even won awards in established circles for being the most outstanding modification of it's time. Of course their leagues and whatnot would be successful, because the playerbase was large enough to accomodate those whom are interested in that, without shunning those whom weren't.

If you have 50 total players on average, and a super-organized, predefined-roles etc etc league pops up, you may very well divide the community before it has had a chance to bloom.

There is no "supporting evidence", merely common sense.

Like I said, I am the only dissenting opinion - I feel that the community is not ready. I feel that at an early stage (Before the mod is highly known and we have more than 6 servers, only *one* being populated, which *might* have 4-32 players or so 85% of the time).

"The goal of the mod is to be realistic, why not supplement it with good realistic type play instead of everyone lonegunning like in pubs"

Think of it as a seperation from church and state. PRMM is a mod, not a league, or a big brother which should endorse a specific style of play. If that occurs, people will become ostracized, and leave the community entirely. The mod is what it is - the farther it goes, the more realistic it will become - and if certain servers (usually clan servers) feel the need to implement rules for their playerbases and such which force rigid, militant gameplay, so be it - the mod will most certainly accomodate that, moreso than any other! However, to try and engulf the entire community under the guide of what "the mod" needs, is really silly.

The "mod" is just that, the "mod". If an league wants to start up, that is fine and dandy. However, based on what I've read here and discussed with certain people, I feel like it is leaning more towards a "the mod should take this route" attitude, rather than "we want to start an organized military league up" stance.

It's merely my opinion. It's not an attack on PRMM. If all you want to hear is praise, well, I'm sorry. That's not healthy for the community either.

This league will benefit the mod and the community as well as bring more players to it. When people see a realism mod advertised and see a couple things they like about it, they download it and want to play it. Perhaps they will like some of the features but then they realize - "hey im playing with 3 other people in this server so I'm going to leave. This is boring." But if they see league play available, they might check it out and see what it is like to play in a 32 v 32 environment, which is totally possible. There are hundreds of people that play this mod, it wouldn't be difficult to get 64 on at the same time. If new players would experience it in an action packed game, they would like it better. The goal is to attract players not scare them away. And with this environment, we would be able to test the mod on a full scale and help prioritize the features in the next update.

The amount of players in a pub daily does not reflect how many people really enjoy this mod. Establishing a league like this early allows people to enjoy it more who want to enjoy it in a realistic fashion. From this we can gain popularity and player base through word of mouth. And people would bring elements of teamwork into the pubs, which wouldn't hurt anyones style of play - only benefit it.

ir0nside wrote:Maybe you don't understand what I'm trying to explain, but I'll do my best.

Red Orchestra had a huge playerbase. It was a highly respected and well known modification, and it had even won awards in established circles for being the most outstanding modification of it's time. Of course their leagues and whatnot would be successful, because the playerbase was large enough to accomodate those whom are interested in that, without shunning those whom weren't.

If you have 50 total players on average, and a super-organized, predefined-roles etc etc league pops up, you may very well divide the community before it has had a chance to bloom.

There is no "supporting evidence", merely common sense.

Like I said, I am the only dissenting opinion - I feel that the community is not ready. I feel that at an early stage (Before the mod is highly known and we have more than 6 servers, only *one* being populated, which *might* have 4-32 players or so 85% of the time).

"The goal of the mod is to be realistic, why not supplement it with good realistic type play instead of everyone lonegunning like in pubs"

Think of it as a seperation from church and state. PRMM is a mod, not a league, or a big brother which should endorse a specific style of play. If that occurs, people will become ostracized, and leave the community entirely. The mod is what it is - the farther it goes, the more realistic it will become - and if certain servers (usually clan servers) feel the need to implement rules for their playerbases and such which force rigid, militant gameplay, so be it - the mod will most certainly accomodate that, moreso than any other! However, to try and engulf the entire community under the guide of what "the mod" needs, is really silly.

The "mod" is just that, the "mod". If an league wants to start up, that is fine and dandy. However, based on what I've read here and discussed with certain people, I feel like it is leaning more towards a "the mod should take this route" attitude, rather than "we want to start an organized military league up" stance.

It's merely my opinion. It's not an attack on PRMM. If all you want to hear is praise, well, I'm sorry. That's not healthy for the community either.

Listen naysayer, I never said I want the league to be mandated. I just want to plan for it now and at the same time, attract people who are interested in league play (which a lot of people are) to the mod and at the same time, promote the mod in general. This is a prospect, and we are in the logistical stage of it right now. You will always have your normal servers to play on during the weekdays and fridays and saturday nights when more players flood to this mod.

'[R-PUB wrote:Armand61685']Listen naysayer, I never said I want the league to be mandated. I just want to plan for it now and at the same time, attract people who are interested in league play (which a lot of people are) to the mod and at the same time, promote the mod in general. This is a prospect, and we are in the logistical stage of it right now. You will always have your normal servers to play on during the weekdays and fridays and saturday nights when more players flood to this mod.

I do believe my forum name is ir0nside.

In any case, I've voiced my concerns on specifics which I felt necessary to bring up. If all you wanted was praise, I'm terribly sorry. Criticism is one of the many motivators of success, you'll find.

I'm out.

Thank you for your input ir0nside, I fully respect your opinion and understand the perspective you have taken. I believe it is something which should be setup now in preparation of PR 0.1, however I can't guarantee it's success but I think most of us here are more then willing to give it a shot. If we don't try, we'll never find out. Hopefully you'll still be around the community to find out what results the experiment will produce.

Cheers

req.

Update: We are currently in the process of consructing a simple website to get things completely organized, seeing how the threads are not getting enough attention and support. Cheers.

I am willing to assist where required as a Military advisor.