A comprehensive proposition for solidifying the Project Reality gaming experience

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-18 03:04

To increase realism, teamplay, and realistic battle situational awareness, Visaya and I have thought of a way to organize players together, and create more competitiveness and cohesion amongst Project Reality players. One thing that I have noticed, even when playing PRMM, is that there isn’t enough squad discipline, situational awareness, mental immersion, real life tactics, and a systemic approach to completing objectives (squad level movement). By introducing the league to the Project Reality community, we can increase the frequency of wholesome, realistic gaming sessions that occur within our realm. By this, I mean, we can control and manipulate the way the game is played and perceived in order to attain as much virtual military realism as possible, while at the same time, yielding much satisfaction to Project Reality fans and attractiveness to potential newcomers to the mod. Here us what we propose for our system:
• First, we will explain to you what a “league” in a military game is.
A league is composed of recorded organized matches that make up a season. Furthermore, there will be two teams: premeditated Alpha and Bravo forces (more will be explained about bravo and alpha team later) that will battle each other on 3 map rotations of the same map, each map rotation would be three long rounds (which means, more tickets total) where each round ends when one team runs out of tickets. Two out of three rounds won will win the map rotation, and this map victory will give the winning team 1 point in overall score. When a team wins two out of three rounds, if an admin is available, the map can be changed because the winning team has already scored its overall point. If there is no admin available, the remaining round can be played just for practice and its result will not have an effect on score. A match will be scheduled weekly and will run for the good part of the day (assuming we get enough players around the world).
• Second, Distinguished Alpha and Bravo team: Alpha and Bravo will be distinct teams with its own dedicated members for one full season, and each team will have a private forum. In other words, each respective forum for team Alpha and Team Bravo will be mutually locked from opposing combatants on the project reality website’s forum section (Visaya and I will discuss the creation of these special forums later). Each team will simulate an organized army for the season, so that players may learn their superiors and comrades’ modus operandi and become familiar with their respective team’s method of management and overall strategic and tactical mentality. Players may not switch sides or share classified information with the other team until the season is over.
• Chain of command and squad composition: In our system of military simulation. We will strictly emphasize military chain of command. Condensed, of course, for the intents and purposes of this mod. Our proposed ranks are as follow:
1) Platoon leader: with the rank of lieutenant will be in CHARGE of his platoon under him and will oversee the battle and ensure its success by means of strategic commands, advice, and communicating and coordinating between the team’s squads. Moreover, the platoon leader will direct the overall combat of the team. On this note, the platoon leader, or lieutenant, will give orders to his Non-commissioned officers—squad leaders—who hold ranks as sergeants. The platoon leader will also be responsible for providing strategic information to the squad leaders by virtue of his satellite map and his overall view of the battlefield. Platoon leaders can also call in artillery strikes, ammunitions drops, and relay air-strike requests from squad leaders to jet pilots in the aerial squad to execute air strikes on specific targets pointed out by the squad leaders.
2) Under the Platoon Leader there are Sergeants whose purpose are to act out orders of the Platoon Leader while relaying his instructions to his squad. His squad will move cautiously through the map covering different views while completing objectives sent by the Platoon Leader. The squad leader – with a rank of sergeant is supposed to keep order and cohesion in his squad to carry out tasks. The squad leader is also used to communicate to his commander with requests including air or artillery strikes. He is also able to request additional squads for assistance if authorized by the lieutenant.
3) Fire team leaders: Within a squad, there will be two corporal ranked fire team leaders that carry out orders from the squad leader and command their rifleman/assault man. These fire team leaders can carry out attacks and organize pincer, hammer and anvil, or suppress and assault tactics amongst each other or just attack as one unit in a focus fire fashion.
4) Riflemen: Are placed under the command of the fire team leader. There are two fire teams, so that means there are two riflemen under the command of separate fire team leaders (corporal). The riflemen bear the rank of private, and can be promoted to private first class if excellent performance is shown.
5) Automatic gunner and Anti-tank soldier will bear the rank of private or private first class, in the same manner as riflemen. The basic use of this entity is to force enemy troops to take cover and reduce the effectiveness of their return fire while friendly troops attack. This increases the likelihood of a successful attack against an enemy position. The squad leader will usually stay by the AR gunner to spot targets and direct combat from his relatively secure location.
6) Navy Corpsmen/Red Crescent Medic: Will bear the class of corporal and will be a part of an auxiliary corpsmen squad that consist of two medics each, and sometimes one of these squads will have a designated engineer. These auxiliary squads follow main rifle squads into battle and provide support on the back lines when friendlies are wounded or disabled. To emphasize, these units are primarily support oriented and should not be engaged in direct frontal assault.
**we need more factual military information on the ranks of vehicle drivers and pilots in order for us to categorize these roles**

• Layout of squads and squad composition in a 64 player game, for a team of 32 players. This setup generally works for kaarkand, mashtur 16 player version, and gulf of oman 16 player version, but can be modified for maps with more vehicles.

Rifle Squads (basic foot infantry which are able to use hummers for transportation/mounted guns)

Squad 1 and 2 Composition

Squad Leader – Sergeant – Assault Class
Fire Team Leader 1– Corporal – Assault Class
Rifleman – Private/Private First Class – Assault Class
Fire Team Leader 2 – Corporal – Assault Class
Rifleman - Private/Private First Class – Assault Class
Automatic Rifleman - Private/Private First Class – Support Class

Squad 3 and 4 Composition

Squad Leader – Sergeant – Assault Class
Fire Team Leader – Corporal – Assault Class
Rifleman – Private/Private First Class – Assault Class
Fire Team Leader 2 – Corporal – Assault Class
Rifleman - Private/Private First Class – Assault Class
Anti Tank – Private/Private First Class – Anti Tank Class

Auxiliary Squad

Squad 5 (offensive)

1 Corpsman – ? Rank – Medic Class
1 Corpsman – ? Rank – Medic Class

Squad 6 (defensive)

1 Corpsman – ? Rank – Medic Class
1 Engineer – ? Rank – Engineer Class

Vehicle Squad (squad 7)

1 Tank Gunner/driver – ? Rank – Special Forces Class
1 Tank Commander/MG/Spotter – ? Rank – Special Forces Class
1 APC Driver/Gunner – ? Rank – Special Forces Class

**The reason for the special forces class is because repairing vehicles on the front lines is unrealistic. And since there is no driver class available, we chose something with no special abilities and with no body armor. The c4 ability is to be disregarded when playing as a vehicle crewmember.

Aerial Squad (replacement for squad 1 or 3 on a map which has helicopters and/or jet. One rifle squad is dropped to compensate for vehicles) **TENTATIVE: Subject to change with different maps. The following setup is with Gulf of Oman in mind.

USMC
2 Attack Helicopter Pilots - Special Forces Class
2 Jet Pilots (2 separate Jets) - Special Forces Class
1 Little Bird Pilot - Special Forces Class
1 goes to Auxiliary squad as Medic or Engineer

MEC
2 Attack Helicopter Pilots - Special Forces Class
2 Jet Pilots (Man 2 seater) - Special Forces Class
1 Jet Pilot (1 seater) - Special Forces Class
1 Transport Chopper Pilot – Medic class, may function in aux. squad when chopper not on call.

Discipline and Squad Movement

Our goal is to create a simulation of military operations between the modern USMC and the hypothetical Middle Eastern Coalition that would take place in the near future. Realistic positions and methodical squad movement will be simulated along with a chain of command that is to be heeded. This type of simulation is only for the serious players who are interested in creating a realistic battle where squads move with their squad leader at all times, and all squad leaders obey their superiors orders. It will take time to learn how to play in the league but the investment in such a system will benefit the PR community greatly, in terms of emphasis in realism and realistic teamwork and in terms of gaining positive attention from the military simulation base. If this system is utilized, and utilized properly, we assure the community that your gaming satisfaction from PR will increase 100 fold. It will also create a fun factor of rivarly between players on this board and a sense of brotherhood of between the people on the same team (alpha or beta) during a season. Incidentally, we proposed this mod to Red Orchestra (modification for UT2004) and it increased player quality and quantity dramatically. If this proposition is favored, we would like to have three forums created on this site as functions for the League.

Thank you for reading, and please consider this proposition. It has been on our minds for a while and we want to do everything to make the PR community grow.

Tether · Post by **Tether** » 2005-12-18 03:09

Excellent idea, I'm all for it.

{GD}Snake13 · Post by **{GD}Snake13** » 2005-12-18 03:52

I don't know if I like the squad compisitions, there should defintly be a corpsman in each squad, not a seperate squad of corpsman

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-18 03:58

{GD}Snake13 wrote:I don't know if I like the squad compisitions, there should defintly be a corpsman in each squad, not a seperate squad of corpsman

That's open to debate! I need further military advice from our military advisors.

DEDMON5811 · Post by **DEDMON5811** » 2005-12-18 04:36

Sign me up! Bludragon,Rg,south,sig215,fritz, and Myself and Cerberus, Would be squad alpha. All your bases belong to us!!

Rg · Post by Rg » 2005-12-18 04:56

DEDMON5811 wrote:Sign me up! Bludragon,Rg,south,sig215,fritz, and Myself and Cerberus, Would be squad alpha. All your bases belong to us!!

lol, we'd be unstoppable.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-18 05:10

Are you sure corpsmen are in the same squad as a firesquad? I thought cerberus posted what a normal usmc squad consists of, and there were no medics/corpsmen there. Plus, you have to realize that squads only have 6 maximum slots, so we would need more assaulters/riflemen in there. I'm not sure yet though, I have to talk to one of the military advisers.

And I am seeking the developers support behind this, with a sticky about this league in this general foru, the aforementioned special forms and maybe even a news post.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-18 05:14

And what visaya and I proposed is something we wish to attain when we get a lot more players. Also, first, we want to get good NCOs to be our basis of the league and to eventually train their subordinates about this league.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-12-18 05:40

'[R-PUB wrote:Armand61685']That's open to debate! I need further military advice from our military advisors.

Navy Hospital Corpsmen assigned to Marine infantry units (Fleet Marine Force Corpsmen, as they are called) and Army medical specialists (MOS 91W) assigned to infantry units are found in a medical platoon at the battalion level. From there they are attached to the maneuver elements, normally one to each platoon (this includes not just the rifle platoons, but also the scout [Army] or STA [Marine] platoon of the battalion).

Not sure if the Marines have a similar program, but the Army has soldiers who receive more advanced first aid training (including intravenous infusion and orotracheal intubation) called Combat Lifesavers. One or more men in each squad may be combat lifesaver trained, and one will carry a comprehensive aid bag. All members of the Army's 75th Ranger Regiment are combat lifesaver certified during their indoctrination / orientation into the unit.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-18 05:48

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']Navy Hospital Corpsmen assigned to Marine infantry units (Fleet Marine Force Corpsmen, as they are called) and Army medical specialists (MOS 91W) assigned to infantry units are found in a medical platoon at the battalion level. From there they are attached to the maneuver elements, normally one to each platoon (this includes not just the rifle platoons, but also the scout [Army] or STA [Marine] platoon of the battalion).

Not sure if the Marines have a similar program, but the Army has soldiers who receive more advanced first aid training (including intravenous infusion and orotracheal intubation) called Combat Lifesavers. One or more men in each squad may be combat lifesaver trained, and one will carry a comprehensive aid bag. All members of the Army's 75th Ranger Regiment are combat lifesaver certified during their indoctrination / orientation into the unit.

I see. And what do you think about our proposition (visaya came over and we both put it together)?

Tether · Post by **Tether** » 2005-12-18 06:05

Same here, spent two campaigns with Total Conflict before they shutdown. Currently playing over at BF2C on a sponsership, must say I would enjoy military sim league utilizing PR.

Looks promising already.

DEDMON5811 · Post by **DEDMON5811** » 2005-12-18 06:26

Well a squad usually consists of 2 or 3 fireteams. Fireteams are a Fireteam leader/rifleman a rifleman, a machine gunner {saw} and a A gunner spare saw barrell and ammo with Rifle

Most Squads are 13 Marines. 1 of with is squad leader. most platoons are 3 squads. sometimes 4. i think platoons are usually 40 strong. 1 platoon sgt 3 squad leaders 9fireteams. something like that

Remember USMC MOTTO.. IMPROVISE, ADAPT, AND OVERCOME!!

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-18 06:54

BluDragon wrote:yea this looks cool, i did a campaign and a half of 21cw and signed up for total war but things was moving too slowly for me there. Thats the only thign about these "leagues", alot of people stop playing most of the time. and then you only see them online playing during the scheduled matches. I like hooking up and playing almost everynight but i dont want to have to be on a schedule for a match everynight. Once a week i could probably handle. But i still enjoy playing for fun and practice alot too.

Ya once a week is what we ask for. And it would be during a saturday day, not night. I'd want to go out at night too. Trust me, this will work! We just need a lot of promotion (at the same time, promotion for PR itself) and enthusiam. Ya of course every night is too much.

DEDMON5811 wrote:Well a squad usually consists of 2 or 3 fireteams. Fireteams are a Fireteam leader/rifleman a rifleman, a machine gunner {saw} and a A gunner spare saw barrell and ammo with Rifle

Most Squads are 13 Marines. 1 of with is squad leader. most platoons are 3 squads. sometimes 4. i think platoons are usually 40 strong. 1 platoon sgt 3 squad leaders 9fireteams. something like that

Remember USMC MOTTO.. IMPROVISE, ADAPT, AND OVERCOME!!

Yea but we have to put it into the terms of 6 man squads which are allowed to us by the bf2 engine at the time.

And blu dragon, league play IS fun!

Post by **requiem** » 2005-12-18 11:18

This has been discussed in the past and we just haven't found time to implement it, so a big thank you for bringing this back up. The PR tournament outline you've given plus input from the community will make for an excellent foundation to start.

The open questions which remain are more related to infrastructure as I believe anything related to squad setup can be fixed from week to week by reflecting on games played.

Servers? The official PR server when patched will remain open for public so it would be great if any clans or teams would like to step up on this one (this way there are also more admins).
Website? We can provide the hosting, forum area, etc. but we'll need a dedicated admin(s) to keep an overview and update necessary items accordingly.
Playdays? I suggest weekends so that more timezones can get involved in the action.

Good idea guys, hopefully a panel of dedicated players are willing to step up and take this from idea to action

Post by **Wolfmaster** » 2005-12-18 11:37

As requiem said, it's been discussed in the past and pretty much forgotten since though it was brought up now and then.

It is a great idea, and if I could help out in any way I'd be more than happy to.

Armand61685 · Post by **Armand61685** » 2005-12-18 20:35

Excelleeent! I'm going to get started on talking to committed people and such. And I will talk to the military advisers on this page to get more info. Do you think we can make this post as a sticky?

And thank you reqiuem for your support, we just want to see PR flourish.

Post by **requiem** » 2005-12-18 20:52

Won't be stickied atm, when the time is right we'll open for business. Wolfmaster & Beckwith had good ideas which I think you should discuss in R-PUB forums. Cheers