Anti Material rifles

[Tannhauser]

The suggestion of Tannhauser is a bit hard.. that kit should have a pistol too. Even with only 2 mags for it! The AM should have 10-15 rounds, depends on the weapon type and magazine type.

Well, you must be right, but for gameplay's sake, AM must not be a n00b magnet like the sniper already is. Without Pistol, and low ammo, a lonely n00b would prefer to steal the sniper. (Like n00bish rocketf*gs usually take the light AT cuz it's got a rifle and more versatile and not the HAT.)

The only solution for a gameplaywise realistic AMR kit, would be to make it's request delay (between each requests) very very long. Also, the fact it takes a very long time to reload would also make it less n00b-attractive and still realistic (Recharging a gargantuan bolt-action rifle takes time).

Such a weapon is a great use for tactical movements in a squad, it needs at least one rifle and medic soldier to cover the AMR with ammo and spotting/healing support. The AMR has a great advantage over the AT when it comes to fast reactions against medium armored ennemies. Tough it is effective against infantry, such a weapon is deadly when it comes to stop armored convoys/squads.
The perfect map for such a weapon would be Kashan and most of the desertic maps of PR and vBF2 as the AMR has great range and works best in open terrain against armor.

[Brummy]

I wanted to suggest a less amount of snipers and pickup snipers because they are misused so badly..

[DarkTalon]

You can do even more damage with the HAT kit. I dont see a problem with AM rifles. If they are used as AM rifles that it

lets put it this way, you get what? 2 H-AT rounds? the reload time is 30+ seconds.

now imagine even TWO mags for an M82 (10 rounds a mag) is the equivalent of 20 H-AT rounds. not to mention it is semi-automatic.

so, we have an armor penitrating long range, high powered scoped rifle with 20+ rounds (unless you want to have a kit with 1 mag) that is semi-auto, so lets put this in a scenario.

10 insurgents are spread out in a field, there are 2 technicals, a spawncar and 7 insurgents patrolling around the field.

H-AT using a very low magnification scope, the operator must aim for the first technical and (assuming he hits it) stay alive for 30 seconds to kill the second technical before it kills him (from the obvious rocket trail) then he must find ammo in order to take out the 8 remaining hostiles.

AM sniper takes a shot at technical engine, kills it, looks towards second technical, point, click, boom, points toward spawncar, boom, takes out the remaining 7 infantry with one shot apiece. all without even unscoping, or for that matter, reloading.

can a SRAW really do that much damage?

[zangoo]

but that is what a am rife is for, so you dont want it cus it does it's job well?

[AnRK]

The AMs wouldn't have a chance in France of penetrating Tank armour though, so they'd serve a very different purpose to a H-AT.

Is there use in PR situations all that realistic though? Could do with hearing from Bob or Kenway or one of the other military buffs on this one.

I wanted to suggest a less amount of snipers and pickup snipers because they are misused so badly..

I'm up for having less snipers, but I reckon if you included this in the right way, you could make them useless as anti-infantry weapons, for example making them as stupidly loud as they probably are in real life, making the kit very slow (think that might be hardcoded though) and not having a side arm or any grenades.

Would be good to get it on a couple of maps instead of a H-AT or something maybe, if the balancing and realism issues fit accordingly.

[Waaah_Wah]

lets put it this way, you get what? 2 H-AT rounds? the reload time is 30+ seconds.

now imagine even TWO mags for an M82 (10 rounds a mag) is the equivalent of 20 H-AT rounds. not to mention it is semi-automatic.

so, we have an armor penitrating long range, high powered scoped rifle with 20+ rounds (unless you want to have a kit with 1 mag) that is semi-auto, so lets put this in a scenario.

10 insurgents are spread out in a field, there are 2 technicals, a spawncar and 7 insurgents patrolling around the field.

H-AT using a very low magnification scope, the operator must aim for the first technical and (assuming he hits it) stay alive for 30 seconds to kill the second technical before it kills him (from the obvious rocket trail) then he must find ammo in order to take out the 8 remaining hostiles.

AM sniper takes a shot at technical engine, kills it, looks towards second technical, point, click, boom, points toward spawncar, boom, takes out the remaining 7 infantry with one shot apiece. all without even unscoping, or for that matter, reloading.

can a SRAW really do that much damage?

The AM shouldnt kill cars in one hit.

Can you kill a whole enemy squad that is staying a bit too close togerther with one AM shot? Can you kill APC's with the AM rifle? Can you kill tanks with the AM rifle?

[Doedel]

Could AM rifles be given a bit of splash damage? Seems to me a giant slug like that exploding on a wall next to me is going to pepper me with stuff. Maybe I'm wrong, though...

Speaking of which, we need moar grenade launchers!

[Hotrod525]

Barett M82A1 can already stop an humer (shooting driver trought windows) helicopter ( shoot in the engine ) and infantry... So what's you're point ? you want dev to make unblowed mortar on map allowing you to make them blown by shootin it ?

[Ninja2dan]

After reading this entire topic, it makes me wonder where some of you guys get your information from? How many of you are actually familiar first-hand with an Anti-Material rifle? I'm not talking about what you have seen in the movies, or played with in other games.

Anti-material (AM) rifles are just that, they are designed to defeat/disable Material. Not Personnel. Not Armor. MATERIAL. There is a huge difference in what these rifles are designed and used for and what several people are suggesting here.

Before I go into further explanation of their real use, I will note a few of the currently used rifles. The US primarily uses the M107 (formerly the M82). Canadian forces are using the McMillan TAC-50. British are using the AW50 (if I remember correctly). Other models are in use by other nations, although many other nations have minimal full-time AM teams. Notice that the majority of AM rifles are chambered for the 12.7mm (.50-caliber) round.

Anyone with a brain knows that a 12.7mm projectile will NOT penetrate heavy and medium armor such as that of an MBT or modern APC. Even the Mk 211 round can't do that. I know because I have test-fired that round into old armor plating with minimal effect. Anti-tank rifles and Anti-material rifles are about as much the same as a Ferrari and a Pinto.

Military forces use the AM rifles for tasks that a normal rifle is ineffective, and calling in an airstrike or artillery strike would be too costly or too risky. These rifles can be used to destroy fuel dumps, communications equipment, crew-served weapon emplacements, and other fragile strategic assets. They can disable unarmored and lightly-armored vehicles, aircraft/helicopters, and can disable the external components of heavier-armored vehicles (such as communications and optic devices). In many cases these rifles are also used for EOD work, as they are quite effective against UXO and mines.

Use of an AM rifle against personnel is possible, but not recommended. In war you will do what you must, but in most cases where the AM rifle is deployed they will have minimal intent on personnel removal. Yes we are allowed to shoot personnel with these rifles even when employing the Mk 211 rounds, the US is one of the nations that hasn't signed the St. Petersburg Declaration.

One of the problems that we have in PR is that currently mines and IED's are not able to be remotely detonated with such a weapon. These objects to not have hitpoints and even if you hit an AT mine directly with artillery, it will not be destroyed in the game. Also, to my knowledge, the models of vehicles in PR do not have detailed hit areas. You can't destroy a cars engine without damage to the rest of the vehicle. You can't destroy tank tracks without damage to the tank. This is "simulated" by random failure of components but it's not constant. Until either of those facts can be resolved, AM rifles will have little purpose in PR.

I'm all for the idea of having AM rifles in a realism mod, but ONLY if they can be implemented correctly. Due to game limitations, this is not yet possible and might not ever be possible. So my opinion is that AM rifles should not be present in PR at this time. That opinion is based on real-world experience with these rifles and not just as a gamer.

[Hotrod525]

After reading this entire topic, it makes me wonder where some of you guys get your information from? How many of you are actually familiar first-hand with an Anti-Material rifle? I'm not talking about what you have seen in the movies, or played with in other games.

Anti-material (AM) rifles are just that, they are designed to defeat/disable Material. Not Personnel. Not Armor. MATERIAL. There is a huge difference in what these rifles are designed and used for and what several people are suggesting here.

Before I go into further explanation of their real use, I will note a few of the currently used rifles. The US primarily uses the M107 (formerly the M82). Canadian forces are using the McMillan TAC-50. British are using the AW50 (if I remember correctly). Other models are in use by other nations, although many other nations have minimal full-time AM teams. Notice that the majority of AM rifles are chambered for the 12.7mm (.50-caliber) round.

Anyone with a brain knows that a 12.7mm projectile will NOT penetrate heavy and medium armor such as that of an MBT or modern APC. Even the Mk 211 round can't do that. I know because I have test-fired that round into old armor plating with minimal effect. Anti-tank rifles and Anti-material rifles are about as much the same as a Ferrari and a Pinto.

Military forces use the AM rifles for tasks that a normal rifle is ineffective, and calling in an airstrike or artillery strike would be too costly or too risky. These rifles can be used to destroy fuel dumps, communications equipment, crew-served weapon emplacements, and other fragile strategic assets. They can disable unarmored and lightly-armored vehicles, aircraft/helicopters, and can disable the external components of heavier-armored vehicles (such as communications and optic devices). In many cases these rifles are also used for EOD work, as they are quite effective against UXO and mines.

Use of an AM rifle against personnel is possible, but not recommended. In war you will do what you must, but in most cases where the AM rifle is deployed they will have minimal intent on personnel removal. Yes we are allowed to shoot personnel with these rifles even when employing the Mk 211 rounds, the US is one of the nations that hasn't signed the St. Petersburg Declaration.

One of the problems that we have in PR is that currently mines and IED's are not able to be remotely detonated with such a weapon. These objects to not have hitpoints and even if you hit an AT mine directly with artillery, it will not be destroyed in the game. Also, to my knowledge, the models of vehicles in PR do not have detailed hit areas. You can't destroy a cars engine without damage to the rest of the vehicle. You can't destroy tank tracks without damage to the tank. This is "simulated" by random failure of components but it's not constant. Until either of those facts can be resolved, AM rifles will have little purpose in PR.

I'm all for the idea of having AM rifles in a realism mod, but ONLY if they can be implemented correctly. Due to game limitations, this is not yet possible and might not ever be possible. So my opinion is that AM rifles should not be present in PR at this time. That opinion is based on real-world experience with these rifles and not just as a gamer.

the XM109 shooting 25x59mm cartridge can... theyre an Crotian sniper too... firing AntiAir round...so much powerfull theyre a pipe going from the cannon to the rear stuck allowing gas to get out from behind

That thing is shooting 20x110mm round...


That thing can pass trought too


Barett Xm109

[Tannhauser]

I'm all for the idea of having AM rifles in a realism mod, but ONLY if they can be implemented correctly. Due to game limitations, this is not yet possible and might not ever be possible. So my opinion is that AM rifles should not be present in PR at this time. That opinion is based on real-world experience with these rifles and not just as a gamer.

But in gameplays mind, it's interesting to have an alternative against choppers, softskin vehicles and ammodumps/rps/fueldumps. It's a better option against chopper countermeasures than the Portable AA launcher.

[Ninja2dan]

the XM109 shooting 25x59mm cartridge can... theyre an Crotian sniper too... firing AntiAir round...so much powerfull theyre a pipe going from the cannon to the rear stuck allowing gas to get out from behind

I am aware of the XM109, and it is not yet in use. Hence the X code, meaning Experimental. It is still under development. It is not capable of anti-tank use, but can defeat or disable light-armor such as older APC's. I have fired this weapon and am familiar with it. I actually was tasked with giving an instructional class on the use of the BORS system.

It is expected that this ammunition can penetrate nearly 40mm (an inch and a half) of armor plating at 500 meters

If you do the math and look at charts, few modern armored vehicles will have such low thickness.

The first rifle in that picture is the Croatian RT-20, which in my opinion is a POS. It is single-shot, has a backblast almost similar to an RPG, and has so many downsides that it makes me laugh.

The second picture showing the NTW-20 is a weapon I am also familiar with, although I have not personally fired it. It is a slightly better weapon than the RT-20, but it is not capable of penetrating heavy armor. It can disable light armor such as the older APC's and jeeps, but nothing that a "modern" military would be using. It makes a great EOD weapon, but I see little use of either in PR.

One of the most important things to think about here is HOW can an anti-material rifle be used accurately and realistically in PR. Based on the lmiitations of the game, I can see no current reason for them to be in PR. That might change in the future but I see little hope of it. And until then, this is a dead topic.

[AnRK]

The stuff you brought up is pretty much my sentiments ninja. The reason I started this thread was to see what future they may have if any, and if so what use they could serve within the constraints of PR.

[77SiCaRiO77]

they can be coded to destroy in one shot static tows and hj8 , and maybe with 3 shots AAA and stingers emplasaments .