Engine noise for Tank/APC gunners

[gazzthompson]

For Recce Vehicles such as the Scimitar it's usually the Vehicle Commander who will dismount, and the driver in PR is really the vehicle commander.

got any sources for that? surely the scimitar has much better optics on board ? hopefully one of the ABA clan can come confirm it(as they are all practically light dragoons IIRC)

[Herbiie]

Is someone really saying that in real combat situation it's a valid tactic to shutdown your engines to go silent?
Or that is advised in modern vehicle combat?
It can go silent IC but I would think it's more to save resources that gaining advantage.

Yes - it is a valid tactic to shut down your engine and go quiet - you can use your weapon systems so there is no reason that you shouldn't. Not sure if it is advised - but it's used.

If your vehicle is almost completely silent, then there is almost no chance of detection via sound - the enemy's supporting infantry won't be able to hear the back up engine over the sound of the nearby friendly vehicles - they will be able to hear the 1,200 Break Horse Power main engine!

There is ofcourse a disadvantage - you're immobile. In PR there's an even bigger disadvantage - your driver is vulnerable.

Waiting quietly and ambushing enemy vehicles is a real life tactic that would be common place when defending an area - there is NO reason WHATSOEVER to change what is happening, yes it makes it harder to find the vehicle - that's the whole point. Or should we take away trees because they also make it harder to see people?

@ Gazz - there are some situations where it's easier to get eyes on from outside the vehicle, the Scimitar (while being a small tank) is pretty big - you're less likely to be spotted if you dismount. I can't find any sources to back me up on this but I shall keep looking

If you have the Army Recruitment DVD then at one point you can see the Commander dismounting the Scimitar to watch the enemy.

[Hitman.2.5]

Is someone really saying that in real combat situation it's a valid tactic to shutdown your engines to go silent?

The whole point of an ambush is not to be noticed so if you don't want to be noticed when ambushing I'm sure your common sense would make you think to make as little noise as possible E.g. turning of the engine like said in previous posts most modern battle tanks have an auxiliary motor/engine or even batteries to maintain sufficient power to the turret to keep it functioning...

Plus the driver moving to the Gunner seat also makes use of that position and gives some form of close protection against inf and sometimes helicopters while maintaining a stable gun platform and when the 50 is not been fired silence.

[Bringerof_D]

it seems no one really pays attention to the posts which could end all of this... i'm going into armored recce myself and from what i've seen so far from recruitment videos, if they dont want to expose the vehicle itself or need to go silent, they will dismount/shut off the engine/do both. vehicles have large batteries that can last them hours, all you whiners be glad in PR it's only a minute. also yes shutting off the main engine is definitely advised in stealth related missions such as ambushes. scouting vehicles have something similar to sonar where they can hear your engine from miles away, with a skilled crew under good conditions they might even pick up on your back up generator.

this tactic is perfectly valid and has been in use since man mounted weapons on vehicles.

[snooggums]

it seems no one really pays attention to the posts which could end all of this... i'm going into armored recce myself and from what i've seen so far from recruitment videos, if they dont want to expose the vehicle itself or need to go silent, they will dismount/shut off the engine/do both. vehicles have large batteries that can last them hours, all you whiners be glad in PR it's only a minute. also yes shutting off the main engine is definitely advised in stealth related missions such as ambushes. scouting vehicles have something similar to sonar where they can hear your engine from miles away, with a skilled crew under good conditions they might even pick up on your back up generator.

this tactic is perfectly valid and has been in use since man mounted weapons on vehicles.

Do they drive 15m, shut off the engines instantaneously and listen for engine noise, hop in and drive 30m, repeat, repeat, repeat.....

Or do they get into a hull down position, turn off engines and wait knowing the enemy is an hour away?

[Herbiie]

Do they drive 15m, shut off the engines instantaneously and listen for engine noise, hop in and drive 30m, repeat, repeat, repeat.....

No. Is there anyway to stop tpeople using that (fairly stupid) tactic without damaging REAL life tactics? No. The only thing i can think of is a SHORT (Very short) warm up time for the driver's seat, symbolising the engine being turned on. Say, 5 seconds?

The tactic is stupid - why should we stop people using tactics that only work against vehicles with no infantry support? Or don't you use infantry support?

Seriously guys simple way to stop that tactic being used is (As a community) to start using vehicles and infantry together. The infantry can go forward and find the enemy armour quietly while you are keeping your tank silent, and then the infantry can take out the driver and you can take out the armour, or you wait, and ambush the vehicle by being silent.

Also How long do you think it takes to shut an engine off? Not that long - about as long as it does in PR - or haven't you noticed that the engine STAYS ON for a few seconds after the driver gets out?

The game is fine as it is. I'm getting kinda fed up with the suggestions that are there because people don't know how to use stuff. Use infantry support. It's helpful.

[Bringerof_D]

Do they drive 15m, shut off the engines instantaneously and listen for engine noise, hop in and drive 30m, repeat, repeat, repeat.....

Or do they get into a hull down position, turn off engines and wait knowing the enemy is an hour away?

well they could if they wanted to but thats tactically stupid anyways in such short range of enemies. if a team chooses to do this then whether or not the scenario plays out realistically is up to whether the enemy had the brains enough to have men covering all angles and to spot this happening and blow the apc/tank to the moon.

i'm not saying it's done, i'm saying it's perfectly realistic that it CAN be. IRL the driver stays in egine's off, we cant do that in game. the tank commander gets out to scout, since the driver also plays the role of tank commander, thats fine. this would also be an analogy for the driver staying in and being ready to start up the engine on a moments notice.

[snooggums]

No. Is there anyway to stop tpeople using that (fairly stupid) tactic without damaging REAL life tactics? No. The only thing i can think of is a SHORT (Very short) warm up time for the driver's seat, symbolising the engine being turned on. Say, 5 seconds?

Warm up time has run into technical problems in the past.

This tactic is actually extremely effective when close to an enemy in rolling hills (such as B3 area of Kashan or anywhere on Kozelsk as a Spandrel. The idea is that you adjust to a spot with the best visibility of where the enemy will pop out, works even better with infantry support than without.

I'm doubtful that a tank commander would hop out of a tank in a real battlefield to listen for nearby enemies while on the move, so I really don't think the tactic is realistic in any sense when the vehicle is started and stopped repeatedly. I have no issue with a parked vehicle with the engines off if it will be off for some time, and maybe having the engine noise continue for a minute or two after stopping would be a better solution while allowing the gunner to stay while the driver is out of the driver seat.

[mat552]

you sure? why you think some tanks use APU on them? or you think energy for turning turret and feed electronics comes from air? yes, there are manual handles for turret control, but you cannot expect same traverse/ aiming speed and accuracy as FCS provides

That argument might carry a bit more weight with me if we actually had an FCS. Right now it's all manual anyway, and the challenger is already painfully slow to turn.

[Herbiie]

Warm up time has run into technical problems in the past.

This tactic is actually extremely effective when close to an enemy in rolling hills (such as B3 area of Kashan or anywhere on Kozelsk as a Spandrel. The idea is that you adjust to a spot with the best visibility of where the enemy will pop out, works even better with infantry support than without.

I'm doubtful that a tank commander would hop out of a tank in a real battlefield to listen for nearby enemies while on the move, so I really don't think the tactic is realistic in any sense when the vehicle is started and stopped repeatedly. I have no issue with a parked vehicle with the engines off if it will be off for some time, and maybe having the engine noise continue for a minute or two after stopping would be a better solution while allowing the gunner to stay while the driver is out of the driver seat.

If the TANK has infantry support then it WILL NOT get ambushed in this way. Tank goes silent, infantry recces the area in front of it for enemy armour, tank either rolls up and takes out armour or falls back as appropriate.

Also - TANK COMMANDERS DO GET OUT OF THE VEHICLE IN REAL LIFE. Also a couple of minutes is ridiculously unrealistic - the engine can be turned off pretty quickly, almost instantaneously. Just live with the tactic and USE YOUR INFANTRY.

It's a problem with the community not using Infantry and Vehicles together not the game system.

[Jaymz]

Adding the engine sound to the gunners won't work because of how vehicle engine sounds work. There'll be really bad phase issues.

[octo-crab]

That argument might carry a bit more weight with me if we actually had an FCS. Right now it's all manual anyway, and the challenger is already painfully slow to turn.

Less than 2 seconds is painfully slow?

@Jaymz, I haven't noticed any bad phase issues with the avenger, then again I haven't been outside of it while its fully crewed.

@Herbiie You telling me you want an infantry squad to walk 3kilometers to the bunkers on kashan so a tank doesn't get ambushed? That will be extremely boring and take forever.

Also, saw this little tidbit of information on wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt, but it said it takes about 10 US gallons of jet fuel to start the abrams tank up.

[Bringerof_D]

Also, saw this little tidbit of information on wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt, but it said it takes about 10 US gallons of jet fuel to start the abrams tank up.

oh...wow. no wonder the gas prices are so high

[Jaymz]

@Jaymz, I haven't noticed any bad phase issues with the avenger, then again I haven't been outside of it while its fully crewed.

It's a completely different sound to that of the engine. I got the impression that people wanted the full on tank engine sound attached to the gunner position.

[billdan]

how about just a 30 sec warm-up period required for the engine to discourage drivers always hopping out of tanks to cut noise?

[Jaymz]

how about just a 30 sec warm-up period required for the engine to discourage drivers always hopping out of tanks to cut noise?

We've tried it for tanks before, there were issues with it.

[Herbiie]

@Herbiie You telling me you want an infantry squad to walk 3kilometers to the bunkers on kashan so a tank doesn't get ambushed? That will be extremely boring and take forever.

A Helicopter could insert the squad close and move in, or you can check the bunkers from long range. Plenty of options.

Stop crying because you don't use teamwork - I very rarely see APCs or tanks using Infantry support or even asking for it.

[octo-crab]

You don't even know who I am and your saying I'm not teamwork oriented. Have you ever played with me? No, so don't go talking shit about people you don't even know.

As for the bit about walking 3km, it was an overstatement, it was more to call attention to the fact that not every problem is solved by working with infantry.

@Jaymz, what's your view on adding a second engine noise to the turret like the avenger? As far as I know, you can never go completely silent. Even if the turret is driven by a battery it will still make noise when it moves around. Take rolling your windows down on your car. Both automatic and manual windows make noise and that's using a tiny little motor to power that.

[Herbiie]

You don't even know who I am and your saying I'm not teamwork oriented. Have you ever played with me? No, so don't go talking shit about people you don't even know.

As for the bit about walking 3km, it was an overstatement, it was more to call attention to the fact that not every problem is solved by working with infantry.

Not every problem - but this one IS.

Your infantry should find the enemy armour if you're worried there is one about.

Also, there's no need to get angry - I've taken what you've been saying and from you arguing against using teamwork to mean that you don't use teamwork.