Project reality criticism

[Deer]

I dont understand whats so big deal when noob asks about some simple things, its easy to tell him how it goes but some ppl gets mad for it.

[DesmoLocke]

I googled "project realty training" and got several youtube vids, a link to our forums of a collection of vids, and several other things

I would like to see the Guide section updated to include a video series like the player guides posted by dbzao for 0.5.

[Cassius]

The mod isnt for everyone, just like about any game isnt for everyone. The same can be said for ARMA and Operation flashpoint, however who prefers a gameplay like in nilla or counterstrike probably wont toutch these games.
If all you play is straightforward shooters about every other genre has a steep learning curve compared to the mentioned games.

I and many others were sorely dissapointed about the gameplay of BF2.
The reason this mod exists is that previews videos and other material released by EA painted the game as something it is not.

I feel the mod quite successfully blends the simulation feel of ARMA or operation flashpoint, with the accessability and playability of BF2, it feels like a simulation, but vehicles are still easily controllable with a bit of practice and you get to respawn after you die.
I know of no other game which even attempted such a blend.

-The real world is overrated.

you dont shed a good light on norway XD .

[Saobh]

I dont understand whats so big deal when noob asks about some simple things, its easy to tell him how it goes but some ppl gets mad for it.

I have a theory about that one: Its like the when you have Republicans bashing gay rights when they themselves where closet homosexuals. Thus people who bash newbies are in fact themselves bigger noobs but just can't deal with it

[and no this is not to be read literally ---> see I put a smiley ]

[goguapsy]

i remember first time I played as insurgent.
my question was:
"where do I get special weapons?"
the answer
"go read the manual"
the response
"but I already read the manual!"
"well then, read it again!"

of course i'm paraphrasing the last 2 lines, but when I play a game i feel very good when I explain something to newcomers. I am a good SL (ive been told) therefore I now a lot of stuff (and still learn more everyday i played - saturday was the first day i lazed a target for air strike. there is no more thrilling moment then screaming SPOT ON!! on team chat and see the explosion take out the tank and the logistics truck in a valey in Qinglin (typo). since then I cant stop lazing). Also something else I learned is the importance of Air/Armor support. Kashan is the best example.

I NEED CAS! DO WE HAVE IT?!
I NEED ARMOR SUPPORT! I NEED YOU TO SHOOT THE **** OUT OF THE SOUTH BUNKER!

also in Jabal al Burj, my squad's arse was saved by Wildfire and his crewmate, which took down an APC. Their tracks were damaged but if it wasn't for him my squad would've never taken out the FOB in South Bridge and capture it CP. I consider that a winning move for my whole team, considering we won the game 3 tickets to 0 (we were americans). If Wildfire wasn't there, that APC would've probably taken out all my 6 men squad (therefore already making as lose 6 tickets, which was needed for the winning of 3-0 tickets). Also not considering we took down the FOB and a MEC sqd in South Bridge, togheter with an AA.
Also, my Machinnegunner, as he said, "raped" the enemy squad, which isn't a lie: who took down 3 out of 6 guys, I took down another one I believe, and then I asked KEEP SHOOTING THE HELL OUT OF THAT GUY! SUPPRESSING FIRE!! and I ran and dropped an Incendiary right in the middle of the FOB. That moment was perfect. I feel so proud.

Therefore, CONGRATULATIONS PEOPLE THAT WERE PLAYING IN MY SQUAD THAT DAY, VIRIGINA *MIXED*, SATURDAY I believe, around 6pm BRAZIL's Time (GMT -3:00).


What I mean with this is, you can't learn everything from the Manual, you have to see youtube videos and learn in-game (i learned lazing from a youtube vid.. lazing moving targets was fundamental later in some other round, so Kudos to who did that vid!). Of course, the manual is the best basics ever. Though I think a more infantry-men related manual would be more important, supposing that new players should be infantrymen and not drivers/pilots/SLs or even commanders. To play PR you need some commitment. I don't like clans because of the Commitment level. I play to have fun, I play it realistically (follow my bloody orders I'm the SL). It is true, PR isn't for everyone. But it definitively is worth playing, since it's a whole new game within just an average game (lots of games you can play any role as in vBF2).

And when you learn how to play the game, you will have more laughs than ever, thanks to the teamwork involved: what's funnier, walk around vBF2 and see something funny or make your whole squad witness something random? or even doing random stuff in insurgency?

I remember I was playing Korengal Valley. Someone suggested (I believe it was RedBombCar) that we should change the name to Fail Sqd, as everywhere we went unseen (VERY GOOD POSITIONS!) we ran into enemys. Always. then i made this squad and i never had so much fun in any computer game ever: especially when we ate jellybeans from US AID, and some other stuff like RedBombCar getting an anti-air (we were americans, insurgents dont have choppers...) and naming it RPD (Rocket Propelled Di.do).

Cheers to this squad too!





And Project Reality is Teamwork Like No Other.
Teamwork is redefined in PR. That's the thing about it. Lonewolves would never have fun in PR (except insurgents, but the funniest things still happen in groups... ie. dancing around a bomb car blasting it's stereo... literally XD - i'm still to witness that though > )

[[FC]Freddie]

I'm new and I have been able to find out everything I have been looking for either by reading the manual, watching youtube instructionals (some good ones, might be worth placing a link) or asking in the forums or players in my squad.

If you want to play and learn PR there is no excuse for not being able to find everything you need except that you are too lazy to make the effort.

[Gunner]

What is this 'real world' ?

No one told me about this ...

Read the manual LOL ROFLMAO

[rampo]

Read the manual. Anything that has a manual has it for a reason. We've all read it.

I didn't and i didn't go to a training server when i began playing and im still awesome

[NYgurkha]

When i first read that criticism part on the wiki, i thought it was some sort of troll that put it there

[Herbiie]

Read the manual. Anything that has a manual has it for a reason. We've all read it.

I didn't.

I learnt the game by joining a squad with some helpful people in it.

I agree with this statement.

When a new Player asks a question just Answer it, it makes the community more helpful and helps change "Noobs" into proper players if you are answering their questions from the very start.

It doesn't take very long.

Also, if I were a new Player, and got given a load of youtube links, i would just think "Fuckles it cba just for a mod" and go play a different game.

Gees guys just help them out!

[=Toasted=]

Freddie;1125205']I'm new and I have been able to find out everything I have been looking for either by reading the manual, watching youtube instructionals (some good ones, might be worth placing a link) or asking in the forums or players in my squad.

If you want to play and learn PR there is no excuse for not being able to find everything you need except that you are too lazy to make the effort.

I am also a new player, and I agree with this statement 100%.

[Maverick]

You know what, we read the manual, what makes them so special?

[HughJass]

I never read the manual before joining in, as it was just a daunting task for me at the time.

who willingly wants to read a manual before joining in really? no one does.

a huge part of game development is accessibility. its easy to say "hey, this game has a steep learning curve!" it is like you have to take a risk to play the game.. nobody wants that.

every game has a learning curve to it, the way the game presents this knowledge is key. since PR is a mod, we have some limits on to how we can do this... one is a manual but another is something in the lines of a video tutorial.

the biggest task for 1.0 is having a good video tutorial that will introduce the game and its mechanics to the crowd.

[Cheesygoodness]

Ya know. This reminds me of something thats been around for ages.

Way back in the ol' text based game ages. (Yes I'm aware of how old that is.) We had games that were 'IC' and 'OOC'. And when new players joined those games and had questions the most common answer was 'Find out ICly'. Now for anyone not in the know IC means In character IE what the person your playing knows. While OOC means out of character which is what you the person playing knows.

For minor stuff people would ask that. It irritated me. "How do I buy a clone ingame?" "Find out ICLY!" Well without a clone ingame you die and you have to make a new account. Its one thing for non-critical stuff. Its quite another for standard information that takes all of two seconds to explain.

I've never read the PR manual. Not once. As people that have played with me will note. I do -NOT- get into choppers, planes, or armored vehicles. I do the simplest stuff ingame and that is infantry. If I wanted to fly or drive I'd read it.

Ask yourself this. You just downloaded a mod called Project Funtime. During the install after an hour or so download you see a manual file. Now maybe your friends told you about it or you were just intrigued. The manual opens alright and its MASSIVE by internet standards. You just spent an hour and a half downloading it on a whim. You don't even know if it looks good cause you haven't tried it out. So you decide to spend another ten minutes reading the manual and understanding it right? That's what everyone did isn't it? Just so a few players ingame wouldn't be annoyed when you asked why deviation was bad or holding 'T' is how to get special kits.

Read the manual is understandable for some things but everyone should be able to at least TRY something before they read the manual about it. Whats the point of reading a manual for a game with no draw?

That is the reason it is like that and likely true as PR has only a small playerbase willing to enjoy teaching and far to many with the attitude of 'RTFM' which its quite sad that several people reading this will know what that means.

Though that is not a criticism of the makers of PR. Its a criticism of the playerbase. It takes all of two minutes to explain to someone how to be an effective infantrymen and they will end up as good players. Better players then a manual will ever produce.

Oh the joys of human interaction. God forbid that be the best way to teach people. Though my hats off to the R-com people who have done training days. Good to know some people can see it. Along with everyone else that still tries.

I would like to note. This is going to have about the same effect on the discussion as this thread in general is going to have to change it. But what the hell. I got to make people read my manual.

[Dunehunter]

The problem is that it's understandable for people to be daunted by the size of the manual, and to try to find out things "for themselves". To be honest, back when I started playing PR in .4, I did pretty much the same thing, though I played at first with the people who introduced me to PR, who kind of showed me around. And, frankly, back then, there was simply way less that you needed to know, as PR was still similar-ish to BF2v. But when you start playing PR now, there are just so many changes that it'll take a while for the other players to explain everything. Nevermind that after the 20th time explaining what the shovel is for gets kind of tedious

[RHYS4190]

If the manual is not working, then it time the mod tried some thing new.

Why not film a professional training video, I can do it i have experience training people to Play PR, but im still trying to work out how you film it.

As far as i can tell PR does not support battle recorder.

[Jevski]

One thing ive noticed, in this thread is that those who didnt read the manual are the same who claim that the other "veterans" didnt read it either.

If we should take the time to explain the basics to you, why shouldnt you take the time to read the manual?

The harder the work, the better the reward.

PS: Yes I did read the manual before playing.

[joethepro36]

Oh come on, people complaining of the project reality learning curve?! Jesus, they haven't played any of the paradox games like victoria or hearts of iron.

I learnt how to play pr in about a day in simpler times (.5). Now it's a lot harder with way more vehicles involved. IMO the learning time (time taken to become proficent), taking into account all assets is about 10 hours provided you have a good teacher/teammates. I spend about 1.5 hours every month or so tutoring some random guy on a training server who asks for help. I'll go through all the huds and weapon systems, most people are pretty good but unfamiliar. It really isn't hard per se but more about gaining knowledge and experience. Someone who knows what they are doing and executes it properly will have a damned good chance of beating super1337kiddie/me.

Something I've noticed is the unforgiving nature of the mod at times. A teamwork oriented team on say, kashan will not just crush, but annihilate opposing forces. The greatest example of this is going through a "blitzkrieg", where the advance is the entire team with CAS/fighter patrolling ahead and blasting the next cp into oblivion followed by an armoured spearhead of tanks into turn followed by mech inf and anti air. That my friends, I've yet to see beaten by an opposing team. A new player on the opposing team is going to have a bad time.

And saying pr is worse because of a steeper learning curve is like complaining when learning how to drive a car, of course it's difficult to start off, but when you get past that you find something wonderful.

[Herbiie]

provided you have a good teacher/teammates.

That's the point, very few people actually want to help out new players.

I would, and a few others (like yourself) Would, but apart from that most players are just so lazy they can't even help the community by helping new players into it.

[joethepro36]

The most important thing for a new player to do is to state they are new and ask for help. In a squad like mine, instead of getting annoyed at them I'll explain everything we're doing, give them tips and such as well as give them leeway when they screw up.

It is extremely important to praise people in general when they do something good and equally important to reassure them if they screw up via a simple mistake. Using a lat to take out an apc is pretty damned hard 100% of the time, I always congratulate my squad on such an occasion. If the guy misses at anything other than 20m stationary I'll just say "oh it happens, don't worry about it, let's get some ammo" otherwise I gently mock them.

As you said, it's the players themselves who give bad impressions but it's down to the new guy to know when a squad is bad. It's no use joining a squad named "sniper" or "recon" and expecting to have good teamwork and to be frontline infantry.