Project Reality Forums

i could agree to this. the only time i use it is for spotting, which is useless without a radio, and to kill another sniper. dump it.

Brummy wrote:How often do you see the combat engineer sneaking into enemy territory compared to the original spec-ops kit? The amount of such squads have drastically decreased, because their leet kit has been taken away.

Same with the sniper kit, it has a certain leet factor that attracts these peeps.

I've been reading this all along and just had to say something lol. I think this idea of taking away the sniper kit is just as ridiculous as making fast ropes for choppers. I just can't help but ask wtf ? I can't tell you how many times I have used sniper kit for it's intended purpose, and when the team is not catching up, I've stopped numerous enemy sqds from advancing. It's the stuff that you never see or hear. The APC keeps rolling and not getting hit by a trigger-happy TOW gunner, or choppers gets to land and drop troops safely because AA in "clear". Everybody seen people announcing "Cobra fail" or "Suck that, tank" etc. Snipers don't brag about wiping out a full sq or stopping their advancement, or preventing enemies from building a FOB. You take that away and you going to cripple not just the population of servers but the gameplay as a whole. Diversity is what makes PR what it is. Taking that away will turn this game into something that you might never play again.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing how to properly use as you keep calling it "l33t" weapon. It doesn't matter if it's a HA-T, sniper or anything else you can think of.

There is a very good old saying - " If it's not broken, don't fix it"

I don't completely agree with either side, but I must say if Sniper kits were removed, they would join normal squads where they would eventually learn teamplay... though these 'l33t' players would probably go into another kit, they would be forced into an infantry squad eventually (lone-wolfing HATs don't last nearly a quarter as long as snipers do) where they will eventually learn team-playing by being with good squad leaders and squad member etc.

Also, I think just reducing the Sniper kit to 1 per team would actually help a bit - at the start people would be bitching and fighting for the kit but they'll soon realise how scarce they are and treating them like they should be used.

one positive thing, this is one of the more interesting discussions the forums has seen in a little while. Just remember to stay civil guys

there could be an alternative, though I'm unsure of the realism in conventional terms though it seems to be the case amongst british troops in afghanistan -

the sniper rifle could have a deloyed and undeployed mode, this would basically be undeployed - same kind of accuracy as the lee enfield, deployed - same kind of accuracy as now.

This would mean that it had a more legitimate place in an infantry squad, though only one per team, so that its a nice important asset, if you lose it you're gonna be using marksman rifles only instead.

just floating, I prefer constructive discussions to destructive ones

I agree but then give the marksman a pistol and some signaling smoke.

The problem isn't the kit, the problem is the useless players that usually get hold of it and how they are oblivious to their own uselessness.

One good sniper in one good position can deny an area or approach from the enemy for a very long time.

The problem is tho a0jer, the sniper kit seems to attract them 9 out of 10 times. Thats why people are thinking about removing it. If theres no kit to attract the "wrong" style of gameplay, you dont have the gameplay at all. Hopefully, they grab an assault rifle, join an infantry squad and help out. Or do some other job that needs doing

Psyrus wrote:Thus it is against the spirit of the game and should be removed, in my opinion.

And in my opinion you are wrong on you point of view. As far as I know Project Reality concept came out from the search for reality in BF2 (or generally war games). And importance of TEAMWORK is a very natural outcome of this good implementation of REALITY. TEAMWORK is an optional game play option. You can choose to play or not to play as a team. This is a game at the end and if people don't want to socialize with other people at that very own time of theirs this choice must be belong them. You can't force people to play like a body part of your squad. Though servers already creating game environments like those by their own rules. There are servers kicking people for not joining squads, mumble. Day by day asset dedicated squads becoming much more common and so on to push teamwork. And believe me most of todays optional server rules did not used to exist in first releases of PR.

So what I'm trying to say is PR is a game or should be a game (IMO) that gives you the reality of war environment as much as it can and should leave the elasticity of rules and effective game flow to servers. Solo APCs/TANKs, wasting helis/jets, TK for kits, stealing assets used to be very annoying problems of the game. They are still exist of course but no one can ignore the decrease.

Snipers do have some problems in game. But solution is not to remove it totally. Because it IS still very important in todays armies.

Plus: The day you removed snipers a thread will come to bring them back. And I can promise that at the end it will make its way back. Come on guys...we are talking about SNIPING here. How long this concept exists? 100 years? 1000 years? Since the invention of bows?

FuzzySquirrel wrote:I disagree with removing the kit, every game has elements that are abused, but you don't take them out just because a small majority abuse it (except for the pilot kit side arm....). The main point of this kit is to provide Recon and on occasion engage infantry from a concealed position. and Example is yesterday I wouldn't have done half as good as I did without the Recon squad informing me where AT weapons and other threats to my APC were.

I am however REALLY tired of this. "If its abused get rid of it" stuff tho, Snipers are realistic, and yes they can't see any farther than anyone else, and you will get a noob every now and then that likes to play survivor in the city, but that doesn't mean we should remove the kit.

If you remove the kit, you might as well;
Get rid of transport vehicles because you can just walk.
or
Remove Combat Engi because AT weapons accomplish the same thing as Mines and C4
or
Take away the AA kit because you can build it at FOBs
...

These are completely unrelated, not even similar to sniping.

Transport vehicles don't take anything away from teamwork or the game, it actually adds lots of teamwork if it's used right.

I don't think I have to show why Combat Engi isn't the same as AT, same with the AA kit / emplacement.



The thread isn't about the sniper kit being abused, it's about the sniper kit taking away from the main force of the battle, which PR focuses on frontline standard infantry instead of awesum sniper teams.

Please read the entire thread before posting.. =\

[EDIT]


Also, I don't see why people are saying "They'll just take grenadier or hat or lat" These kits aren't being taken to far off places, alone, and used to get 1337 Kills. The HAT kit, on the contrary, can be used like this, however it's not as effective.

I was initially going to lock this thread as this idea has been discussed before, however seeing as the discussion here so far has been fairly positive i've instead merged it with one of the older threads on the subject.

Keep the discussion as civil as it has been up till now.

0331SgtSpyUSMC wrote:I've been reading this all along and just had to say something lol. I think this idea of taking away the sniper kit is just as ridiculous as making fast ropes for choppers. I just can't help but ask wtf ? I can't tell you how many times I have used sniper kit for it's intended purpose, and when the team is not catching up, I've stopped numerous enemy sqds from advancing. It's the stuff that you never see or hear. The APC keeps rolling and not getting hit by a trigger-happy TOW gunner, or choppers gets to land and drop troops safely because AA in "clear". Everybody seen people announcing "Cobra fail" or "Suck that, tank" etc. Snipers don't brag about wiping out a full sq or stopping their advancement, or preventing enemies from building a FOB. You take that away and you going to cripple not just the population of servers but the gameplay as a whole. Diversity is what makes PR what it is. Taking that away will turn this game into something that you might never play again.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing how to properly use as you keep calling it "l33t" weapon. It doesn't matter if it's a HA-T, sniper or anything else you can think of.

There is a very good old saying - " If it's not broken, don't fix it"

The bragging part is totally up to the server/players. I never see people taunting anyway, because I play on TG.

I admit the functionality of the sniper kit. It's a good kit in the right hands. Unfortunately, those right hands appear to be almost non-existent. We've all seen it; snipers being absolutely useless and abused. Other assets get abused as well; transport choppers (we all know it ), APCs and everything else, but seriously, how often do you see a good effective sniper team?

Kashan Desert is probably the map with the most of these 'tardy' snipers. The popularisation of the sniper concept in every single FPS and film makes certain types of players grab the kit, sit on top of a hill and shoot people or at least try and shoot people in the bunker area.

Now of course, a good sniper provides recon and stops countless of squads or whatever. How often do you see this happen? How useful is that sniper really when you could replace that guy with a great SL, a medic or simply a dedicated infantry squad member?

Not to mention the fact that the sniper kit is horribly unrealistic in its current form in-game. Of course PR has tons of other things that are unrealistic; but at least they provide a teamwork and gameplay enhancing experience, or at least I'd like to believe so.

The sniper however in its current form is a very often abused and useless kit.

yeah I used sniper kit in insurgency yesterday and it was fun but I've got to admit it sticks out like a sore thumb from the rest of the PR ethos. I admit it CAN sometimes be useful but MOST of the time it is wrongly used or there just isn't enough team coordination for the provided intel to be useful. I also feel in PRs current incarnation a sniper can fail to effectively deny a squad, unless he spots you at his longest distance you can just smoke up get the AR/marksman/normal inf to shoot him or at least suppress him especially with the whole squad effectively has two lives with medic reviving behind cover.

I dont have anything against that kit. The useless sniper player is also useless in any other role, with any other kit.

Useless player = useless player ; no matter which kit he has.

Let the snipers be snipers, even if they are lonewolves. I couldn't care less if they have a positive K/D and are close (shooting range) to an attack/defend flag.

I know from my point of the stick a great deal of snipers has kept me off the AA/TOW, or kept me from sticking my HAT-face over this or that hill.
I think the kit is fine the way it is - it's popularity is hyped imo.

The arguement that it can take out AA's, HAT's, TOW's is not a very good one since vehicals should be supporting infantry, the infantry squads can take those out ,a TOW can only take you out one at a time and if you have a marksmen well then all those HMG's, AR's, TOW's, AA's will be useless against you.If you just take out the TOW get a tank squad to bombard them.... or CAS to bomb them... or some other way to take out the FOB/enemy on the flag.
People say its a player problem...its not, it takes away from the gameplay since i'd rather have him in my squad in the cap radius than on a hill doing nothing than shooting threats that are not direct threats to them or anyone else and then getting shot themselves and then rage quiting, or picking up another kit, or joining another squad doing very little gets the sniper kit again (thus wasting squad space for someone who actualy wants to play with teamwork) and then making his one man squad and going off again. Although i do see the argument that says "yeah but they can be useful if they are used by the right person in thr right place at the right time" the only problem with this argument is that, yes that might be true but take the marksmen kit for example (since its slightly similar), if there is no-one to shoot then it can move up with the rest of it's squad and help cap the flag/complete a task, were as a sniper can only sit there and maybe lase/shoot at some un-threating target giving their position away.

A sniper is also unrealistic as in a 4x4 KM map you have quite a few tanks and stuff rolling about along with infantry, and i'm not sure about this but snipers are usaly hidden very well by using netting or using sand to dig themselves into the ground a bit, this is not possible in PR and thus making the whole stealth aspect of snipers which is probs the main part useless and not effective as infantry and tanks can spot them from quite a distance away.

i dont like the sniperkit but i dont think it should be removed.

refering to a chess game, the point is that sniper is an element that fits in a row with: armor, antiarmor, air,antiair. these elements carry superior attributes aswell as specific weaknesses. so does the sniper.

just yesterday i had a round when i got dropped on baracuda island then found an enemy sniper who just disconected. i played the round as spotter, literaly did my job in killing the one guy on the AA just before the air assault on the swamp flag started then i got out. one round, one shot, no deaths, a lot of spotting and the right support to the team in the right moment.

Brummy wrote: Now of course, a good sniper provides recon and stops countless of squads or whatever. How often do you see this happen? How useful is that sniper really when you could replace that guy with a great SL, a medic or simply a dedicated infantry squad member?

Agree. Would rather nothing than having a guy on my six with a shotgun rather than some dud in the hills who never heard of the K button.

Just to reiterate

The KIT is not the problem!!

It's the poor use of the kit that's the problem....

Sir.Grossi wrote:Just to reiterate

The KIT is not the problem!!

It's the poor use of the kit that's the problem....

the spec ops kit wasn't the problem it was the misuse of it, since project reality should be more infatry based snipers are infantry yes but they are not a main part of infantry squads, i you need a long rnage wepon use a marksmen. Also snipers have very little use due to veiw distance, maybe if on maps where the veiw distance was more than 1500 or 2000 it would be useful as the scopes and distance would allow stealth at range. but since that isn't going to happen soon i find the sniper kit veru un-usful in small scale matches of 32 vs 32 players, if it is removed sure poepel will be like " booooo bring it back or i won't play anymore" well if your playing for one kit then we don't need you here.

A sniper is also unrealistic as in a 4x4 KM map you have quite a few tanks and stuff rolling about along with infantry, and i'm not sure about this but snipers are usaly hidden very well by using netting or using sand to dig themselves into the ground a bit, this is not possible in PR and thus making the whole stealth aspect of snipers which is probs the main part useless and not effective as infantry and tanks can spot them from quite a distance away.

thats like saying infantry should be removed because they cant dig trenches