Aggressive Tactics Not Working

General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.
Akiba101
Posts: 42
Joined: 2011-03-31 19:00

Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Akiba101 »

Reading through the replies i have tired to put some of the advice into practice and the simple fact that i'm now sitting back and thinking about assaults has significantly improved my infantry battles especially in the open area maps. Also the advice of many in regards to evaluating and assessing the abilities has been extremely useful when planning attacks and defenses of flags and what i might have done with one squad would be out of the question with another but both tactics might result in success

I appreciate the numerous responses guys and it really highlights the kind of variety of tactics within the PR community and although there conflicting views and no real set of "perfect" tactics to abide by i feel that just getting an idea of what other people do will help not only improve my own game but everyone else's
(I'm aware of how cheesy this sounds :P )
But its true :D
LegioX
Posts: 116
Joined: 2010-10-10 01:18

Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by LegioX »

Wicca wrote:In any assault, if your getting shot at, you are doing it wrong. Cause u should always choose the route of no resistance. That way you can just rape yourself into someone.

It is much better to kill people who has 0 situational awarness, if it is thorugh positioning yourself behind the enemy who is facing your "friends".

Or if you wish to make a diversion. Flanking is the best way to work. This is due to the simple fact that in PR, whoever aims first, is going to get the kill. Unless he is a noob.

Frontal assaults only works if as rudd said, you have over 9000 firepower.
Wicca and Rudd, I'm gonna have to disagree on that. Too many squad leaders try to go for that "special ops" playstyle of taking the route where they think no enemies are at. But this causes the entire team to split like a pieces of a frag grenade. Without great team coordination, requiring a strong commander, everybody flanking at once will only cause disaster. Think about it, if Team A has 2 squads at position Alpha, and team B wants to take it. Even if team B has 4 squads attacking from all directions, without proper timing team B will get ripped apart.
Honestly, how often do you see squads alone in the mountains of Lashkar Valley, lone US squads "flanking" in the mountains of Muttrah, or solo armor squads without infantry backup to keep those pesky RPG/IED teams off their backs. Then, how long does anybody last in that round.

Squads should stick together and attack the frontline with maybe 1 or 2 heavy infantry asset "flanking" groups hunting enemy heavy assets, and a scout squad to inform the team of enemy reinforcements.
The biggest mistake of ANY squadleader, armor air or infantry, is thinking that they are an attack force by themselves, when in reality they are only part of it.

One well played game we had that build I'm talking about, and the affinity between squads was amazing. It was on that Canada vs Russia map, and we, as Russia, were losing our second to last post. We've been getting our *** whooped the entire round, and it was basically our last attempt to win. I, with my sniper, was playing an officer scout (i had officer, he had sniper) and was marking infantry and armor locations. With mumble, we decided that 1 helo will take 1 squad behind the position, and 1 guy will drive a motorcycle distraction while, on my mark (I was suppose to shoot the enemy spotter on the tower) the rest of the team will attack from the front.
After some fighting, my scout sniper team was able to pin an entire enemy squad who was attempting to solo our last flag and our armor squad was able to outmaneuvre their armor reinforcements who were coming to defend. Finally, I saw the SL of our flanking squad on the flag. We lost less than 50 tickets and won ~20 to 0.

Too much flanking will only make it easier for the enemy to catch you out of position.
Stick together and tear shit up.
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TheComedian
Posts: 677
Joined: 2011-01-08 13:46

Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by TheComedian »

LegioX wrote:Honestly, how often do you see squads alone in the mountains of Lashkar Valley, lone US squads "flanking" in the mountains of Muttrah, or solo armor squads without infantry backup to keep those pesky RPG/IED teams off their backs. Then, how long does anybody last in that round.
Honestly... it all depends on the composition of the enemy team, enemy skill, your skill and a lot of luck. Solo APCs usually destroy more of the enemy team than supporting infantry.

That said, many squad leaders would deny APC support because the noise will give away their position.
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ComradeHX
Posts: 3294
Joined: 2009-06-23 17:58

Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by ComradeHX »

I need to mention that splitting up the entire attacking force in closer ranges and attack from flanks is not "spec ops".

In fact, it is a legitimate conventional tactic that can be used to cause confusion among the enemies(they would expect a strong, massive attack from one side but they will be disoriented by fire coming from multiple directions).

It is only silly when ALL squad leaders try to flank and no one attacks from the front...
Mikemonster
Posts: 1384
Joined: 2011-03-21 17:43

Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Mikemonster »

Ultimately good players know very well how to advance, it's what we've been doing our whole FPS 'careers'.

PR gives the challenge of extending this to knowing how to advance a Squad.. Which is trickier.
Hunt3r
Posts: 1573
Joined: 2009-04-24 22:09

Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Hunt3r »

The problem is that you don't have enough shock and awe/suppression.

The best solution to doing assaults is to have a flanking team that does mopup while one team that preferably has lots of armor and contains a gun that fires explosive shells is putting heavy suppression and distraction to a defensive position.

Or artillery. The point is that you need a distraction.
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KP
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by KP »

[R-MOD]Eddiereyes909 wrote:If you aren't charging with your pistol your attack will fail.
Psssh. The guy in front here's got it down.

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It's not just about the one guy charging in in PR (and real reality) - he might be very aggressive and all, but he'll still get a slapping from a defended position.
Aggressiveness is more about keeping the initiative, i.e. making the enemy react to you. Keep his head down and don't give him room to maneuvre, while you move as freely as possible. Use suppressive fire and assault from several points with lots of guys.
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Deer
Posts: 1603
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Deer »

Well one mistake what 99% of players does when they attack is that they shoot first enemy they see... its basicly same as if you would shout at your enemies that "we are coming from here, please kill us !"

I always order my squad not to shoot unless enemy has seen em. Sometimes i even run after enemy squad and knife em while they are running. Point is to wait for the moment when you can kill most of the enemies at once, if you kill the first one only, rest of the enemies will kill you.. Another thing is that when you have made your first strike, you have to switch position ASAP in case some more enemies heard your kills and are coming to check it out..

Basicly all you ever need to know is this: Think what enemy thinks.
Last edited by Deer on 2011-08-15 18:08, edited 7 times in total.
Arnoldio
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Arnoldio »

Flank, make the enemy the stupid one.
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Gracler
Posts: 947
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Gracler »

Few days ago on one of my charges I came up behind the enemy lines and charged a guy with my knife ......he didn't see me but was also charging forward so I ended up charging a charging guy.....and I couldn't catch him .....I ran on his heels for about 15 meters and gave up :d uh:

My weirdest and funniest charge ever....Fail charge that was.... I never knew where that guy went after that...
_casualtyUR
Posts: 111
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by _casualtyUR »

What Deer, said, battle field discipline. Never shoot the first guy because 5 other (at least) are hidden behind him. Force the enemy to be exposed, as they turn around, reacting to your assault, when you let the enemy squad leave the scene. Control the tempo of the battle.

Static defenses will always be overran. There must be aggressive assault; if for no other reason then to move the flag, to take pressure off the static defenses.
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Brainlaag
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Brainlaag »

Meh there is no rule or tactic that applies every time. It depends from the situation, the position/terrain and the opponent itself. Sometimes turd rush works sometimes you get torn to pieces. Sometimes flanking leads to an astonishing victory, sometimes it ends up in a colossal failure.
Simply said, its more a matter of luck rather than skills and combat tactics.

But taking a few minutes before the attack to overthink your approach and consulting other squads is the best thing to do. Something that works for me quiet often is a mix of long range suppression (by AR+GL) and quick flank or direct strike. As said, there is no common rule which applies always.
TheComedian
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by TheComedian »

With skills and experience you learn to 'feel' the situation, and, lets face it, you always know where the enemy is on maps like Kashan, Muttrah, Barracuda, Karbala, Silent Eagle, Kokan, Fallujah etc.
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Brainlaag
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Brainlaag »

TheComedian wrote:With skills and experience you learn to 'feel' the situation, and, lets face it, you always know where the enemy is on maps like Kashan, Muttrah, Barracuda, Karbala, Silent Eagle, Kokan, Fallujah etc.
On the other hand an experienced enemy also knows where you are, or you will come from.
Rudd
Retired PR Developer
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Rudd »

^ especially now with UAV :)

sneaking is very hard, at least on maps without lots of top cover
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alvina
Posts: 167
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by alvina »

Experience. Knowing the surroundings and picture yourself scenarious that can happen before they happen. Look at the map alot to give youself a perspective. In this version of PR there's small measurements, wich basicly means if something goes wrong everything goes wrong. As a squad you need to always mooove and displace, and use grenades to win squad on squad battles. Flanking is one of the keys.
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LegioX
Posts: 116
Joined: 2010-10-10 01:18

Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by LegioX »

I hear all this talk of flanking, moving there moving here, but guys, we must remember that flanking only works if the front is strong and that the enemy are not stupid immobile targets -- they can also flank.
Then it all comes down to superior maneuvering while being able to maintain defense. Never ever ever let the enemy flank YOU because YOU are trying to flank them.
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Qadis
Posts: 101
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Qadis »

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:^ especially now with UAV :)

sneaking is very hard, at least on maps without lots of top cover
Speaking of which, the UAV should at least be visible by the enemy team, if not destroyable. Attacking is hard enough already.
Dev1200
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Dev1200 »

Qadis wrote:Speaking of which, the UAV should at least be visible by the enemy team, if not destroyable. Attacking is hard enough already.

Only coordinated teams will ever use commander, otherwise they just use it for the artillery strike/jdam @ end game.
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Jafar Ironclad
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Re: Aggressive Tactics Not Working

Post by Jafar Ironclad »

Here's my ideal procedure when I'm leading a squad in an advance:
Important factors: use of smoke, access to cover, anticipation of enemy firing angles, FIGHTING ON YOUR TERMS.
Once contact is initiated-
1. Check for cover, as well as angles of incoming fire if possible.
-If either cover is limited or the enemy is engaging from two or more distinct angles: Smoke your position and retreat. Check step 2.
-Else: smoke the opposition, post your machine gun and a backup guy to pin the enemy, and flank into close range (Be swift and deliberate, especially if it's an urban fight, as you are in constant danger of being flanked yourselves.) Check step 3.

If you must retreat from a point of contact-
2. Find a position with sufficient cover and sightlines, and where the enemy must advance considerably to flank you. Post your men to cover vectors where there are no friendlies. Mark the enemy positions on the map.
-If the enemy pursues; engage, report, and arrange for them to be flanked. Do not use smoke on them unless the enemy has access to cover; the screen will work against you if you have the opportunity to overrun them. Check step 3.
-If the enemy does not pursue: call for reinforcements and fire support (preferably indirect fire). Your goal at this point is to force the enemy to move, or to explore another angle of attack. Return to step 1 once you've increased your team strength in the area.

If you overrun the enemy-
3. Call for backup, secure cover, set a perimeter, and move your support weapons forward. Expect a counterattack within 15 seconds of overrunning the enemy.
-If the enemy counterattacks: focus on denying fire superiority and sightlines to your enemy through smoke and suppressive fire. Do not attempt a substantial flanking maneuver until and unless you have a strong friendly presence in the area, as you will be initially be bracketed by the rest of the enemy lines as a function of your advance. Do not hesitate to retreat if it allows you to set a killzone on an advancing enemy. If backup doesn't arrive and you are in imminent danger of being overrun, smoke your position and retreat.
-If the enemy stops/isn't counterattacking: wait for reinforcement, then continue the advance. Return to step 1.

The key to an aggressive advance is establishing control and fighting on your own terms as much as possible, whether that means moving forward, pulling back, or going around. When a battle would be in the enemy's favor, focus on denial and enforcing your terms, as you cannot advance if you are dead/incapacitated. Once the battle is on your terms, capitalize on their weaknesses and go for the overrun, as the same is true for the enemy.
Last edited by Jafar Ironclad on 2011-08-20 07:08, edited 1 time in total.
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