AtG AT Missile Splash Damage

[Celestial1]

Sorry Rhino, but it looks like giving the LT and LG Helfires different damage values is the only way to make the weapons act realistically if you insist on giving LG an small splash damage.

Wouldn't that still be broken, though?

1.0 reduced the splash of hellfires, which now means that soft targets not the direct target of the missile are no longer murdificated on splash, but making LT retain the old splash damage would mean that helo gunners can laze and fire LT to get the ability to wipe all of the squishy infantry within 20m again.

I guess it's mitigated the smaller the splash for LT is made but still, can result in some silly exploit tactics for gunners.

[Jolly]

When my tank doesn't have ATGM and nme's does.
I'd not dare to take the tank...

[Mongolian_dude]

Wouldn't that still be broken, though?

1.0 reduced the splash of hellfires, which now means that soft targets not the direct target of the missile are no longer murdificated on splash, but making LT retain the old splash damage would mean that helo gunners can laze and fire LT to get the ability to wipe all of the squishy infantry within 20m again.

I guess it's mitigated the smaller the splash for LT is made but still, can result in some silly exploit tactics for gunners.

Reverting the splash to the old value is likely not necessary, but a small amount of testing should give us a more fitting/realistic value than a vote on the forums.
It would also be entirely up to the gunner whether they want to waste time and ATGMs on INF like that when they (except the GER Tiger) have a perfectly capable cannon for this exact purpose.


...mongol...

[chrisweb89]

Gunner's can't lase for themselves,and even when they could no one did because the lase flies super slow and is super glitchy. Why would I attempt to lase a target for myself, when in that time I could get two manual missiles off, and with less glitchy shit going on, and when my pilot isn't hovering.

About the LTs though, they are currently broken and their only use is on inf, trucks, or very AA hot areas where you can't hold steady. They aren't reliable in any way (not the LGs are too reliable either), you shoot two missiles at a lased tank, they both track and follow the good lase and tank drives away with no damage done because of the removal of splash damage. Splash damage is what lets the laser targeted weapons work because the lase doesn't stick perfectly on the vehicle, and until lases act properly, the LTs missiles should make up for their short coming to still form an effective weapon system.

[Mongolian_dude]

Gunner's can't lase for themselves,and even when they could no one did because the lase flies super slow and is super glitchy. Why would I attempt to lase a target for myself, when in that time I could get two manual missiles off, and with less glitchy shit going on, and when my pilot isn't hovering.

About the LTs though, they are currently broken and their only use is on inf, trucks, or very AA hot areas where you can't hold steady. They aren't reliable in any way (not the LGs are too reliable either), you shoot two missiles at a lased tank, they both track and follow the good lase and tank drives away with no damage done because of the removal of splash damage. Splash damage is what lets the laser targeted weapons work because the lase doesn't stick perfectly on the vehicle, and until lases act properly, the LTs missiles should make up for their short coming to still form an effective weapon system.

But chris, thats not realistic!
What do you want, it being unrealistic and working (as RL) or it realistically not working (which is entirely unrealistic and not at all like real life) ?

Wait... wut?


Giving two different splash values is the only compromise to balance this issue out, as the ultimate goal of this mod is to provide realistic and enjoyable/logical gameplay. If we can make all the little intricacies as real as they are IRL, thats awesome, but in this instance we cant afford to do so as it entirely compromises gameplay logic, emersion and enjoyability.

Ergo? Separate dat sheet.



...mongol...

[sirfstar]

At least you should kill anything with 1 hit of LT missile.
Papier-mache AGM-114 - YouTube from 0:30
LT is completely useless, missile hitting the lase and doing nothing, why it's still there then?

[Inspektura43]

Just get yourself a good gunner and never trust LT

[sirfstar]

that's the consequence of broken lase placement, not the gunner's fault. And while we had that big splash in pre-1.0 no one cared about LT, but now things are different

[Rhino]

For our next test build we are looking at testing Mats39's improved laser physics here that should allow for lasers to stick on their targets better.

using RotationalPoint instead of Point as physics type seems to be a huge improvement.
For example i tested Point vs RotationalPoint both with the current 250m/s

The RotationalPoint ones stick tighter to where you aim and are more consistant. With Point they sometimes didnt stick at all while RotationalPoint did just fine.

We've yet to test this out ourselves but so far it dose look promising and providing there are no unforeseen issues with this and it works the way we hope it dose, then this should solve the big underlying issue with "Laser Targeted".

[Mongolian_dude]

Still experiencing a poor success rate with the SU-22's ATGMs on both heavily and lightly armoured targets.

...mongol...

[viirusiiseli]

*looking back at 0.98 with a longing gaze*

[dysin]

maybe a little less effective overall with a "good" laze on heavier armor, but the real problem is with lighter skinned, smaller vehicles. if the laze sticks off the side, ground spotter often has no real way to identify the issue, so sending even two atgm will get it smoking at best. i'm referring specifically to maverick agm-65 type, such as issued on the su-22.

good example would be trying a diving run on an avenger. "good" laze can be several meters off target, uncontrollable from the pilot's perspective, leaving the crewman happily safe inside with a clear shot directly into the belly of the outbound, or the tail and a stack of flares in the worst case. same scenario from ww2 era strafing runs, and the disconnect run out with every AAA in range staring at the underside. that of course defeats the intention of agm's altogether...

with commander lazes apparently being removed in the future, i think that it's necessary to increase the damaging radius if the devs decide not to (or cannot) implement a good solution. at least do this for fast movers, as heli gunners have the far more effective manual option. larger classes of heavier armor do tend to cook off in 2 shots on a crooked laze, obviously due to their larger hitboxes, but they are still marginally safer from agm runs contrasted with .98

[sirfstar]

off-topic: have anyone had the issue with cobra when 1 actual click releases 4-8 missiles at the same time? really helps to kill anything with one run but quite annoying to reload every time.

[Truism]

I did some gunning yesterday, and we found the LT mode useless even with properly stuck lazes.

A moving vehicle was impervious to the missiles, with all of them near misses, and on a number of occasions, stationary vehicles with good lazes weren't destroyed. We were piloting the havoc, so I was dropping about 5 missiles per LT run in the hope of having an effect, but that wasn't creating the desired effect either.

I also discovered that far less of the PR community knows how to laze than used to. 9/10 of our "good lase, cas come" targets had some muppet sitting there holding left mouse on his GLTDs, with me and the pilot forced to watch the lases fly back and forth.

I'm just going to give LT a miss from now on. People can laze if they like, I'll just use it as a target indication.

[Truism]

Le double post.