Current CAS ATGMs

[Daniel]

Still watching, am around 30 min. mark now... nothing so far...

[[F|H]Zackyx]

Dude i gave you a link it start at 27:30 and watch until 31:00

[Psyrus]

Zackyx;2006097']Dude i gave you a link it start at 27:30 and watch until 31:00

I watched that time period and didn't see anything wrong with it. If you'll recall, FOBs and assets were buffed in 1.0 due to their weak nature in previous versions.

The ATGMs were changed to reflect the shaped charge nature, as in their throw up a lot of dirt and maybe some rocks, but how much is a rock going to do to an armored jeep? As you saw, the direct 20mm rounds on the emplacements and fob were fine, and direct hits do huge damage... so use lazes and cannons for maximum effect.

[viirusiiseli]

I watched that time period and didn't see anything wrong with it. If you'll recall, FOBs and assets were buffed in 1.0 due to their weak nature in previous versions.

The ATGMs were changed to reflect the shaped charge nature, as in their throw up a lot of dirt and maybe some rocks, but how much is a rock going to do to an armored jeep? As you saw, the direct 20mm rounds on the emplacements and fob were fine, and direct hits do huge damage... so use lazes and cannons for maximum effect.

So you're saying a bunch of sand bags are supposed to stop an AT missile? In the video zacky direct hit the AA and it did not go down.

[Psyrus]

So you're saying a bunch of sand bags are supposed to stop an AT missile? In the video zacky direct hit the AA and it did not go down.

Psyrus;2006101']As you saw, the direct 20mm rounds on the emplacements and fob were fine, and direct hits do huge damage... so use lazes and cannons for maximum effect.

I guess you can decide for yourself what I'm saying.

If you would like to file a bug report with an attached video in controlled conditions, I'm sure one of the materials-specialists (like K4on) will be able to weigh in.

[[F|H]Zackyx]

So if i understand you are sayng that in real life if you miss a unarmored Jeep with ATGM by 1/2 meters shrapnel wont kills the crew / shred the tires. And that Atgm wont destroy batteries, optics of AA , Tows..
And i never said that canon damage is fine and its not.

To kill the AA emplacement i shot a Close ATGM 1/2 meters miss , 1 direct hit , 1 long burst of canon , and a small burst of canon you real think Strella batteries and optics and skin is armoured ?
Irl one direct hit of 20 mm or just the shrepnels will render completely useless the missile/ tows , but its a game and im not asking for this but something less op.

[[F|H]Zackyx]

http://youtu.be/VOT2i-zNHW8?t=1m5s

This is what 6/7 30mm can do to a unarmored jeep ( notice their is only 1/2 direct hits) and 4 dead/criticaly wounded people.

Look how shreded the car is, do you think and AA position / Tows can stand that kind of damages ?

If you want i can give more videos (but they are graphic) where you see car hellfire landing close to civis car and getting heavily damaged.
Theire is multiple video of Apaches destroying mortar, spg , dshk positions with canon only with 1 burst.

[Mats391]

The deployables got increased survive ability against splash damage in recent updates. This is mainly due to them consisting mostly of blast resistant materials (dirt, sandbags, metal...) and only very small amount of sensitive things like optics and ammunition. That is why close misses wont do a lot of damage to them.
In your video i would rate all missile to be close misses and no direct hit. The closest you got was hitting the dirt/sandbags and those take reduced damage. I can however see that they might be a bit too resistant currently. Mostly i notice this when crewing an AAVP and trying to get rid of a TOW with the Mk19, it takes forever.
Rest assured the crew in open vehicles or emplacements will suffer damage from explosions. So even if you cant blow if up easily, you will get rid of all personal close to it.

[[F|H]Zackyx]

Rest assured the crew in open vehicles or emplacements will suffer damage from explosions. So even if you cant blow if up easily, you will get rid of all personal close to it.

The paradox is that if i do a "Close misse" i will kill the people digging or hiding on the emplacement but not the guy inside manning it. Which is worst thing that can happen to a 1.00 CAS crew because of the new effects you have a huge ball of dirt around that emplacement you can't see him anymore , which make it impossible to score a direct hit on a emplacement with a radius of 1 meter but the guy in the emplacement has no problem to find you since he can see the green box thru to Huge dirt/smoke clood.

Just the Blast wave should kill them

Even when they are precise, however, casualties and damage are not necessarily confined to the specific individual, vehicle, or structure targeted. The blast radius from a Hellfire missile can extend anywhere from 15-20 meters;[33] shrapnel may also be projected significant distances from the blast.

Source :NYU and Stanford Law School report

Drone Bombings in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas: Public Remote Sensing Applications for Security Monitoring

[Mats391]

Zackyx;2006172']The paradox is that if i do a "Close misse" i will kill the people digging or hiding on the emplacement but not the guy inside manning it. Which is worst thing that can happen to a 1.00 CAS crew because of the new effects you have a huge ball of dirt around that emplacement you can't see him anymore , which make it impossible to score a direct hit on a emplacement with a radius of 1 meter but the guy in the emplacement has no problem to find you since he can see the green box thru to Huge dirt/smoke clood.

Just the Blast wave should kill them




Source :NYU and Stanford Law School report

Drone Bombings in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas: Public Remote Sensing Applications for Security Monitoring

Hellfires in PR are deadly for soldiers up to around 10-11 meters. Passengers or the crew of a vehicle/emplacement have a higher survive ability rate, because of the bad explosion system used by BF2. I guess you remember when you could survive JDAM 5 meters away because you were in a little ditch/behind small wall. The same happens on the AA. The gunner is surrounded by sandbags and if those are only slightly in the way of the explosion he wont take damage.

I guess your numbers are more about random shrapnel that flies 20m. Most of the explosive energy and shrapnel goes into the ground and only a few fly of long distances. Getting hit by one of those far flying pieces is not what we represent with explosion damage in PR. We cant represent it in any good way, so it is best to focus on the effective splash damage zones. If we had a system that allowed to do proper shrapnel it would be awesome, but unreachable in BF2.

I also checked the damage values of hellfire vs AA.
An AA has 500 max HP and starts bleeding at 250HP. A close miss deals 200 damage, a hit on dirt 1300, a hit on sandbags 420 and a hit on the gun 2400 damage. Only thing that i would change about this is increased damage on sandbags and reduced on dirt, but this would make destroying them harder as hitting the dirt is the easiest to hit.

[Chuva_RD]

Zackyx;2006172']The paradox is that if i do a "Close misse" i will kill the people digging or hiding on the emplacement but not the guy inside manning it. Which is worst thing that can happen to a 1.00 CAS crew because of the new effects you have a huge ball of dirt around that emplacement you can't see him anymore , which make it impossible to score a direct hit on a emplacement with a radius of 1 meter but the guy in the emplacement has no problem to find you since he can see the green box thru to Huge dirt/smoke clood.

Just the Blast wave should kill them

need to be more convincing, i'm not feel how hard to be gunner on attack helicopter today. When you feels like a flying devil, shoots guys under you and they can't fire back, for you that's not the limit, need to buff cas weaponry for ultrascores of cas-gunners

for example, let me see at least one video where it's hard to play as CAS crew because now your posts looks like you beg more deadly hellfires.

[[F|H]Zackyx]

Most cas crew can't get more than 10/15 kills. And if there a good AA operator that know how to "glitch" with AA you have no chance (flyng cas in organized games, tournament, clan matches is a nightmare). If you want to see video where its hard to be a cas crew just check youtube its full of bad cas round.

If its that easy , you need to be more convincing and show us how easy it is to be a good CAS crew.

[StandardSmurf]

" i'm not feel how hard to be gunner on attack helicopter today. When you feels like a flying devil, shoots guys under you and they can't fire back, for you that's not the limit, need to buff cas weaponry for ultrascores of cas-gunners"

LMAO @ A Flying DEVIL ! Very descriptive that sounds like something the Taliban would call CAS IRL.
Only thing about CAS as is that I don't like was demonstrated in the first video of this thread. The splash damage isn't really there like it used to be. Multiple light armored vehicles next to eachother should not get killed but they should take damage, however any infantry around really should get roasted. Avoid the flying devil.

[Rhino]

To quickly summarise with the whole "hellfire vs deployable AA and other deployable weapons", right now all the deployables use the same sandbag and dirt materials and with the firebase getting a buff from hellfires etc taking them out too easily, so did all the other deployables.

Now first I would like to point out that a near miss on an AA emplacement would mean that the sandbags would most likley protect anyone inside them from the shrapnel etc being thrown up. That is the entire point of sandbags is to protect people from small arms and shrapnel, which is why they are used.

Currently however if you hit the sandbag wall directly with the hellfire, it would do little damage to the deployable and not kill the guy inside, due to all the deployables getting a buff from most things hitting them as it was too easy to take out a firebase before.

I agree this really shouldn't be the case for deployable weapons since if a hellfire directly hit a sandbag wall in r/l, if the missile didn't get though it, the shaped charge would certainly (unless it was a very, very thick one or w/e) and would easily destroy anything on the other side of the sandbag wall.
But at the same time we don't want hellfires or other weapons like that taking out firebases with just hitting their sandbags in one hit since the firebase is meant to represent something that can not be taken out by a surgical strike, but really needs to be overrun by troops to be gotten rid of completely.

As such what we should probably look into doing is making two separate deployable Sandbag materials, one for the firebase and foxholes etc that take little damage from hellfires and other weapons like it, and one for deployable weapons that if hit directly by a hellfire or similar weapons, are then destroyed instantly with killing anyone manning them at the same time. But striking near them or their dirt foundation would still result in the current damage settings, with little to no damage to the deployable and at most, if there is no sandbag wall in the way ie, hitting the dirt foundation within the sandbag wall, killing who ever is manning it. Also worth noting that if you currently hit the weapon itself a hellfire should kill it instantly, but that's without checking the settings but I'm pretty sure that's the case and your more likley to strike the weapon itself than hitting the dirt foundation inside the sandbag wall.

How dose that sound?

[Daniel]

Your first missile misses (as you can see) and the second hits inside but it seems that in current PR version two or more missiles are needed to hit the AA emplacement to completely destroy it.

Zackyx;2006097']Dude i gave you a link it start at 27:30 and watch until 31:00

I don't see any improper damage, everything fine, every single Hellfire kills the guys around it and your gun also does the job with a few rounds...

[[F|H]Zackyx]

How dose that sound?

Good, thank you for looking into this issue.

Daniel pls stop trolling and read what rhino said.

[viirusiiseli]

Necroing because I'm not sure if this is being fixed or not. This current system is not working. See pictures/video. After direct missile hit to the center of the asset, AA alive, most times even the guy survives.

Hit After hit

Video

[Daniel]

most times even the guy survives.

what?!?

[Rhino]

Necroing because I'm not sure if this is being fixed or not. This current system is not working. See pictures/video. After direct missile hit to the center of the asset, AA alive, most times even the guy survives.

Hit After hit

Video

Cheers, I had forgotten about what I posted above and I'm currently looking at this kinda stuff at the moment so will put it on my list

[viirusiiseli]

Cheers, I had forgotten about what I posted above and I'm currently looking at this kinda stuff at the moment so will put it on my list

Allrighty, good.