Current CAS ATGMs

[K4on]

This is how strong the current PR Air ATGMs are:


We currently have a discussion in the team section, but I am also curious of what our community thinks about it?

I personally dislike the low splash from a gameplay POV though, as I had quite a lot akward moments when attacked by a chopper and still managed to kill it with my tank/apc. On the other hand, CAS Pilots can reach quite high K/Ds and can wipe a full team if they are good. So in terms of balancing and gameplay, do you think the current system should stay, or should the splash damage rather be increased? How do our CAS pilots rate this from their gameplay POV?

[GlaDi]

Tank ones should look the same...

[Psyrus]

K4on;1991827']So in terms of balancing and gameplay, do you think the current system should stay, or should the splash damage rather be increased? How do our CAS pilots rate this from their gameplay POV?

Do we care what the other 96% of the server thinks (the people who aren't playing CAS)? I love the low splash from a gameplay POV, since it means that the CAS choppers have to rely on teamwork, lazes and cautious/slow gameplay rather than being able to slaughter things on the ground due to big splash damage.

I feel like it brings them back in line with other assets.

[sirfstar]

have to rely on lazes

Which does not work as intended most of the time.
Haven't tried it for a long time though, does it still sticks on a random bunch of air nearby the vehicle resulting with inability to kill it with LT missiles? If no then low splash is perfectly fine.

[MADsqirrel]

I am not a CAS pilot, but I think they need, at least, a slight buff.
Jets can only work with Lazes as it is and do not have guided rockets (except harrier) but a lot other weapons to engage enemy armor.
CAS choppers are weak against armor ATM because their only weapon ARE the guided rockets. They should be able to fight enemy armor, even without laze so a splash radius buff would be good.

[Prevtzer]

It's good as it is, if you hit right next to armor there will be smoke everywhere and they won't be able see anything/ engage you so it's all good.

[Dude_Nukem]

@Prevtzer: unless they got thermal, right? ITS better to take out the target imo. (Looks like im bashing you, ac. more threads, but I'm trying not to. Sorry maine )

I think its hella fine. In comparing the amount of hellfires it got and ammo on Rockets and main gun plus the damage it can do, its quite a killing machine already imo. When used properly ofc., which is quite common these days, I guess.

Hellfires are not weak at all, it just requires some "skill" to take out a target. Its about timing aswell, if the target is stationary it will be an easier target ofc.

Also, I like the cas got to hit the target right on to do max damage. This will bring a bit of more "skill" in zee game. Right now its like: "hell ,im going to fire this missile at that Guy overthere, because I got 99 rockets left anyway" or when missing a vehicle. I am exaggerating ofc. but I think that comes quite a bit across with the current mindset. (Which these missiles cost around 10k each?). Also the main gun on the Havok for example is very strong, quite big splash damage imo. Dunno about the rest of the cas and their main gun, but I think: "het is geen kattenpis". A Dutch saying which means "Its no catpee", which says: its not something to mess around with .

[DC_K]

I consider myself a great CAS pilot/gunner. This perspective will be about CAS v. armor pieces.

From my experience with talented chopper gunners, I believe there is a problem with the current missile system. There's been many instances where my gunner would shoot a direct missile onto an armored target and it would not kill it nor disable it, even when stationary. When this happens, the armor piece usually drives off laughing at us while we waste all our missiles on trying to kill it.. it's crazy.

It's important to balance game-play and skill, because we don't want to have inexperienced CAS crews killing everything on the map, nor experienced CAS crews killing nothing. Having said that, I think that the splash radius needs to be buffed a bit. A direct missile should kill an armor piece and a few splash missiles (3-4?) should be enough to at least disable one. However, I am inexperienced with how missiles work in real life against armor pieces, so I'm not exactly sure how it should work, but the current system definitely needs to be worked on. Good thing you brought this up, it is an important subject.

prWARs DC_K

[UTurista]

If I'm not mistaken Rhino did a vote about Splash damage and the winner was something around 2-3 LGs to kill a tank in ~5m, which I think its a good balance.

Even though I don't like gunning/flying CAS and hate them when they kill ma title tank, the video showed 12 LGs being fired to an APC which is absurd.

Again between 2-5 (APC-Tank) LGs combined with the low speed choppers have, should be a good compromise.

[Tequila]

Another thing to take into consideration is damage to the crewmen. I can think of 2 instances off the top of my head. The first was in a BTR on Pavlovsk where we were attacked by cas huey hydras. No direct hits but both me and my gunner were killed. The BTR was unscratched. The 2nd was in a tank on Sbeneh where a bombcar exploded about 30 yards away. My gunner and myself both died, the tank was fine.

[Daniel]

Splash-damage on armored vehicles should definitely NOOOOT be increased, as IN REAL LIFE the Hellfire rockets have a 9kg rather high-explosive-combined-tandem anti-armor shaped-charge-warhead, which directs the damage exactly to the FRONT of the missile (NOSE of missile does most damage on impact-point!!) SO, the Hellfire (or all LGM from AttckHelos) is an anti-tank weapon for DIRECT HIT, and the MG from the gunner is suited against "soft" targets.

[bren]

There aren't that many "phenomenal" cas pilots out there, and although they do get a somewhat decent K/D I believe it would be nice to throwback an old .98 perk, but not as extreme.. As much as I love the ATGM's I believe they aren't that splash effective, I believe the DEVTeam has it right as far as anti armor, but there have been case where I have come close to taking out a full squad with a couple ATGM's but they get away almost unscratched because the splash is so low on them.

[Roque_THE_GAMER]

well, just make the canons more useful, they seems pretty weak especially the Apache, make the gunner only use atgms only against vehicles and constructions maybe reduce the canon spread or the overheat and more explosive radios.

[Inspektura43]

The hellfire splash damage doesnt matter, its already incredibly easy to get direct hit on everything.
If you cant kill it its your pilots fault for not flying steady enough.
I still demand on bringing back the old hellfires trail tho, please .

It's good as it is, if you hit right next to armor there will be smoke everywhere and they won't be able see anything/ engage you so it's all good.

This ^

@Prevtzer: unless they got thermal, right? ITS better to take out the target imo.

Smoke and dust still get rendered even with thermal

[Murphy]

I think it makes sense that you are hitting the ground next to the APC and doing little damage, but that many missiles is excessive. I have had my share of time gunning in choppers (mostly sareema) and I believe the ATGMs are alright how that are. The missiles are still very effective when you don't rely on LT, that adds to the balance versus ground targets.

You can no longer rely on spamming missiles on a lase, you might have to look at your target and sometimes even guide the ATGM yourself. I still see good CAS squads getting high KDRs, so I'm unsure how many people actually have a problem with the current state. The cannons are great versus infantry, even the Hind cannon can rack up kills with good coordination, ATGMs having low splash keeps them from being the only effective weapon.

[Daniel]

Oh, I forgot to mention, the missile splash radius vs. infantry is laaarge enough imo (assuming nothing got changed since 0.98 on that value!!

[Dude_Nukem]

Smoke and dust still get rendered even with thermal

Alright, I thought so. But wasn't sure about this.

[atom9[CH]]

ATGMs are ok!, because you have to hit it directly and that is good for the gunner and also fair for the APC/Tank crew.

Would be nice if you could ask the same with the gunner cannon, because there I have a diffrent opinion in comparison with the Dev's.

[Ghostwolf]

Yes, ATGMs are cool with 0% splash damage vs armored targets.
Otherwise, they will be abused with the ATGM spam bug and IMO it makes more sense, to have to hit an armored target directly with armor piercing ammunition.

The cannon is good aswell. Lots of splash damage, but only vs soft+delicate targets.

The current system makes sense and is good!