Suicide Vests?

[StevePl4y5]

Oh that's right huh. Well excuse me for not paying attention..


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Yea whatever, this thread was dead for weeks, if not months, and someone descided to revive it for some reason. I think we've had enough discussion about it, the argument most seem to present is that it's not politicaly correct or whatever. Because we don't already have suicide tactics in PR anyways right?

[Rabbit]

Yea whatever, this thread was dead for weeks, if not months, and someone descided to revive it for some reason. I think we've had enough discussion about it, the argument most seem to present is that it's not politicaly correct or whatever. Because we don't already have suicide tactics in PR anyways right?

And the fact its just not going to work very well. People will start trolling with civis trying to get killed because no Blufor will be worried about them. In real life you don't have people trolling along trying to get killed so Blufor will lose intel points....

The other way you have to look at it is how will it affect teamwork? Sure you could say it will be used as the start of an ambush, but will it? Will this actually happen most of the time, or will this turn into another sniper kit?

Its an anti personal weapon, so really what benifit does it have over a normal IED other than it being mobile? Other that being able to hide places a VBIED can't, there is really no benefit.

With all of these "ifs" we would have to find someone to make it, and pull them off much more pressing tasks, which could end up being a complete waste of time are resources for something that might be useful, but will in term just be used to troll and exploit the game.

I feel like the reasons above are a pretty damn good reason why not to add it.

[Ragnarok1775]

There is nothing politically correct about war, and war is what PR intends to simulate. Suicide bombers are real. It's just how it is. Call it not-PC or whatever other excuse you want.

But hey, you already have something very similar. Just rush them and single-right-click with a hand grenade. Same effect.

[StevePl4y5]

And the fact its just not going to work very well. People will start trolling with civis trying to get killed because no Blufor will be worried about them. In real life you don't have people trolling along trying to get killed so Blufor will lose intel points....

The other way you have to look at it is how will it affect teamwork? Sure you could say it will be used as the start of an ambush, but will it? Will this actually happen most of the time, or will this turn into another sniper kit?

Its an anti personal weapon, so really what benifit does it have over a normal IED other than it being mobile? Other that being able to hide places a VBIED can't, there is really no benefit.

With all of these "ifs" we would have to find someone to make it, and pull them off much more pressing tasks, which could end up being a complete waste of time are resources for something that might be useful, but will in term just be used to troll and exploit the game.

I feel like the reasons above are a pretty damn good reason why not to add it.

Those reasons I can accept, but talking "politicaly correct" on a war mod that strives for realism is ridiculous to me, and that kind of argument is all over this thread.

[Darman1138]

I'm sure it's not so much an argument for reality, but the DEV's probably don't want to potentially step in hot water.

Six Days In Fallujah was a game that a developer called Atomic Games was working on. It was centered around the Second Battle of Fallujah and was a tactical third person shooter that would realistically depict the battle from the perspective of the US Marines. It was supposed to have shock and awe moments that force you to make moral decisions so we can bet it had some pretty heavy stuff in it. The game was met with so much controversy that it completely killed Atomic Games and ruined any chances of the game ever being made. Read this Wiki article about it to get an in depth view of what happened.

Six Days in Fallujah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the Iraq War still fresh in everyone's minds and suicide attacks still prevalent, I highly doubt that suicide vests will make it into PR. It's not an argument about if it's realistic, it's about not wanting to get shut down.

That's just my opinion anyway. I'm not a DEV and I don't speak for them.

[Mikemonster]

I honestly can't see this ever being implemented. It is realistic, and soldiers have been killed in Iraq by suicide bombers jumping onto their vehicles and detonating, but as mentioned, it will be too close to home for those in the west who have the illusion of a 'civilised war' against 'uncivilised terrorists'.

It interests me however that we have IED's marketed at players as a really innovative, cool toy to kill blufor with - But suicide vest kits are beyond the pale. This is despite the fact that we have in game both suicide bomb cars, and suicide bomb trucks. And soldiers for the past 13 years have been being maimed and killed in active warzones by both.

In terms of practicality, I think they would be hard to use but if they looked like the Collaborator kit they would pose a very realistic dilemma for Blufor forces - Arrest or shoot on sight? In real life the suicide bombers disguise themselves as civilians, so much so that they detonate in crowds.

[Brainlaag]

I'm sure it's not so much an argument for reality, but the DEV's probably don't want to potentially step in hot water.

Six Days In Fallujah was a game that a developer called Atomic Games was working on. It was centered around the Second Battle of Fallujah and was a tactical third person shooter that would realistically depict the battle from the perspective of the US Marines. It was supposed to have shock and awe moments that force you to make moral decisions so we can bet it had some pretty heavy stuff in it. The game was met with so much controversy that it completely killed Atomic Games and ruined any chances of the game ever being made. Read this Wiki article about it to get an in depth view of what happened.

Six Days in Fallujah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the Iraq War still fresh in everyone's minds and suicide attacks still prevalent, I highly doubt that suicide vests will make it into PR. It's not an argument about if it's realistic, it's about not wanting to get shut down.

That's just my opinion anyway. I'm not a DEV and I don't speak for them.

Oh please, there was also a huge shitstorm regarding Medal Of Honor's MP, in which you got to play Talibans. Some Americans were so pissed at it and became vocal about how disrespectful it would be to shoot "their" own troops. No one, however, bats an eye at three decades of murdering thousands upon thousands of German "sons and fathers", or lately the "evil" Russians and kebabs. It's pure hypocrisy coupled with propaganda for their own cause but PR does not has to bend to those standards, because it's not a monetary product. PR is not sold and cannot be influenced by negative critiques sanctioning it. EA and Atomic Games took flak, which made a repercussion on their sales and thus they had to endure it (since the main market for games is still the US, quantity wise).


I already said, I'm against this suggestion because it offers zero actual value in game, there are virtually no advantages to it. Besides that, from my understanding, there is no real argument against it.

[camo]

I'm sure it's not so much an argument for reality, but the DEV's probably don't want to potentially step in hot water.

Six Days In Fallujah was a game that a developer called Atomic Games was working on. It was centered around the Second Battle of Fallujah and was a tactical third person shooter that would realistically depict the battle from the perspective of the US Marines. It was supposed to have shock and awe moments that force you to make moral decisions so we can bet it had some pretty heavy stuff in it. The game was met with so much controversy that it completely killed Atomic Games and ruined any chances of the game ever being made. Read this Wiki article about it to get an in depth view of what happened.

Six Days in Fallujah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the Iraq War still fresh in everyone's minds and suicide attacks still prevalent, I highly doubt that suicide vests will make it into PR. It's not an argument about if it's realistic, it's about not wanting to get shut down.

That's just my opinion anyway. I'm not a DEV and I don't speak for them.

My impression was that it was a shitstorm created by mothers who recently lost their sons and didn't want it re-imagined in an unfamiliar form.

[Vicious302]

How is that any different from dying any other way? Death is death. Soldiers sign up to go to war, no one drafted them, so I very rarely have sympathy for people who WANT to kill but then end up being killed; Especially the way the are killed. Innocent people that didn't sign up for war are killed everyday but there's no consideration for them, so please. I highly doubt any of those mothers will be playing PR. As far as game play... your arguments all apply to bomb cars but we still have them, so I feel it's a false arguement being made up to play devils advocate.

[StevePl4y5]

I'm sure it's not so much an argument for reality, but the DEV's probably don't want to potentially step in hot water.

Six Days In Fallujah was a game that a developer called Atomic Games was working on. It was centered around the Second Battle of Fallujah and was a tactical third person shooter that would realistically depict the battle from the perspective of the US Marines. It was supposed to have shock and awe moments that force you to make moral decisions so we can bet it had some pretty heavy stuff in it. The game was met with so much controversy that it completely killed Atomic Games and ruined any chances of the game ever being made. Read this Wiki article about it to get an in depth view of what happened.

Six Days in Fallujah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the Iraq War still fresh in everyone's minds and suicide attacks still prevalent, I highly doubt that suicide vests will make it into PR. It's not an argument about if it's realistic, it's about not wanting to get shut down.

That's just my opinion anyway. I'm not a DEV and I don't speak for them.

Like Brainlag said, that happened to a company with a big title. PR is not a big title, it's a mod, and the Devs are not a company, they're part of the BF2 modding community. PR is for the community of gamers who enjoy realistic first person shooters, so nothing to do with that. (plus we already have suicide trucks)

Also, from what I read on the wiki page, the controversy was absolute bullshait. "Considering the enormous loss of life in the Iraq War, glorifying it in a video game demonstrates very poor judgement and bad taste" Really? What about all the documentaries about Iraq, and all the ones about WW2 and Vietnam. Not to talk about the games. Which were far worse conflicts. If I had the final word on that company, that game would be avaliable to play today.

As for suicide vests in PR, I personally think it would be a interesting addition to Insurgent tactics, if you don't agree that's fine, I'm not asking you to. Just don't bullshait me with political ****.

[Jolly]

If u throw nades faster, u don't need a vest.

Whether Devs add it or not, it will not affect the game too much.(It will just works like bomb cars.)
But considering human is a much smaller target, it'll still funny using it.(Considering PR a game prospect.)

I can see how would BLUFOR's tactic against it as well.

PS: Anyway, if this will cause legal problem, there is no point we should discuss about it.