AT Rocket use.

General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.
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Darkpowder
Posts: 1527
Joined: 2006-08-30 22:00

Post by Darkpowder »

'[R-DEV wrote:Riki_Rude_BTYC']
Things like, takes time to arm, long reload times that can't be exploited, and not being able to get rockets from riflemen.
Taking out the ability to get rounds from riflemen, in my opinion actually detracts from teamwork. All AT sections operate on a buddy system, and although in reality this would require a hefty delivered (APC or airdrop) supplydrop situation i think allowing a heavy AT trooper to "run to placeable ammodump" run-back fire, run back etc just emphasises the arcade elements of the game.

Taking out the reload exploit.. - Excellent :)
Time to arm - Excellent :) - I would suggest only arms when it is in zoom mode, and if zoom mode is cancelled back to no-crosshair mode the arming is cancelled completely.

Hells, just stop -all- firing from the hip for heavy AT - period.

An escorting infantryman (or 3) tends to be required to get a heavy AT gunner in any position where they can cause some serious damage to tanks.
Its a great teamwork experience, and testament to the vey unselfish infantrymen who have to accompany the gunner for protection against any slightly organised team.

The conversation about wasting it on infantry is pointless, as the enemy is never going to complain about that if they have tanks, as they will just roll up and squash the AT guy when he is desperately trying to reload.

I would -emphasise- the Teamwork, and insist that the rifleman must have the BAG equipped in medic-proximity distance to reload the heavy-AT.

i.e. no buddy/rifleman - no rearming, or perhaps no reloading at all.

OR.

Just one round from an ammo bag, but in my experience any fool AT-Gunner who exposes themselves to fire at a single infantryman will soon get aniled by any self respecting marksman or sniper.

CQB... well arming times and minimum distance calculations like for Grenade launchers should stop all that.

This is as extreme as it should get, as lets face it its only a problem because we have some vanilla playing fools who noob-tube it.

compensation for this could be very low-smoke rounds (realistic), and perhaps all this will pale into insignificance when you see what the Javelin can do.

If anyone wants to see a heavy AT used by british forces vid against a sniper at extreme range, let me know. (Dont forget those ones in RL are -guided-), not the point and shoot machines we have.

Try using a heavy AT on tournament like that with tanks rolling around, and you will find yourself in deep trouble with the commander when the armoured column breaks through unopposed.

Please don't go removing collaborative teamwork for any reason. Its what makes up the bread and butter of this mod.
Mongolian_dude
Retired PR Developer
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Post by Mongolian_dude »

Darkpowder wrote: Try using a heavy AT on tournament like that with tanks rolling around, and you will find yourself in deep trouble with the commander when the armoured column breaks through unopposed.

Please don't go removing collaborative teamwork for any reason. Its what makes up the bread and butter of this mod.
Awww man, i cant wait to play EJOD in the tourny! :)

...mongol...
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Robbeh
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Post by Robbeh »

You could always make it harder to rearm.... 2 or 3 ammobages to one at rocket would make things a little harder and would require more than a rifleman tossing a ammopack at you on his way past ;-)
Cerberus
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Post by Cerberus »

I hate how people always try to use that argument that the ammo bag advocates teamwork. Same with the medic kit. The act of giving ammo during a firefight is not what teamwork is about... teamwork is about covering your sector, listening to the squad leader, staying in close proximity, and using tactics as a team.
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G.Drew
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Post by G.Drew »

missles are used as bunker busters, not just AT weapons
(predator is used to great affect of Hills of Hamonyang, especally when fired at radio dugout!)
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Cerberus
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Post by Cerberus »

Using AT as a bunker buster is absolutely fine due to it being used that way IRL and the fact that you would not likely be able to engage those inside otherwise... however, when the enemy is in the open and you can use a rifle, that's when I get furious.
"Practice proves more than theory, in any case."

- Abraham Lincoln


"i so regret searching "giant hentai penis" on google images though ;_;"

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jackal22
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Post by jackal22 »

Raniak wrote:Yeah, everyone know that you can kill a whole squad over 300m with a pistol(heavy AT get pistol)...
if a squad of bad guys was coming to kill you, you wouldn't say "hey, let's wait for them to get closer to flank us, I'm sure I can get them with my rifle !" but you would fire at them with your AT weapon and blow them into little pieces...

READ NUMBER 3 before you post:

quote, what the friggin hell are you lone wolfing with heavy at for? tell you dam squad. thats the point of teamplay.
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MadTommy
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Post by MadTommy »

Imo it would appear to me to be a matter of assigning the correct priority to targets and ONLY firing at less priority targets when the likelihood of a high priority target appearing is very slim. (and you must always have an ammo supply of some kind)

My target list:
#1 MBTs or APCs (depending upon circumstances)
#2 ‘Hittable’ heavy choppers
#3 Mobile AA
#4 Full vehicles & boats
#5 Rally Points
#6 Bunkered down troops
#7 grouped troops & snipers

(i cant ever recall using heavy AT on a sniper, i find a knife much more fun)
Raniak
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Post by Raniak »

jackal22 wrote:READ NUMBER 3 before you post:

quote, what the friggin hell are you lone wolfing with heavy at for? tell you dam squad. thats the point of teamplay.
Even with a squad, if you start firing at another squad over distances, they will spread and get cover... I've never seen a squad destroy another squad over 200m(without sniper or PLA optic)... their squad leader alway get away, wait for respawn and flank your squad resulting in casualties on your side and possible lost of the flag you are defending...
Note: I never lone wolf, the situation I was talking about was hypothetic and not something that has happened to me.
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Comet241
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Post by Comet241 »

Randleman5102 wrote:Ya I can agree using it on a group, but on one person, thats $500+ out the drain on one guy.

i think that the american army would consider it cheap at 500 a dead enemy. hell, we'd be out of iraq 4 years ago if thats all it took, a couple hundred here, a couple million there.... back at home sipping mai tai's

but i think the tactic is ok, especially when you consider your options if you are rebel for instance... a pistol vs semi-auto, or my rocket vs his face....
jackal22
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Post by jackal22 »

Raniak wrote:Even with a squad, if you start firing at another squad over distances, they will spread and get cover... I've never seen a squad destroy another squad over 200m(without sniper or PLA optic)... their squad leader alway get away, wait for respawn and flank your squad resulting in casualties on your side and possible lost of the flag you are defending...
Note: I never lone wolf, the situation I was talking about was hypothetic and not something that has happened to me.
i see what you mean about the situation but you could always get your squad to sneak up around them and take them down, if it comes to it using a rocket isnt wrong it just shouldnt be your first option.

and it wasnt aimed at you in any way, just in general and more so to the light at guys that would rather use it then a rifle. that is what really annoys me...
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Gyberg
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Post by Gyberg »

Personally I think that Anti Personel rockets should be introduced such as the Carl Gustaf (Used in Afghanistan by the US if Im not wrong) and RPGs with shrapnel grenades for MEC etc.
I also think that the splash damage of AT weapons should be decreased as i AT weapons often uses a shaped charge (I know the AT-4 does) with a limited amont of splash damage, it is designed to pierce through so the force is directed in one direction (ofcourse there will be some splash damage).
But until AP rockets are introduced (if they ever will be) I think it's completely OK to use AT-weapons on infantry in groups.
On a sidenote I was told during my military service that an AT-4 costs 10 000 SEK which is around 1500 USD. And the way I see it 1500 USD is not much for clearing out an entire squad.
Last edited by Gyberg on 2007-03-26 11:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Anthony Lloyd, himself a former soldier in the British army and a Northern Ireland and Gulf War veteran:
"The men inside (the APC) might have been UN but they were playing by a completely different set of rules. They were Swedes; in terms of individual intelligence, integrity and single-mindedness I was to find them among the most impressive soldiers I had ever encountered. In Vares their moment had come."
MMad
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Joined: 2006-03-26 02:36

Post by MMad »

If I happen to be holding an RPG or AT4 when an enemy pops into my view and sees me, I'm sure as heck not gonna start rummaging around for my rifle, giving him ample time to kill me first. I'll do my best to blow him up.

However, I can't really see myself switching to an AT rocket launcher to take out infantry - I'm way more accurate and (usually) deadly with a rifle than with an RPG or AT4. The exception would be situations where a rocket can take out enemies that a rifle couldn't easily reach - partially covered infantry at short to medium range with a wall behind them, for example.

I really don't see the big problem. I think the rockets are fine as they are..
Guerra
Posts: 365
Joined: 2007-02-15 17:19

Post by Guerra »

I think its perfectly OK for insurgents to use RPGs on infantry, because they do it very often and the RPG rounds are extremely cheap, somewhere around 50 USD or less. That cheap. Really.

But using AT against infantry when playing a modern organized army is a little different. Its okay to do it once in a while, but don't run around with the AT ready to get some infantry.
Fat Zombie
Posts: 54
Joined: 2007-03-28 20:44

Post by Fat Zombie »

First off, hi! I'm new to Project Reality, not new to Battlefield, and I think the mod is great.

Anyway. I'd like to second MMad's statement; I won't bother changing to a rifle if I see an enemy that might theoretically kill me in the next second or so. I have a bad track record, death-wise, so I take any chance I get.

As for if i'm not holding an RPG, well, it depends really on whether I think i'll be facing any armour pretty soon, and how many people i'd take out with one. If there's not enough people, or I want to save my rockets for hummers, I'd prefer to shoot (pretty rubbishly) with my rifle.

Of course, this all applies to the RPG, which is my favourite weapon of all time and which I love. Anything else (AT4s, Predators, SRAWs, etc.) I don't usually use (or they're usually too valuable to waste on soldiers).

Anyway. Slightly off-topic this (good for my first post), but I heard from a mate that "They" are considering making Light-AT (Or RPG Gunner) a limited class in the next version. I'd like someone to refute that right now, please, and preferably say that in the next version EVERY class in the MEC/Insurgent factions get RPGs.

Anyway, hello there!
Gyberg
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Post by Gyberg »

Fat Zombie wrote:As for if i'm not holding an RPG, well, it depends really on whether I think i'll be facing any armour pretty soon, and how many people i'd take out with one. If there's not enough people, or I want to save my rockets for hummers, I'd prefer to shoot (pretty rubbishly) with my rifle.
First of all, Welcome!

Please tell me you're not one of those who run around with your rpg on your sholder and if someone pops out two meters infront of you, you fire. Because that is IMO awful.
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Anthony Lloyd, himself a former soldier in the British army and a Northern Ireland and Gulf War veteran:
"The men inside (the APC) might have been UN but they were playing by a completely different set of rules. They were Swedes; in terms of individual intelligence, integrity and single-mindedness I was to find them among the most impressive soldiers I had ever encountered. In Vares their moment had come."
Ecko
Posts: 925
Joined: 2006-11-28 22:49

Post by Ecko »

A way too solve this, have more maps with destructible environments, people will than save there rockets for worthwhile targets like someone held up in a building, or creating a new entrance :P
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77SiCaRiO77
Retired PR Developer
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Post by 77SiCaRiO77 »

Gyberg wrote:First of all, Welcome!

Please tell me you're not one of those who run around with your rpg on your sholder and if someone pops out two meters infront of you, you fire. Because that is IMO awful.
runing with my crapy and inacuarrate rpg is more usefull than running with my more crapy pistol.
Fat Zombie
Posts: 54
Joined: 2007-03-28 20:44

Post by Fat Zombie »

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:runing with my crapy and inacuarrate rpg is more usefull than running with my more crapy pistol.
This is a good point. I usually run around the pistol, but I pull out the RPG if I see a vehicle. If anyone is foolish enough to attack me then, they get a faceful of shrapnel. ¬_¬
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Freshmeat
Posts: 367
Joined: 2006-12-03 02:57

Post by Freshmeat »

Ahhh Heavy AT My Weapon Of Choice,First thing i grab..Its all about the Splash Damage..I never once used it in .4 but in .5 i have racked up 1021 kills with it and is my 2nd most used kit,

HAT is great for holding back the Troops trying to cap a flag
For instances u Can prob Change the way the games plays and is one if all u do Is Say

On desert ur on MEC U grab HAT Grab a Vodnik and Charge to the front lines Just so u can see the Gas station..well Wait few sec then Launch APC down..RELOAD.... LAUNCH straight in to the Gas station Woop there ya go Everyone that was there Gone, Raped,Never know what hit em, Which then gives MEC time to Take west and East city

All so try it on Inshinall forest as Chinise From the power plant towards the north ;)
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