Project Reality Forums

Problem is that we are only dealing with 32v32 so its not like there are a bunch of free people in a good game. As it is now if you want all assets working right and doing there thing you are only left with like 10 guys to actually attack,MAYBE! So the coax thing i dont care but to make it a 2 person vehicle is just taking more people out of the fight.

2 person vehicle is just taking more people out of the fight.

Its already 2-person vehicle....
And as I said, the tank power makes up for one guy less on infatry

If crewed armor really is taking out people out of the fight, then we might as well put back the tank and APC from vBF2 with driver and gunner in one.

Think not.

The 32 player limitation is no support for solo driving. On maps where there is more tanks that means that tanks are more vital to have for advancing than regular troops. So taking away 6 pers of 32 for handling 3 tanks is no setback.
The problem is that many don't make or join a tank squad. How can this be addressed. From other threads there is a call for making squads for tanks, infantry.... So if you don't join a squad team you won't be able to operate.
I find solo driving lame. I rather leave the tank if I don't get anyone with me.

if you guys are really going to ***** and moan that much, than i really dont see why if we're crying "realism" that attack helo's dont take off without a gunner, or a hummer leave the main base without atleast another person


"Not one village idiot grabs a Crewman and goes hunting for kills with his tank across the map, like a sniper..."


Solo tanker has to switch to kill things, an attack helo pilot doesnt.... and if you're high enough in the air as a helo, you can switch pilot--> gunner--> pilot and in 30 secs be up and flying again.

Or for realism's sake, why do we have people taking a landrover/hummer on their own, leaving 3 guys at the base that now have to walk to the fight? God forbid something happens like this on, oh say... Kashan? cause that's tottttaalllly realistic.

Not one village idiot grabs a hummer and goes hunting for kills with his m16 across the map...cause...that's just rediculous.

I don't see the problem exactly. I agree that idealistically I'd rather have 3 mean in every tank but we need infantry on the field. It is a very formidable weapon however PR maps are $%^&ing big and need every infantry soldier possible. I don't see how tactically they are such a hassle, solo tanker comes across a well disciplined crew with good communication and even if there was no delay on the shells they'd have no chance.

To be honest it sounds more like people have a problem with camping near main bases on maps such as EOID (or whatever the letters are) and such.

By the way Irish is clearly getting at heli pilots that just use hydras and AA missiles, so quit trying to make him sound like he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Im not even going to start on this subject again but i agree with you fully on this one Outlawz!
all im going to say though i normaly dont compare mods give the infatery equaly powerull AT kits like the have done in NAW there i said it the Javelin works and its also realistic even though you dont need a lock in that mod to fire it but make so it does need a lock to even fire, enyway normaly i dont compare mods but the Javelin in NAW works! and its the way it shut be in PR funny thing is i see people talk about it ingame in NAW wile playing, so im not the only one with that opinion
The solo tankers are getting so anoying i have put PR on a hold until somthing official is out about changing the way Tanks works i curently only play maps without Tanks on them.

Outlawz wrote:Its already 2-person vehicle....
And as I said, the tank power makes up for one guy less on infatry

If crewed armor really is taking out people out of the fight, then we might as well put back the tank and APC from vBF2 with driver and gunner in one.

Think not.

But tanks are not used to cap flags and they are not 2 person tanks. You can just take them by your self, i do it all the time.

Im a strong beliver in the 2 man crew system and that it should hold a signifigant advantage over a solo tanker. However last night I played a round on Kufra oil fields that muddied up my opinion.

I was part of a good squad, good teamwork, voip etc. We decided that we would grab a tank to support our advance. R-Mod Mongol was the driver and I was the gunner. Though I don't know Mongol I do know he plays regularily and knows what hes doing. He was a very good driver and I am a decent gunner in my own right. We tried very hard to work together and shoot-and-scoot over a ridge engaging tanks. We tried utilizing the two man crew to our advantage. We even switched seats half way through the tanks life to see if Mongol was better suited to gun and I to drive. My point is that the two of us are experinced PR players and we were really struggling to work well together. The big problem was the lack of stablilisation and twitchy gun controls when zoomed in. Mongol put me into a good firing position time after time but the tank idling was enough to make it near impossible to get the sight to sit where I wanted it to. The same happened when I drove, Mongol was yelling at me to stop moving, when I wasn't touching the controls. I wouldn't say we had a bad go in the tank but it wasn't great considering how many opportunities we had to shoot first. I know I have had better rounds solo tanking because the the tank was stable. After we were taken out Mongol even suggested he solo, I could tell he was frustrated with the situation as was I.

I don't care if the Devs can't get the stabilisation to work for tanks on the move but some kind of brake or even shuting the engine off when stopped would go a long way to making two people in a tank at least equal to a solo tanker in terms of ease of shooting. It really makes it difficult to work together and leads to peopel just soloing it.

The only thing you can do really is for the driver to switch to 50 cal when the gunner is taking a shot.

AnRK wrote: By the way Irish is clearly getting at heli pilots that just use hydras and AA missiles, so quit trying to make him sound like he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Oh, so because a guy can solo a chopper and use its weapons, so should the tank driver?

it's the same principle isnt it? a helo pilot.. has hyrda/aa rockets. he's effective killing machine even BEFORE he has a gunner. AND he get's to move and shoot all on his own.

now take a tanker. he has to drive, STOP switch to the main gun, load the round (if he's shooting the cannon) or just start shooting.

IF he has any sense of survival he'll shoot and move if he's in a **** location, or hunker down (like most tanks do in real life, what a concept!) and start laying down some suppresive fire.

but can the guy driving a tank, still move AND kill things effectively like a cobra? not really, unless you count running over people, but then again, you're putting yourself in the line of fire that's even WORSE than before if you were setting up outside of the cap radius.

'[uBp wrote:Irish;472472']it's the same principle isnt it? a helo pilot.. has hyrda/aa rockets. he's effective killing machine even BEFORE he has a gunner. AND he get's to move and shoot all on his own.

now take a tanker. he has to drive, STOP switch to the main gun, load the round (if he's shooting the cannon) or just start shooting.

IF he has any sense of survival he'll shoot and move if he's in a **** location, or hunker down (like most tanks do in real life, what a concept!) and start laying down some suppresive fire.

but can the guy driving a tank, still move AND kill things effectively like a cobra? not really, unless you count running over people, but then again, you're putting yourself in the line of fire that's even WORSE than before if you were setting up outside of the cap radius.

Sure attack helo's need a gunner too, but really...a helo pilot has about 10% of the firepower without a gunner and will die rather quickly usually. If I have a gunner I expect to live the whole round...I doubt solo guys are doing this. I rarely see solo pilots as its really really stupid and FAR less effective. Solo tankers can be quite effective though.

isnt that then just a matter of the pilot's skill? not if they solo or duo?


hypothetical statement

if a solo cobra pilot goes out, he probably knows how to play effectively. not because of the limitations of his vehicle, but because of the skill.

Yeah but without a gunner he has about a 10th of the amount of offense he has when his gunner is present...the best defense is a good offense. Most peoeple dont chopper well though, no matter if they have a gunner or not. A pilot with a gunner never even has to see his enemy...just blind fire Hellfire's and destroy everything as its spotted. Double zoom 600meters out and pound the INF with with MG.

A solo pilot has to engage enemies at close range, be spotted 10 million times so he can be TV missile bait from 1000m, deal with .50cal and AA fire, identify his targets on the run as he strafes, and he can't even take out a damn tank etc etc etc. I don't care how good of a pilot you are...there are WAY more chances for you to get messed up quick without a gunner.

I have yet to see a solo pilot dominate anywhere near a 2 man crew heli. In about 3 minutes my gunner can drop almost every APC coming from the Oman carrier (they usually come in all together)....on Kashan he can take out every piece of armor around...AA included while we rearm Hellfires on a supply truck...the list goes on. Solo pilots are a joke compared to 2 man crew...this is why we dont see many (at least I dont)....however, a 1 man tank crew can pretty easily do the exact same things as a 2 man crew with about 1/4 less effectivity (more or less depending on the driver/gunner).

VipersGhost wrote:Yeah but without a gunner he has about a 10th of the amount of offense he has when his gunner is present...the best defense is a good offense. Most peoeple dont chopper well though, no matter if they have a gunner or not. A pilot with a gunner never even has to see his enemy...just blind fire Hellfire's and destroy everything as its spotted. Double zoom 600meters out and pound the INF with with MG.

A solo pilot has to engage enemies at close range, be spotted 10 million times so he can be TV missile bait from 1000m, deal with .50cal and AA fire, identify his targets on the run as he strafes, and he can't even take out a damn tank etc etc etc. I don't care how good of a pilot you are...there are WAY more chances for you to get messed up quick without a gunner.

I have yet to see a solo pilot dominate anywhere near a 2 man crew heli. In about 3 minutes my gunner can drop almost every APC coming from the Oman carrier (they usually come in all together)....on Kashan he can take out every piece of armor around...AA included while we rearm Hellfires on a supply truck...the list goes on. Solo pilots are a joke compared to 2 man crew...this is why we dont see many (at least I dont)....however, a 1 man tank crew can pretty easily do the exact same things as a 2 man crew with about 1/4 less effectivity (more or less depending on the driver/gunner).

*NOD*
I am in 100% agreement with you on this. A tank should never be able to be solo'd. At the least, there should be a significant delay in moving from one position to another. If you've been inside a tank, moving from one position to another may be possible, but it is far from instantaneous. ....on top of the fact that you will never see a tank going into battle with only one crewman. I would even go as far as to require crewman gunner and crewman driver kits for tanks or even separate tanker kits, designated as such.

I think too many people are forgetting that though this is a game, reality is the goal as much as the engine will allow.

what the heck is wrong with solotanking ? if the tanks were maned by two people , does that stop the raping of the inf *** ? does that make him a easy or a hard target ? DOES THAT MAKE HIM BETTER ?

NO , period . solotanking is needed in SOME situations becouse WE DONT HAVE 100 PLAYER PER TEAM , can you imagine the 10 tanks of kasrah twomaned ? how much inf is left ? 12 . is fun to fight agains 12 soldiers ? NO .

It makes baby Jesus cry. And theres always enough players left to fight.
If one team's both tanks on Ejod are crewed, that still leaves 28 people to fight...

Outlawz wrote: If one team's both tanks on Ejod are crewed, that still leaves 28 people to fight...

77SiCaRiO77 wrote: solotanking is needed in SOME situations

then the problem is ejod ...

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:then the problem is ejod ...

^ My thoughts the entire time I have been wading through this thread. If the argument is that putting 2 players in every tank does not leave enough infantry on the ground, it means that there are too many tanks on the field at one time. As we have to use a respawning and ticket system to simulate several hundred soldiers fighting for both sides in a match, it means that at any given time only a portion of said fighting force is present. So the number of tanks on a map at any given time should be relative to the number of infantry that are supposed to be on the map at that time. This number is by no means static and can obviously vary by map if it is designed to be primarily vehicle combat or primarily infantry combat with vehicle support. Just saying that if there are not enough infantry on the ground to get anything accomplished, its a problem with the map having too many vehicles.

As with many things theres more than one issue at hand. Just because the maps have issues does not negate the fact that a tank should not be effective with a single guy running it. You can either agree or disagree with this, fine...in the end though, this game is about teamwork and realism within a fun game environment. Two man tank crews fit the bill for those objectives and is not going to kill the gameplay. In my experience a large percentage of guys are going 2 man crews just because its more fun. Guys that just grab a tank and run take away from the guys that actually want to 2-man crew them and have a good time with it instead of just sitting in the best raping spot.