[Rant] Armor needs to be more restricted in operating

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-29 21:24

I placed a rant tag, because I will be performing a rant tonight about tank and people who drive them solo.

So here we go:
The 0.6 made armor much more powerful and accurate, but it didnt eliminate the solo factor.
Thankfully, crewman wrench will be removed, so I can C4 the tank without having the w*nker pull back and repair with his rusty wrench a badly damaged tank.
However people (will) still drive the tanks solo. Outrageous.
I mean, how can someone operate a 60 ton tank with tons of weapons systems alone?

Tanks should require 2 Crewman to operate it - if theres only one guy, tank should get 'disabled' - it wouldnt move and the turret would not turn.
Also, a delay on coaxial, if possible.
I shoot an AT4 at an APC only to have the guy switch to F2 and shoot me with a burst of coax. Same goes for tanks.
Also, whats up with the AT mine activation? I place one down and put C4 next to it, detonate, tank drives away OVER the mine and doesnt get destroyed.

Rant off

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-08-29 22:04

i'm going to say what i always say to rant threads about solo tankers.

if you limit tanks to having 2 people to operate in PR, than you have to have a limitation to the ammount of people in an attack helo(pilot/co-pilot), or a transport helo (pilot/2x crew chiefs), or even in a hummer; because you know that no soldier on his own is going to drive into a city on his own, and no cobra is going to go up without his gunner, and no blackhawk pilot is going to leave without door gunners.'

I can see a delay, but i dont see your argument about "him switching after i shoot him with a AT, to his coax and killing me" as a fit argument. He has to switch positions. should i start complaining about how if i shoot a missle at a helo, why he doesnt have to switch to light me up like a christmas tree with his hyrda's? i mean.. he can still fly.. and kill things.. that's not fair is it..... A solo tanker is imobile if he switches to the turret, making him all the more vulnerable to attack from all sides or from a couple of AT/H-AT rockets.

i actually find solo-tanking more effective than dual crewman-tanking.

1) By having 2 people in a tank, you are taking one person away from putting bullets down range (the driver). "Put him on the .50 cal"----> if the drive is on the .50 cal, than the tank is pretty much a solo tank, with a 50 cal gunner.... cause that .50 cal is going to do alot.

2) When i solo tank, i go to a spot where i can oversee the area and provide support to my teammates. Why is this a problem? I play ejod and would sit on a ridge by myself and just nail anything that would come out of the bases. isnt that teamwork? i mean.. if helping my team cap flags without opposition is such a bad idea.... i'll go play with a pistol and a H-AT weapon.

3) If you're a solo tanker, you dont have to worry about someone else. if you screw up it's your mistake. i can live with that. but if i screw up and my driver is with me... that makes me feel like ****, and he's probably going to get mad.

4) If you're a solo tanker, than on open field fights, you have an advantage because a) you're not moving, so you dont have to worry about moving over the slightest bump throwing off your aim. b) the 2 person crew has to deal with the gunner going over bumps screwing up his aim, as well as moving to avoid fire. I find it's easier to kill 2man tank crews than it is to kill another solo tanker as a solo tanker.

However.. there are slight advantages to having a driver, in places like citie's.. but then again, a tank in a city without infantry support is a stupid tank crew. So... tanks are usually going to be out in the open anyway, which is where not having to worry about bumps/lack of turret stabilization is a godsend.

Outlaw, i see what you're saying, but i think that's more or less the issue with the tank, not with the guy in the tank. Anyone smart enough is going to pull back and repair his tank; even if he's with a driver. If you c4 a tank, and he's still moveable, than i think the issue is the C4 and that we need to boost the dmg of the c4, so that the tank is detracted, or the turret isnt able to move at all.

just my 2 cents. I've helped the team more as a solo tanker able to knock out incoming targets, than with a driver in the city.

EDIT: AT Mines always sucked.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-29 22:11

Well, having one more soldier out of the battlefield to operate a tank makes up for the fact, that the tank is a kiling machine itself.

You know, solo tanks camping on a hill, shooting anything, they see, especially on Ejod, ruin the game, becuase it takes tons of flanking and attempts to get rid of the tank, while no one fights the enemy team. At least in my opinion.

I agree on attack helicopters, but not jeeps and transports.

I know, that soloing is at the moment better, since having a driver creates vibration and makes the tank gun inaccurate. Fault for NOT having the turret coded to be gyro stabilised.
Everyone screams, how everything is run'n'gun and fragfest instead of tactical movement - but everyone defends the fact, that you CAN solely operate armor and happily slaughter more enemies than sniper...

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-08-29 22:14

if you dont think that limiting hummers/transport helo's to a min number of people is in order... than you cant really argue tank limiting can you? i mean.. if we're striving for reality in this game, than no-way is a soldier going to leave people at the main base in a hummer, while they are running to jump in are they? i mean.. that's just rediculous.

and last time i checked.... tanks in real life usually camp..... or should i say "place themselves in positions of strategic advantage"

attack helo's are killing machines.. and even then, the pilot doesnt have to switch positions to fly AND kill things OR have a gunner to kill stuff.... that poor solo tanker does leaving him totally open to attack. Question is... what's fair now?

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-29 22:16

A transport chopper does not have 2000 rounds of 7.62mm coax, 22 Sabots and 20 HEAT rounds.

and last time i checked.... tanks in real life usually camp..... or should i say "place themselves in positions of strategic advantage"

Last I checked, they fire, while moving.

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-08-29 22:17

Outlawz wrote: Last I checked, they fire, while moving.

last time i checked, is that really feasible in PR?

EDIT: outlawz, i'm not trying to sound hostile, just playing devil's advocate. I know that solo tankers can be a pain, but then look at all the other stuff that is a pain also, but doesnt need it's other position.

A Cobra can fly/maneuver (avoiding AA rockets), and kill stuff with it's hydras. That's even without a gunner for crying out loud. Now why are we not crying about that? Is that because that's how it's made? or how it's used to it's full effectiveness?

The same can be applied to the solo-tanker. He's playing his vehicle to the best he can, with the **** that he has to go up against.

i tell you this truthfully, if there is turret stabilization, i bet you would see a sharp decline in the population of solo-tankers.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-29 22:18

Yes, it is. Try getting a good driver/gunner and keep on moving. Enemy can never get your position accurately, because youre on the move 24/7

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-08-29 22:18

Outlawz wrote:I placed a rant tag, because I will be performing a rant tonight about tank and people who drive them solo.

So here we go:
The 0.6 made armor much more powerful and accurate, but it didnt eliminate the solo factor.

we dont have 1000 players per team , they are only 32 , there is an "escaces" of players , thats why we have a lot of solo tankers , there is simple not enoguht people to have ALL the tanks operated by 2 mens , period.

However people (will) still drive the tanks solo. Outrageous.
I mean, how can someone operate a 60 ton tank with tons of weapons systems alone?

actualy , no . right now tank are only a cupula of steel with a cannon , coax and a sniper scoped, what we need are more thing to the tank (and for the driver specialy) like smike screens , fuel-smoke (smoke by injecting fuel into something) , thermal vision (a tank can see trough smoke nades , you know?), etc .

[qute]Also, a delay on coaxial, if possible.[/quote]

agree

I shoot an AT4 at an APC only to have the guy switch to F2 and shoot me with a burst of coax. Same goes for tanks.

easy and realistic solution : MAKE APC WEAK AS THEY ARE IRL , no burning time when you shoot a apc with a tank round , no 2 shoot to thestroy and APC with your rpg/at4/pf , they can easyly penetrate the tiny armor of an APC

Also, whats up with the AT mine activation? I place one down and put C4 next to it, detonate, tank drives away OVER the mine and doesnt get destroyed.

Rant off

modern tank DONOT are completaly destroyed by a single mine , they are just imovilised .

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-08-29 22:20

Outlawz wrote:Yes, it is. Try getting a good driver/gunner and keep on moving. Enemy can never get your position accurately, because youre on the move 24/7

it's really not that hard. with the speed of the round, you just aim a little in front. any decent gunner that solo tanks can take out a dual tank crew. it's not hard at all.

also, re-read my other post, i edited it with a statement at the end.

.:iGi:.BLACKWIRE · Post by **.:iGi:.BLACKWIRE** » 2007-08-29 22:21

Tanks go boom!

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-29 22:21

easy and realistic solution : MAKE APC WEAK AS THEY ARE IRL , no burning time when you shoot a apc with a tank round , no 2 shoot to thestroy and APC with your rpg/at4/pf , they can easyly penetrate the tiny armor of an APC

Sabots would go through the armor, but HEAT should destroy APCs in one hit. After all, it is HIGH EXPLOSIVE...

Not really, the tanks armor is the weakest on the bottom, mine would rip it apart and rip off the tank crew's legs.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-08-29 22:22

mines are maded to destroy the tracks or kill the driver , not for fully exploting the tank into pieces .

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-08-29 22:22

outlawz, i'm not trying to sound hostile, just playing devil's advocate. I know that solo tankers can be a pain, but then look at all the other stuff that is a pain also, but doesnt need it's other position.

A Cobra can fly/maneuver (avoiding AA rockets), and kill stuff with it's hydras. That's even without a gunner for crying out loud. Now why are we not crying about that? Is that because that's how it's made? or how it's used to it's full effectiveness?

The same can be applied to the solo-tanker. He's playing his vehicle to the best he can, with the **** that he has to go up against.

i tell you this truthfully, if there is turret stabilization, i bet you would see a sharp decline in the population of solo-tankers.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-29 22:25

'[uBp wrote:Irish;471897']it's really not that hard. with the speed of the round, you just aim a little in front. any decent gunner that solo tanks can take out a dual tank crew. it's not hard at all.

also, re-read my other post, i edited it with a statement at the end.

Chopper pilot cant switch seats in mid-flight...

Also, one of the factors, that can fook up a tank, is the Blue team mob, which doesnt report/spot enemy activity. A tank is uselss, if he doesnt know, where his enemies are. Thats why we have scout choppers on maps like Sunset and Kufrah, gents

Also, with a crewed tank, you can take shot, pull back, reload and shoot again, while Mr. Solo stops, switches, loads, them gets hit, moves, loads and gets finished off.

Wolfe · Post by **Wolfe** » 2007-08-29 22:26

This issue has been discussed countless times. Without speaking for the devs, I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that the devs are aware of the solo-tanker issue and are doing everything they can to address it.

Unfortunately it takes time, resources, and the BF2 coding has to behave in a manner which does not cause other problems when trying to address another.

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-08-29 22:26

exactly. that's why sometimes solo tanking has it's problems....

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-29 22:27

i tell you this truthfully, if there is turret stabilization, i bet you would see a sharp decline in the population of solo-tankers.

Yes, our main concern... wait for 0.7..
But untill then, switch to F3 as driver to 'stabilise' a tank...little improvising

Also a 4th postion inside the turret for an extra passenger would be nice, since the .50 cal gunners die faster than anything else on the battlefield.

[uBp]Irish · Post by **[uBp]Irish** » 2007-08-29 22:29

yep....it's kinda pointless as a .50 cal gunner too.

stabilizing the turret is something i want to see dealt with, but i rather see other things addressed first. Tanks are death on the ground, helo's are death from the air. pretty much the samething in my opinion.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-29 22:29

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:mines are maded to destroy the tracks or kill the driver , not for fully exploting the tank into pieces .

here's an idea: if you shoot a HEAT in front of your tank, you kill yourself, but not the tank. Can the AT mines be made like that? Of course with some damage to the tank, so it doesnt stay exactly in one piece.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-08-29 22:33

the reson of solotankers are (imho) :

-CITV shaking , you cant keep the cam in one tanrget and moving at the same time (full zoomed)

- no comander/gunner cordination : SCREW VOIP , IS NOT THE SOLUTION ! we need a system that allow the comander to makr a target for the gunner (maybe a heat source that the gunner can see with his view)

-lack of stavilisation : i know that is not fully suported by the bf2 engine , but in poe2 , when you move the body of a apc to the left , the gunner moves to the right sighly (automatic), so you can keep (more or less) your sight on the target

-proper damage : if you are in a 2manned-tank , and you hit FIRST the solotanker , he sould be dead or very damaged , right now if you shoot , the other just turn the turret and kill you .