Map Update Delay

[Artnez[US]]

Often times with tactical reality mods people try to use real life tactics in-game. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't.

Consider PR to be an alternate universe. How would they do combat there if they were constrained by the rules of the BF2 engine (the alternate universe in this case) if the fate of entire nations would depend on the battles that they fought.

They would most certainly use the most effective tactic rather than the most logical tactic.

Just yesterday we were playing Qwai River and our team was getting pummeled. What happened on this map was a perfect example of someone trying to use real life tactics in a way that made no sense at the given time.

We were USA.

We had 1 squad at Mine defending, nothing was going on there.

Everyone else was trying to take back Processing Facility. We were having a lot of trouble. Eventually however, we were able to take back processing.

Just as the flag was being capped, the commander set a landing zone directly in front of the Processing Facility flag (in the open, next to the main entrance to the flag bunker). He then asked squad 1 (the HELO squad) to stage a pickup and landing zone Delta.

Squad 1 was unresponsive.

At that point, he should have asked Squad 9 (my squad) to just hoof it to government office on foot. It would make the most sense considering it's not that far away (by no means Kashan here) and we'd get there in about 5 minutes if we ran.

Instead, we waiting about 10 minutes for the chopper to finally get his act together and show up.

When the chopper was landing, he decided not to fully land. He never touched the ground and hovered. Real littlebirds do this sometimes when they're on the clock and the LZ may be hot. No point in doing it in PR.

So as I come to the hovering chopper, the commander asks him to land. Hovering chopper squashes me, SL down. He spins around and clips another one of my guys and suddenly my grenadier is down. Then he seems like he's taking off then suddenly lands again, squashing my medic. Then he takes off and leaves to main base.

By this time around 20 minutes has passed and I look at my death cam at LZ Delta with 3 dead bodies on it.

So the chopper flies back to main base and commander asks my fallen guys to respawn at main to get in the chopper and join my 2 other squad members who are in the littlebird already.

By the time we spawn in main, Processing Facility was neutralized again. Apparent squads 2 and 3 didn't listen to the commander when he asked them to defend Processing Facility.

Commander asked our squad (the only reliable one apparently) to be dropped off in East of Processing Facility. On the way the way there, the littlebird pilot was flying so low to the ground that an APC took us out.

Our rally point was now taken out, the friendly bunker was down and we had to spawn at main with no APCs, no transports, no helos, but a whole lot of dumb.

In real life, the following would have been the result of the above (depending on the country):

- Commander would have demoted in rank or not be allowed to lead troops every again.

- Helo pilot would be court martialed or executed.

- Squads 2 & 3 would have their squad leaders court martialed or executed, while the squad members would either suffer a demoted rank, dishonorable discharge or worse.

- Squad 9 (my squad) would probably be given a commendation for putting up with a sub-par commander, unresponsive teammates and stupid pilots that ended up getting my squad members killed.

This was all a result of the commander trying to employ a realistic tactic when it was obvious that it would not have went well. Once he saw that squad 1 was being unresponsive, he should have immediately told us to go on foot. Instead, he sacrificed the flag just to pull off a tactic that everyone thinks is "so cool" from watching Black Hawk Down.

Granted - the chopper pilot was bad. If it were a good responsive chopper pilot then nothing bad would have happened.

However, this is just an example of a real life tactic being used in situations when it is inappropriate. Sometimes you just have to take the most logical route to your objective... even if it's a little unrealistic.

How does the above play in to the main topic, you say?

Please keep the map exactly the way it is. It may be unrealistic, but it's the most reasonable way to implement communication and tactical awareness in the BF2 engine.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Sorry Soldier - it can be done in-game with pub-strangers.

I spent a large amount of yesterday doing it, at one point with two guys in the squad who barely spoke english.

Even if you did do it with pub strangers, it doesn't mean it was effective or even in a heavily fought over area. I played in the tournament battle yesterday and the British side had pretty good tactics and organized movements, but that made them all the easier to spot, take out, and kill with both skill and luck. Real life tactics do not work ingame. You can have tactics ingame, but they are molded and suited to the game's fast paced gameplay which will never change. It is so easy for someone to just look around the corner and be shot or be randomly walking and shot that to hold any kind of formation or pre-determined movement is useless. Trust me. I have seen it and seen it proved wrong ingame so many times.


In order to do real life tactics ingame, you would have to know the people so well that you could predict their movements and read their thoughts. Real life troops can do this because they train day and night for it and know each other's body language. You can't replicate that ingame. And even then, you have people that spam nades or randomly shoot and get lucky far too many times or radomly come out of nowhere.


And I agree with Artnez as well.