Map Update Delay

[Masaq]

Disclaimer - I've checked the *** thread and done a google search (keywords: map delay update site:realitymod.com -removal -0.7) and turned up a blank, though I find it hard to believe it's NOT been suggested before:

-----------

Okay, hot on the heels of the minimap removal comes Masqi's suggestion to once again irritate the hell out of 60% of PR's playerbase:

Changes to the Main/M-key Map.

I have no idea if it's hardcoded, doable but a bugger to code, or anything. Basically, I'm posting because I like the idea not because I know anything about whether or not it's actually possible.

Now, this will be very similar (read: identical) to a post I just made in the "Should unit locations be entirely removed from the map?" thread, but I figured I'd actually post it as a suggestion instead of just "this is what I'd like". So:


So, here's the suggestion:

That the "M" map becomes a map that shows the locations of all armoured vehicles, aircraft and squad leaders, after a delay short delay, with the delay time based upon the individual unit's speed.

The idea would be that over any given period, all units on the map would be *roughly* in the area indicated to the map's user, within a given radius.

For example:

Tanks move relatively slowly, so their position could be updated relatively slowly. Aircraft move very quickly, so their position would be updated very quickly. Either way, you don't get an instant fix on their position via your map.

For infantry, only squad leaders would be visible on the map; reflecting the fact that most individual infantrymen are not in continuous radio contact with the chain of command.



The delay in updating the map would represent several elements of realism:

- The delay in communication from an individual unit, through the chain of command and back down again, to every other individual unit.

-The general faffing around and battle-confusion.

-Mistakes in navigation and positional reporting made by individual units

In short; it would further model the so-called "fog of war"; a serious battlefield problem even in today's era of GPS and digital radio communications.


As a result of the system, checking your map would enable an infantryman to know that there's a friendly tank somewhere in his area, but not exactly where it is. (That tank he can hear on the next block over may be the friendly one, it might not...)

Likewise, the tank commander would know that there's a friendly squad tasked to operate in the same area - because he can see the Squad Leader icon on his map - but he doesn't know exactly where the SL is, and he doesn't know exactly where all his troops are.

In order to minimize friendly fire, both the tank and the infantry would have to be wary. The tank has to hold his fire on making visual contact to ensure it's a hostile, and the infantry should stay close to their squad leader in order to help the tank recognise them as part of the infantry unit he should be aware of.


An example of the timings and distances is as follows. These are VERY back of the envelope, m'kay?

0.4 minute update for SLs (30s)
0.3 minute update for heavy vehicles (18s)
0.2 minute update for light vehicles (12s)
0.1 minute update for helicopters (6s)
.03 minute update for jets (2s)

With example speeds and distances as follows (I have no idea to what extent PR currently reflects these relative values, so again - very VERY back of the envelope:


UNIT -> SPEED Kph -> SPEED M/s -> Maximum possible distance from "last reported position" (unit's marker on the map)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MEC Civililan walking ------> 5km/h ----> 1.3m/s -----> 31m
PLA Infantryman jogging -> 20km/h ---> 5.5m/s ----> 132m
MIL T-62 ---------------------> 40km/h ---> 11.1m/s ---> 199m
MEC Vodnik -----------------> 60km/h ---> 16.6m/s ---> 200m
USMC Apache ---------------> 150km/h -> 41.6m/s ---> 250m
GB Eurofighter --------------> 500km/h -> 138.8m/s --> 277m

[hx.bjoffe]

Well, the suggestion is reasonable enough..
Sounds like it may require a heap of work though, if even possible.

[Masaq]

Yeah, I'm thinking it'd be a nightmare to code. Now, if I could just learn how to code in Python I'd try working on it... Sadly, real life gets in the way of even thinking of attempting it, and will for the next 10 months

[Sadist_Cain]

Awesome idea

Puts pressure on people to rely on others and work TOGETHER as a unit with their leader, otherwise they're isolated and alone.

There will of course undoubtedbly be the overwhelming arguement of "waaaah teacher that kid is st00pid I'm too good ot rely on him unless he's my beeeestest friend" but overall I believe that tweaks and fiddles to the navigation system add an awesome element of realism

[LekyIRL]

I like!
Coding could be easy or simple depending on how advanced you want the delay to be.

[BloodBane611]

I 100% like it. It does seem like it would be very challenging/impossible, but if it could be done would be much more realistic than always knowing the exact location of friendlies.

[Masaq]

Well I can see this turning into a FF nightmare like when the minimap was first removed, but eventually people would get used to it. Would your own squad members be visible as they are now?

Depends on the code possibilities, I guess.

If maps *have* to be the same for all players on a side, then you'd have to chose between having it so that you could see no individual squad members or so that you could see all of them.

If the map's state can be dependent on the player's squad as well as their team, then yes, you could make it so that you could see squad members from the same squad but not the SMs of other squads.

Likewise, a commander could view the current position of every unit in the game if that was possible.

---

Yeah, FF would be a nightmare for a few weeks. No more checking the baring and range to a target from your cosy tank, pulling up your map and instantly knowing whether the guy in your crosshairs is a friendly or not.

On the other hand, the threat of FF would force tankers to exercise more care before opening up on infantry units - especially if they know that they have friendlies in the area. You'd possibly find it easier to sneak by a *careful* tank gunner because if he doesn't know if you're friendly, he won't open fire.

[Rudd]

Love it!

also not so love it, hard to see if any1 need a health top up/revive.

This coupled with a deployable UAV would be aces

another counter arguement is that since VOIP is hardcoded you can say the map locations being displayed is like a placeholder.

But overall I think this would be beneficial to the PR experience.

[OwnRize]

I love it - it will indeed make a battlefield realistic even more! I would love the acusations those who are walking alone:
"Yo dude, why are you walking alone? You should be with your squad leader! Thats how you get teamkilled!"

[Heskey]

Well I can see this turning into a FF nightmare like when the minimap was first removed

Oh come off it, whoever had TK problems after minimap removal is either blind or very jumpy.

At close range, you can damn sure tell if it's friend or foe.
At long range, you can tell if it's friend or foe by the distant texture of the uniform.

At EXTREME range, you've got the time to look through your binos and check if it's friend or foe, and if it's still unclear, they're too far away to worry about, and you can keep on truckin'.

[Masaq]

I love it - it will indeed make a battlefield realistic even more! I would love the acusations those who are walking alone:
"Yo dude, why are you walking alone? You should be with your squad leader! Thats how you get teamkilled!"

Exactly! You'd have to stay relatively close to your squad leader to be maximize your chances of being ID'd as friendly by friendly troops.

In addition, it'd also encourage (amoungst clever players) the concepts of co-ordinated movement, areas of operations and zones of control.

A commander could tell two squads assaulting the Estate on Qwai River that they both should assault from the same direction, in order to reduce the risk of FF.

Likewise, he could inform a squad defending Fishing Village that there are no friendly units tasked to support them; and that any units in the area are likely to be enemy. Alternatively, he can pull back all friendly units into the area behind a certain gridline and inform them that any contacts made with units to the West of Delta are definitely hostile (for example), or block off both bridges and inform the team that anyone East of Delta is likely to be friendly.

[OwnRize]

Exactly! You'd have to stay relatively close to your squad leader to be maximize your chances of being ID'd as friendly by friendly troops.

In addition, it'd also encourage (amoungst clever players) the concepts of co-ordinated movement, areas of operations and zones of control.

A commander could tell two squads assaulting the Estate on Qwai River that they both should assault from the same direction, in order to reduce the risk of FF.

Likewise, he could inform a squad defending Fishing Village that there are no friendly units tasked to support them; and that any units in the area are likely to be enemy. Alternatively, he can pull back all friendly units into the area behind a certain gridline and inform them that any contacts made with units to the West of Delta are definitely hostile (for example), or block off both bridges and inform the team that anyone East of Delta is likely to be friendly.

QFT....

[mammikoura]

this sounds like one of the best suggestions in ages! Increases realism and makes teamwork even more usefull.

[Masaq]

Now, anyone familiar with how the map's code works and how it receives locations of units and reports them?

[ReaperMAC]

If it's possible, do it!

[DeePsix]

This is the next step after mini-map removal!

My name is DeePsix and I approve this suggestion.

[Masaq]

Oh come on, someone post a critiscm of it for me to be able to issue a lengthy rebuttal? Pweeeaaaase? You can't *all* like it, surely?

Like I say - we need someone like Nedlands to come along and explain exactly how the map's code works.