My gameplay concept

[DirtyBaz]

Great ideas, not too keen on the slow death when in an enemy flag, if there's no-one around to defend the flag then that's the enemies fault, not mine, why should my health drop? I totally agree with spawning from main base only, but that wouldn't stop spawning on squad leaders? To be completely realistic, you have to eliminate that too. I think this would force people to cover each other and the flags until reinforcements arrive from the main base. There would be some serious allemo type battles!

Love the recon class too, I hope they impliment that in v0.3 with that nice Mk12 rifle.

[mrmong]

i like this idea to i can imagine defending a point with your teammates trying to hold out until reinforcments arrive from the main base

[Malik]

Maybe you should call it 'Sitting Ducks'. I'm no soldier, but it makes no sense that an army would just sit around while they're being attacked by another army, unless they're protecting something more important than their own base, but either way there's little chance they'd just hold their positions against a huge army. Offense is the best form of defense.

[Neuromante]

Neuromante,

First, let me applaud you on your English. It not being your first language, you express yourself well.

Thanks.

You know, you sounded like you were just afraid for the game becoming "too realistic" for you, without having any real point to oppose to my ideas.

As for the vehicles: yeah, tards will exist as long as men do, but I hardly find any on PR. I guess it's because of it's nature, PR attracts more mature people and I enjoy that. The fact is, people underestimate vehicles. If you let your hummvee be turned to rubble just because you'd get one in just a few seconds by teleporting (yeah, that's what respawning is about) there's something wrong. Since I strongly believe that increasing respawn times isn't the answer to this (this actually desrupt squad tactics), having to drive a new one from the base to there, while avoiding threats such as RPGs or land mines seems to me a reasonable compromise between realism and gameplay. Plus, having to drive new vehicles to the front promotes the creation of proper convoys, thing that you hardly see on PR (at least on public servers).

Then, instant respawning encourages rambo type tactics just when the setting favours them. On lots of the Red Orchestra servers the respawn time is set to 5 seconds, but you have to walk sometimes for 20-30 seconds to reach the combat zone. Plus, when weapons handle realistically and a single bullet is more than enough to kill you, you don't have that many chances to go rambo.

Snipers should stay, at least in my concept. High priority targets can be Medics, Anti Tank soldiers, Engineers. Basically any class that gets a special ability that doesn't have directly to do with combat or that has anything to do with disabling or repairing vehicles and structures. Squad Leaders can easily be recognised (most of times they actually "lead" the squad while advancing). Sometimes you'd even get a chance to pick off the enemy commander, if you go deep into the enemy territory. (Altough I don't know how to make this compatible with my idea about losing health while staying into an enemy main (thus uncappable) base.
People who want to snipe should join two-men sniper squads. While one acts as a spotter the other one snipes, and vice versa. Looks like we'd be able to do that quite effectively in 0.3 . But, if you just want to go lone wolf, you should be able to do that. Being free to do whatever you want is what the BF series is about, that shouldn't be touched.

AAS. I don't like it because, specially on large maps, it takes away much of the freedom you can have. Shouldn't you, your Squad Leader or your Commander decide what's the more appropriate order to secure the objectives you've got? Altough I don't like many things from the BF series, I have to admit that a big effort in trying to implement the "chain of command" was made, and now that we got the tools to actually co-ordinate a huge battle what do we do? We make a step back and say that people have to follow a path that we lay in front of them. That's not what I'd expect from a "Reality Mod".

Capping flags in a random order usually occurs in vBF2, where frontlines simply do not exist. I know what happens on public servers, usually the guy with the faster-loading machine boards the closest FAV and swoops away, in an attempt to capture a forward flag, get points and have his whole team teleport there. Since my concept doesn't allow respawning at flags, getting one will get you nowhere, unless you have the means to defend it. Frontlines are automatically created, because people actually advances, and don't pop out from nowhere.

Diverse kits: No, no and no. Limiting the people's possibilities is never good. If you want to snipe, go ahead and do it! If you want to hunt tanks, grab the AT kit and start playing! The only way to stop people from taking the same kit is getting rid of AAS. I strongly believe that we shouldn't go back to the normal flag madness either, bacause of the mentioned issues. My concept creates a virtual battle environment that actually resembles a real one, and honestly seems to me the only way to go. Think about it. You'd be able to plan missions like this: Your team is on Attack. Recon reports from sniper teams to the Commander reveal that a certain flag area is guarded by an IFV and a bunch of troops. They start with picking off priority targets (possible SLs, AT soldiers, engineers that may lay mines and medics). This forces the rest of them to take cover inside the vehicle and around the buildings near the flag. Then you and your squad, that you previously asked to take these kits (Two Assaults, an AT guy, a Medic, a Support gunner and an Engineer) board a jeep and reach the flag zone. Your troops dismount, except you and the engineer that's on the gunner position. The AT guy from your squad quietly takes position unseen, deploys the missile launcher. The enemy IFV driver gets the warning tone, pops smoke and attempts an evasive maneuver but it's too late. He is hit and is forced to get out of the disabled vehicle along with the troops. Meanwhile, you drive the jeep to a position where your .50 gunner can give support to your now advancing troops. It's a matter of seconds, and your squad have finally killed the enemy. Two of your soldiers died in the process, but are able to respawn to your position, since you have preserved the jeep (squad vehicle). Now you got to hold that position. The engineer lays some mine, while the AT places himself on the side of the road that gives access to the flag. The sniper team continues to provide recon, while the commander drops supplies on your position and you finally cap the flag without having to worry about people popping there out by respawning. The question is: Could have this happened with AAS? Maybe on a 16 players server, surely not while facing a full 32 players team, all of them stacked on that same flag. Could have this happened with AAS as part of a much larger battle? No way.

You see now that possibilities are endless, and while scrapping out the flag concept inherited by BF2, it creates a much more reactive, changing and lifelike environment, at the expences of... Nothing, while solving issues like Star Trek-like tricks and spawncamping (you know, it's not really about "taking out frontline troops", it's about racking up more kills and thus raising your score and "rank").

Oh, and I strongly believe that things like this divide those mods\games who fade away from those who are then remembered for being truly innovative.

Damn, I wrote too much again. ??:


@ DirtyBaz: You'd lose health just when camping in or going through an enemy Non-Cappable Flag(= Enemy Main Base, the only place you are allowed to respawn, other than inside SL driven vehicles) for more than 10 seconds, meaning that you won't be able to sit there with your mates, maybe with a couple of tanks turkeyshooting the enemy team. It's so frustrating when it happens to you and boring when it happens to them, and involves absolutely no skill or thinking of any kind.

@ Exdeath: I think something similar can be achieved by map design alone. All you have to do is create a large base in the editor, set it as a non-cappable flag, create another flag far from the base for the other team and set it as uncappable too. Then just set the defenders' tickets to 100 and the attackers' to 200, or whatever time you want the battle to last for. Altough I find it an interesting idea, creating a new thread for that would be more appropriate.

[Top_Cat_AxJnAt]

Long,, alittle confusing but i get the message and it is right. i PLACE THE following in here because i felt that it was not worth starting a New topic.
BUT IF YOU FEEL THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER PLACED IN THE MAIN SUGGESTIONS PLEASE SAY SO. thanks

A NEW SQUAD SYSTEM:
- 1 main SL
- 6 regulars
- 1 half SL

- with 8 being the maximum

THE REQUIREMENTS - many that have been mentioned before
- a more advance system fo SL's to give orders, they can set 3 way points and then an attack order when men reach a point. This uses the map
- a more advanced quick order system with important and vital imdiated orders e.g. stop firing, cover that position, find cover, move there.
- However it would also be enhance dif when you join a squad you can easily just be a regualr soldier and you will not become a SL if poeple start dropping out ext. TO BECOME AN SL or half SL you have to select that particular box and if it is not filled a invite message will appear at the players who have the displayed best teamwork.

THE MAIN POINT:
THe main SL can issue orders using the map, number of waypoint ext.
He can also issue imdiate orders and explained above.
He is also a spwn point for the whole squad.

The half SL can only issue imdiate orders and not ones through the map.
He is also an spwn point for the whole squad.

THE REASONS:
THe reason the the whole above system is to have 2 four man fireteams each with a leader who can issue immdiate order. This makes a single squad far more effective and increases realism hugely for the followign reasons:

- Squads are larger and therefore can make larger attacts which are more realistic that 6 man assult.
- Squads are more flexable, able to attact/ defend the same position but from 2 directions easily and with good team work in each fireteam.
- Squads are more potent as there are too spwn points in a squad, this mean coupled with the first point makes squads a more attractive option and a far more deadly weapon.

EXTRA NOTES:
- The half SL is only in a squad that has 6 or more men because otherwise his affect of squad is limited and most cases negative towards effective team work.
- The main SL can issue orders on the map for each indervidual fire team.

OBVIOUS but i would be extremely gratefull if YOU could this pcik this idea apart, problems, enhancements ext. thank alot.

[willgar]

There is a mod called tactical gamer (i think) which has a few very good ideas but becuase they have not released server side - you can rarely get a game (well at least in europe).

When a flag starts to be captured - the spawn is immeditely unavaliable to the defenders. The capture still takes a long time but attackers must stay within the smaller cap zone. This promotes an active defence of flags and seems to promote better gameplay.

Also, support cant infintely spawn ammo / grenades (on a timer) a bit like PRMM .3.

Would recommend the PRMM team check it out - has some nice features.