Project Reality Forums

Pence wrote:
Source?

Im sorry i was incorrect. the f 14 can engage up to 6 simultaneous targets at a range of 115 miles

http://www.voodoo.cz/tomcat/arm.html

six7 wrote:Im sorry i was incorrect. the f 14 can engage up to 6 simultaneous targets at a range of 115 miles

http://www.voodoo.cz/tomcat/arm.html

I dont see why thies weapons cannot be used on other aircraft.

Nice find anyway.

no one can afford it,
Phoenix missile that gave the F-14 it's incredible long reach was also meant for bombers originally and not so much against fighters. That and they cost almost 10 times as much as smaller dogfight missiles.

Zepheris Casull wrote:no one can afford it,
Phoenix missile that gave the F-14 it's incredible long reach was also meant for bombers originally and not so much against fighters. That and they cost almost 10 times as much as smaller dogfight missiles.

Its capability is irelivent?

I'll pop in for a slight history adjustment: The six day war was won by israel against MASSIVE amounts of opponents. like... 4 to 1 or 5 to 1. Superior tanks helped a little, superior planes helped a bit, but mostly ,the israeli strategy kicked ***, and all thier troops were trained WAAAY better than almost all of the arab troops. also, israel had some good info from spies, and the arab countries made numerous large scale strategical blunders (like each country fighting israel alone at seperate times, instead of all at once).

Figisaacnewton wrote:I'll pop in for a slight history adjustment: The six day war was won by israel against MASSIVE amounts of opponents. like... 4 to 1 or 5 to 1. Superior tanks helped a little, superior planes helped a bit, but mostly ,the israeli strategy kicked ***, and all thier troops were trained WAAAY better than almost all of the arab troops. also, israel had some good info from spies, and the arab countries made numerous large scale strategical blunders (like each country fighting israel alone at seperate times, instead of all at once).

Lets stay on topic now.

Pence wrote:The MEC use the T-90.

That's not a realistic tank for them to have though. DICE just put it in because it's a modern MBT that isn't made by the U.S. or it's allies. I highly doubt Russia would just export this tank.

lonelyjew wrote:That's not a realistic tank for them to have though. DICE just put it in because it's a modern MBT that isn't made by the U.S. or it's allies. I highly doubt Russia would just export this tank.

Well they use it, mabey Russia could not resist the oil that the MEC offer, or Russia is an allie of the MEC or as everyone keeps saying - Russia goes almost bankrupt and decides to jump on every finacial deal possable.

then they might as well be selling their high yield fusion warheads.

Them selling T-90s would be akin to US selling the F-22, could happen.. yeah.. but unless they were really pushed, very unlikely. That and since the rusky were in the spec ops expansion and they don't seems to be that desperate, i'd say they would not sell their most advanced MBT like that. Let's face it, DICE simply popped it in coz it's the latest T series tank that we civilians have some info on albeit very sketchy.

and regarding phoenix missiles, current BVR missiles technology and the shift in trend away from nuclear bombers back in 1960-1970s pretty much renders it obsolete.

Figisaacnewton also made a point relevant to the topic, Israel is without doubt the most militarrily capable country in that part of the world. In the event of an MEC birth, they are also one of the first country to likely retaliate or striked at. In the event of a conflict, IDF also stand a very good chance of fighting them into a standstill assuming they maintained a high alert status (which they pretty much are due to their non stop conflict). Hence it would make sense to include them in a near future war scenario, and plus Israel are known to have an array of impressive locally designed and built hardware.

Things like Merkava, Namera, Achzarit are just some of the examples. Merkava in particular is something that would be a dream come true for me to drive around in.

Zepheris Casull wrote:then they might as well be selling their high yield fusion warheads.

Thanks for the props about israel, but you do know that as we speak, Russia is helping Iran build nukes, right?

Pence, I really don't see how you're having so much trouble understanding why Israel would not just fold. There is a big difference between a professional army, and a good professional army. A newly formed army is never going to just be good because of it's size or it's recources, especially when the countries that form it are probably reluctant to do so(the middle easter nations don'tt exactly get along with eachother). It would take them years to train competant officers, train their soldiers, and and coordinate all their recources to make a truly formidable army.

Russia in WWII is a good example of a army with vast recources, but little else. Thanks to Stalin killing of all of Russia's experianced officers that had either fought in WWI or the Russian Revolution, the Russian army was terribly disorganized. Against the German forces at the start of their war in 1941 they had kill death rations of 1:10. In the end though, Russia had the recources to fight an ongoing war which Germany didn't. It also helped that Russian troops and officers did gain much experiance from 1941 to 1943, enough to be able to turn the tide of the war. In the end, even if D-Day hadn't happened, Germany would have lost, attacking a country with vastly superior recources, population, and size is never smart.

Now, I think this is a good analogy between Israel(germany) and the MEC(russia). Israel is the army that had damn good equipment, experianced soldiers and officers, and proven tactics. The MEC, like Russia, would be a force of vast recources and soldiers, but little in the name of modern arms, well trained soldiers, and experianced officers. This is all beside the fact that the U.S. is more than willing to step in and whipe the MEC forces of the planet.

This is the whole reason I don't like BF2 to be thought of as WW3, but rather skermishes between two armies because of extremely high tensions. I meen, honestly, there is no way that the MEC could every compare to the combined US armed forces, nor could they stand up to a coalition of forces by the US, Great Britain, Canada, Israel and our other strong allies. China is a different story, though that's not on the floor.

But anyways, the MEC would not just magically gain good training, modern weaponry(they'de have some, but not way too much and nothing brand new), and competant officers. They wouldn't gain this because before hand, Israel would attack them. They would fight before they ever got to their full strength.

Figisaacnewton: i've heard of speculations on it, but not confirmations. I do believe they are helping iran, but in my oppinion, they will only assist the manufacturing of the basic components of the warhead and i don't think even the rusky is crazy enough to sell the design of their best fusion warheads. Low yield tactical fission warheads? maybe.. they could care less if iran has it, but high yield strategic fusion warheads??? I am sure they are not that suicidal.

lonelyjew wrote: But anyways, the MEC would not just magically gain good training, modern weaponry(they'de have some, but not way too much and nothing brand new), and competant officers. They wouldn't gain this because before hand, Israel would attack them. They would fight before they ever got to their full strength.

How come they are the Profetional force they are then?
I am baseing it on the in-game story at the moment, look from the point of view that the MEC are just as good and twice as large.

Anyway i am starting to beleave you. America, being the giant it is, has a verry good fighting force but they are not as well trained or well equiped as the British armed forces.
What i am saying is, it is just the same as the MEC and Isreal (That you have explained to me).

I still think PR would benifit from a larger country that is not in the Middle East (A larger array of maps).

MEC is there coz DICE think it's convinient and since i am sure they think that some sort of middle eastern arab country representation is needed.

Realistically, with most of the possible fictional MEC members hostile to israel in the real world, israel will strike first at the first sign of their formation and end it before they become consolidated.

As to why they are a good addition, it's because as stated before:
a. they are one of the most likely foe to the MEC.
b. they have an impressive array of hardware both local and foreign.
c. they have a combat proven strong army in the form of IDF.

Is there alternative to other possible army to be included? yes, but:
a. very few of them are involved in a war, german, france, etc..
b. following the point above, justifying their inclussion aint gonna be easy.
c. the smaller countries which are involved in conflicts in other part of the world in general uses weapons exported, most likely either russians or americans, redundant hardwares is not a very good idea especially since we've thrown in a number of russian and american hardwares.
d. these smaller countries also stand zero chance of winning against a country such as US or even the current weakened russia.

^^ the MEC could survive during formation if say... China protected them in their infancy in exchange for oil producing land.
could explain a MEC/Chinese alliance

Why do China and MEC never fight?
I have always wondered this.

'[R-DEV wrote:Happy']Why do China and MEC never fight?
I have always wondered this.

I believe it is because this is supposed to be a WW3 scenario. The only thing bf2 does incorrectly is forget US would have allies (well, untill euro force anyways). China and MEC won't fight because they are direclty interdepenent on each other, and a lot of storylines place US intervention in MEC oil capabilites pissing off China and pushing them over the limit.

I've always thought of China and the MEC to be mutual firends but not really allies. By that I mean they don't really share technology or anything like that out of good faith. Only trade resources and some intelligence that may benefit the war against the U.S. This is why they don't attack each other.

Also I think strenght in numbers would be the key to the MEC and China. We all know China has the largest population in the world. In fact without China there would probably be 4.5 to 5.0 billion people rather than 6.0+ billion. I think India has a pretty large population too. I would have to assume India may have joined the MEC. Currently they are the only other country other than Russia to operate T-90 tanks. You read that in the link provided below.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/t90/

I think it makes some slight sense there. This would help explain how the MEC gathered T-90 tanks. I would prefer though if the AK-101 was replaced with a 7.62 caliber weapon instead. We could go with the classic AK-47, or perhaps newer versions such as the AK-103 and AK-108. Or even the G3A3 would be perfect for the role. I just think it seems a little off for a middle-east country to use a NATO 5.56 caliber weapon.

Zepheris Casull wrote:MEC is there coz DICE think it's convinient and since i am sure they think that some sort of middle eastern arab country representation is needed.

So your saying, take the MEC out?

I would have to assume India may have joined the MEC.

Seik (spelling) is the religion in India, India and Pakistani people dont like each other, i cant see India being part of the MEC because of this. In-fact i think India should not be spoken of.

c. they have a combat proven strong army in the form of IDF.

Has this already been coverd?


Isreal would be owned. If you think otherwise its like saying Denmark could rise up and take on Mainland Europe.

I love the idea, would be cool to see something like Israel in the mod.
Plus if you guys want i could donate some models i already have like Merkava 4 tank and IFV's that the IDF use, all in BF2's mesh, plus i could help out with info.

Good idea.