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Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-07 16:18
by AnRK
Taliban funded by the Russians? I know they were pretty well funded by the USA and UK and probably a couple of others a fair while back, but Russia? Can't imagine them wanting to fund a group of people that are gonna be a liiitle bit sore at them for invading their country. God knows what goes on with international relations sometimes though so I wouldn't be surprised.

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-07 16:53
by Snazz
^He may of been referring to the CIA funding the Mujahideen.

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-07 17:29
by Rangu
Really nice looking map, keep it up! ;)

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-07 18:30
by Khidr
Thanks for the positive feedback guys. I'm not sure I feel more inspired but I definitely feel more pressured, either way I am still plugging away and that is a good thing.

Remember - terrain deviation is your friend! small ditches and micro gradient changes especially in the dense wooded areas is what makes infantry combat so interesting I think in the woodlands.
Yes I am very familiar with the Random/Smooth combo. Funny story in fact. When this map was at maybe 10% WIP, I proceed to cover the entire 2km x2km with a smooth brush size of maybe 3-4. This took me two evenings(+12 hours) to complete this. This is the first time I have ever suffered hand pains from using a mouse. Anyways I then discover a "wall" on the last row of pixils on my map. No matter what I do I cannot lower this wall. Soon I am unable to compile the map in order to view the changes ingame. I spend the next 2 days(+16 hours) trying to package the map. Now remember I am still a total BF2Editor noob, so really I don't have a clue what is going on. I will say that this persistance of banging my head against this wall is what pushed me over the editor's "learning curve". Patience is more than a virtue and thinking things through before you execute them will save you many hours of pain when working with the editor.

To finish this rant, I eventually came to the conclusion/assumption that I had gone too hardcore breaking up the terrain and the editor could not handle it. I pulled up a backup heightmap with the original unpocketed terrain(which did not have the wall at the time) and resumed mapping. Only later did I learn(thanks to Richy) that my "wall" was a result of my Surrounding Terrain and thus had nothing to do with my random terrain adjustments.

So yes Fuzz, I will massage the terrain but not for a long time. I need a break from that job and also I would rather just do that in high traffic/combat areas instead of the entire map.


Also guys, please drop the faction debates until I at least propose and layout my storyline. Then you can rip it to shreds and we can see where this map will best fit.

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-07 19:18
by SocketMan
I agree assets/factions are much less difficult then the actual map.
I am no mapper but this works with a lot of things:take a break and stop plugging at it
continuously,when that happens the focus becomes too narrow and solutions that
would usually be seen very quickly just disappear.Take a (quick) break (few days) from it,develop some "hunger" and when you look at it next time - you'll see solutions that weren't visible before - because of plugging away at it from one "direction".
Like a car that gets stuck on the snow -keep hitting the gas pedal and the wheels just keep spinning,when
all that needs to be done is to put the gear in revers.

Re: [Map]Ursa Initiative[Map]

Posted: 2009-05-07 21:14
by IronTaxi
[R-DEV]CodeRedFox wrote:Just make a cool map worry about the other **** like factions and stuff later.
totally agree.. always great to play out the storyline in your head..but dont actually worry too much about what the final layout will be asset wise..

looks good.. push the envelope .... we can worry about optimization later.. :)

I just drove through northern ontario on my way to Vancouver.. and it looks spot on..

nice one.. you arent from thunder bay are you? :P

ps.. im always around to help out.. feel free to contact me as needed...

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-07 22:47
by AnRK
Snazz wrote:^He may of been referring to the CIA funding the Mujahideen.
Yeah I re-read his post and didn't read it properly the first time at all. Russians flogging the Taliban as many AKs and RPGs to them as possible after being at war with the buggers seemed a little silly...

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 00:17
by Khidr
That is a very long drive Iron Taxi. What felt longer, Northern Ontario or the Prairies?
I've done that trip a few time visiting family in Thunder Bay to Sault Ste Marie. Although similar, the inspiration for this map comes from BC in the Kootaneys.

*****



As for help, nothing is keeping me from progressing on the map but there are some things I will need to deal with. I'll start noting them down.

1. Need the lightmap samples for Quinling Water plane.
CFR told me they would be included in the next release cycle but I don't know if he meant 0.86 or 0.9.

2.
Battlefield 2 Editor - Objects Directory: http://www.armoryclan.net/cpg143/index.php
Any chance you can revive this link Rhino? I think this would help out a lot.

3. On a day map, can I get my tunnels and underground bunkers to be very dark/black except where the static light sources are? Or can you only achieve this effect on night maps?

4. Do the ambient statics( ex waterfalls, smoke plumes) lag up players at all? Should these be limited in numbers? If so what is a rough estimate?

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 03:48
by aperson444
Good Work! I would definitely like to see this map in PR.

Wouldn't the militia most likely be armed with hunting and semi-auto rifles, and a few requestable automatic rifles on the side?
Taliban funded by the Russians? I know they were pretty well funded by the USA and UK and probably a couple of others a fair while back, but Russia?
Taliban was funded by the CIA. The US bought Soviet weapons from somewhere and shipped them to Pakistan, who shipped the weapons to the Muj. These militias could easily buy arms of the world market. It would be cool to see a faction with some legal, hunting/semi-auto rifles and those military rifles.

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 06:32
by IronTaxi
K:h:i :d :r:;1016212 wrote:That is a very long drive Iron Taxi. What felt longer, Northern Ontario or the Prairies?
I've done that trip a few time visiting family in Thunder Bay to Sault Ste Marie. Although similar, the inspiration for this map comes from BC in the Kootaneys.

Northern ontario by far is the worst.. I've driven it like 3 times now and it always suxs...

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 09:53
by marcoelnk
3. On a day map, can I get my tunnels and underground bunkers to be very dark/black except where the static light sources are? Or can you only achieve this effect on night maps?

4. Do the ambient statics( ex waterfalls, smoke plumes) lag up players at all? Should these be limited in numbers? If so what is a rough estimate?
3 .as for LM : you can have the tunnel objects very dark while leaving objects over ground bright by simply generating LM for them with different settings .
change the settings so as to fit the tunnels for example then select all the tunnel objects that should be LMed dark , go to compile - generate LM - "trace selected" .
To make the terrain inside the tunnels darker than outside you probably have to play around with the GI fill intenisty ( turn it down ) in the terrain LMs.

4: you shouldnt have more than 350 dynamic obects on your map ( oncluding destr. ones) afaik. it will result in issues (ctd etc.) it does affect performance of course but not to a great extent ( afaik)

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 13:06
by sandgamer
Hello fellow mappers,

can we get some clarification here, please:
1. Need the lightmap samples for Quinling Water plane.
CFR told me they would be included in the next release cycle but I don't know if he meant 0.86 or 0.9.
Some of you might now that i played around with custom water lately, for those that don't: to keep it short i did some waterplanes on my own.

In this matter i checked out the quinling water plane and others as a reference.

from the qinling_waterplane_2.tweak:
GeometryTemplate.doNotGenerateLightmaps 1
(this setting is not present in vbf2 water-planes)

As far as i know there is no need for lightmaps or sample files on water, as they only reflect the envmap that has to be manually copied to the water-folder (after generating envmaps in the editor).

???
cheers,
sg

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 14:38
by Rhino
No waterplanes do need lightmaps generated for them for shadows casted on the water, in fact without lightmaps generated for them they wont even work correctly.
K:h:i :d :r: wrote:1. Need the lightmap samples for Quinling Water plane.
CFR told me they would be included in the next release cycle but I don't know if he meant 0.86 or 0.9.
here you go: http://realitymodfiles.com/rhino/static ... es_LMS.rar

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 14:55
by Igloo35
what about moving the canadian forces to all the militia positions and swap out the militia for the russians . it could be something to the effect of the russian army takes half of (NW)canada and the smaller canadian army launches a last attempt at taking back the nation using the cave rally as a launching point ?

you could rename it Operation Henderson lol

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 16:29
by Khidr
3 .as for LM : you can have the tunnel objects very dark while leaving objects over ground bright by simply generating LM for them with different settings .
change the settings so as to fit the tunnels for example then select all the tunnel objects that should be LMed dark , go to compile - generate LM - "trace selected" .
To make the terrain inside the tunnels darker than outside you probably have to play around with the GI fill intenisty ( turn it down ) in the terrain LMs.
Good to know. I was going to try this but I was not sure if it would work. I will expand on this though.

Does the lightsetting(sky.com) have any influence on the way the lightmaps are created? And I mean while generating them, not what they look like after and you change around the lightsettings.

4: you shouldnt have more than 350 dynamic obects on your map ( oncluding destr. ones) afaik. it will result in issues (ctd etc.) it does affect performance of course but not to a great extent ( afaik)
I know about the destructible limit, what I wanted clarification on is whether the smoke/fire/water effects fall under the the same restrictions.


***

Thanks for the lightmaps Rhino, any chance on getting the staticobjects directory pdf?

***

Igloo you need to see the bigger picture. What you are suggesting will happen in episode #6.
So again, chill the debate on faction speculations.

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 16:37
by Rhino
[quote=""'[R-CON"]marcoelnk;1016467']3 .as for LM : you can have the tunnel objects very dark while leaving objects over ground bright by simply generating LM for them with different settings .
change the settings so as to fit the tunnels for example then select all the tunnel objects that should be LMed dark , go to compile - generate LM - "trace selected" .
To make the terrain inside the tunnels darker than outside you probably have to play around with the GI fill intenisty ( turn it down ) in the terrain LMs. [/quote]


generating objects with separate settings is a bad idea... Just use GI lights to do most of your sky lighting, with a low GI fill intensity, this way anything above ground will be bright and anything far away from any light will be really dark.

http://bfeditor.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1783


[quote="K:h:i :d :r:""]Thanks for the lightmaps Rhino, any chance on getting the staticobjects directory pdf?[/quote]

not from me no, just look though all the objects in the object editor.

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 16:40
by marcoelnk
'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino;1016779']generating objects with separate settings is a bad idea... Just use GI lights to do most of your sky lighting, with a low GI fill intensity, this way anything above ground will be bright and anything far away from any light will be really dark.

http://bfeditor.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1783
well it works either way... i dont see why it would be a bad idea to generate with different settings.

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-08 18:11
by Rhino
miss matching of lighting and dynamic shadows wouldn't blend etc.

Re: [Map] Ursa Initiative [WIP]

Posted: 2009-05-09 23:23
by Khidr
I've begun round two adding more vegetation to the map but I have run into a small issue.

The game crashes because I am using the wheat_grid_5m and wheat_grid_10m . It's all good when I take them out.
I'm using them somewhat as a placeholder but will these statics be fixed for 0.9?