Project Reality Forums

For a complicated mod you can indeed learn so much from the manual. That's why people tell newbies to read it. If after reading that someone still has an issue people are more than willing to help, but it's natural to get bored if you get the same question asked again and again.

I understand the frustrations on both sides, the newbie ( I was one once ) and the vet ( I am one now ). I read the manual and hit up a training server before playing in any of the ranked competative servers. I had questions that I did not find in the manual or needed a deeper clarification on what I read in the manual. That's fine in my eyes. I think vets have a problem when somoeone asks such a simple question thats stated on page 3 of the manual. As a vet, I'm not being snobby if I ask someone to read the manual first. That's just common sense, before playing read the book...stop being lazy (unless ur iliterate).

Now as for the comments about the learning curve. PR is striving to produce a mod that mimics a true milsim experience. Of course the learning curve is steep. PR is not for every FPS fan, its for the hardcore tactical milsim FPS fans. It weaves out lone wolfs and Rambo players and keeps only the most serious of gamers. KUDOS!

So now, with all that being said...since PR is striving to emulate a milsim as close as possible...how many ppl pick up a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator...not read the manual...not practice and learn the ins and outs of the game dynamics and still be successful? None. If someone wants a quick and easy game to learn...stick to vBF2. I for one managed to brave the learning curve because the mod is definitely awesome! Heck, I'm still learning. I find vets do not mind giving advice that can not be found in the manual or expand on what is mentioned in the manual.

Kasp

I think on a scale you could roughly place PR at the realism end but it's not too hardcore.

Arcade---------------------------------Sim
TF2---CoD4---BF2----------PR------Arma

It's natural for it not to be amazingly accessible but if people just take things step by step, learn how to play as a rifleman first then use training servers for vehicles it really isn't that hard to pick up. And of course reading the manual and referring to it before asking anything that seems simple is a good idea, because so much is covered by it.

In terms of weapons handling, CoD4 is lightyears ahead of BF2, Masterbake. I'd put CoD4 higher than BF2 on that scale.

Who ever wrote that thing in wikipedia propably didn't have a mic....

I have found "vets" to be very helpful and willing to guide new players along.

[R-DEV]Katarn wrote:In terms of weapons handling, CoD4 is lightyears ahead of BF2, Masterbake. I'd put CoD4 higher than BF2 on that scale.

COD4 is easier to play tho and much more arcadey. The maps are much smaller for a start.

People do complain about how vets are treated but i think ther are many people in this community who would be considered vets who never read the game manual. The game isnt that hard to get the grasp of. Frankly all these newbies need to do is get a mic and listen to the squad leaders orders and they will do fine. People complain about how the community is elitist and how they are impatient- but i dont usually have time for people who dont have a mic anyway let alone if they dont follow orders which is what so many new guys do. I understand ther are different skill levels and i would never kick people from my squad just because they cant shoot straight. However i will kick people if they dont listen to orders or stay with squad leaders. In my experiences squad leaders who are considered vets will lose patience with people who dont listen. Also people who dont read the manual need to stop taking special kits. How many times do you get someone whos new saying they can use something like a grenadier and then just missing horribly- too many times.

I think that in the past 6months to a year the community has been to focused on getting new players into the game- ie advertising on splash screen and that has been effecting the quality of gameplay that we get on public servers- which has declined rapidly.

Although the criticsm initially dosent seem to be the best type of pr - for PR -, it does have a good side: it will filter out most of the Rambo players out there.

I read the manual. I enjoy reading manuals for games.

Tell me, isn't ARMA 2 manual important? And how many people in game can explain me what does "Unavailable due to squad limitations" or "All of these kits have been issued"? I DO agree that the manual teaches everything, but it also avoid frustation in-game, as you already know what to do and when to do: you just get better in-game.

btw, they are making a training kind of map or something, I believe. I wonder if it's only a single player weapons training or if it includes a noob kind of training (ex.how to be a medic, or how to be a good SM and follow orders from your SL).
I remember reading somewhere, someone said "It isn't working! The medic bag isn't dropping from my hands!". It is funny to read, but if you read the manual (which only takes 15 minutes, good for during download reading or bathroom reading (not the one that you are thinking...))

Anyways the community in-game is pretty cool. How many times have a fellow squad help me out (or vice-versa?), most recent was AJson, in Kashan. AJson you there??

anyways, all it comes down to is this: to be a player, play the game (and hope your SL is a damn nice guy, which would make his SM and himself help you out, normally by telling the vets down). If you wanna be a GOOD player, read the manual. If you wanna be an excelent player (gameplay-wise), do both of them. If you wanna be a superb player (skill-wise), play with a good squad on a real server. It's not the person that makes a game bad, it's the SL and how he treats the new guy: make him follow orders. If he doesn't, THEN tell him he didn't undersand the essence of PR.


As a conclusion, first stop is the manual. This avoids a lot of frustation due to the different gameplay pace offered by PR.
After that, a real server in a nice squad (if you are infantrymen).
Training servers are ideal for MOS training (marksman, grenadier...) and vehicles.


A good player reads and does everything he can to be a better player. That includes reading TTP2 for ARMA 2, for example.

NYgurkha wrote:I dont know how, but i managed to stumble upon the PR page on wikipedia and was pleasantly surprised that there was one.

What was really strange was that there was a paragraph for criticism towards PR:



who knew?

For people who like realistic warfare games PR is for them, for those who like the fast paced CSS games its not.

Cassius wrote:The mod isnt for everyone, just like about any game isnt for everyone. The same can be said for ARMA and Operation flashpoint, however who prefers a gameplay like in nilla or counterstrike probably wont toutch these games.
If all you play is straightforward shooters about every other genre has a steep learning curve compared to the mentioned games.

I and many others were sorely dissapointed about the gameplay of BF2.
The reason this mod exists is that previews videos and other material released by EA painted the game as something it is not.

I feel the mod quite successfully blends the simulation feel of ARMA or operation flashpoint, with the accessability and playability of BF2, it feels like a simulation, but vehicles are still easily controllable with a bit of practice and you get to respawn after you die.
I know of no other game which even attempted such a blend.



you dont shed a good light on norway XD .

I agree, but just because you like PR doesn't mean you can't like other non-realistic games such as CSS, TF2, COD4, etc. The problem comes when the "elitist" players of PR as I like to call them, come on and start jumping on the bandwagon that everything "realistic" should be put in the game (for better or worst) for the better even though they don't understand the engine or what makes PR great. The mods almost at 1.0, and I can still tell you that no matter what you make realistic, you can still get around it and spam it up like vanilla just because that is the way the BF2 engine is. So what the guy said is pretty true IMO, especially with the implimentation of Mumble now and some server outlawing non Mumble users which turns a lot of players off. But the DEVs still work really hard at the game and there are also a lot of vets that just play the game because we like the mix of BF2 with realism, but without going overboard on the realism part. Plus, you could simply glaze over the manual and have of your questions would be answered easily rather than asking. I don't see the problem with answering questions ingame, especially since I am sure most of us spam up the typing once in a while lol.

But everything realistic should be put into the game.......

LithiumFox wrote: But everything realistic should be put into the game.......

As a soldier who's gone round killing many ingame humans, I would expect to be respawned as a dog. Put this in 0.87 plz.

steep learning curve, lol. let me think what the game is portraying, military conflict. Now i'm no expert as i haven't done any proper training but is the learning curve not a bit steep too? i mean, can you rock up as a recruit and then in a week you're able to operate all the weapon systems, execute all the tactical movements, know all the protocols for comms etc.... my guess is no.

over the past week i had a few newbs on a server, one went commander and was asking how to do scans and UAVs etc, i guessed he was new and explained the changes quickly, and suggested he joined an infantry squad to get a feel for things before jumping in the command seat.

its all personal preference and tolerance, from both newbs and vets.

and that critism block has no sources, and seems just like someones opinion

Anyone else read the discussion page? This is what the editor wrote:

New Criticism section

I've added a new section under reception. The information is verifiable but unsourced as I doubt it is likely to be disputed. If it is disputed, I can dig through the Project Reality forums to find countless instances of the described responses, but would prefer not to have to spend time doing this. WastelandSoldier (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:03, 12 June 2009 (UTC).

have him spend the time... he'll find warnings on most if not all those responses anyway...

i never really understood where people think we just allow people to simply be complete ******** to new people.

Sure the read the manual response comes out often but I dont think we are in the wrong for requesting one reads the manual to our game.... most times "read the manual" is said, it is when someone is new and asks the forums "What all should I do??"

I never read the manual, but then i am not a fool, i just picked it up as i went along, if you get a good squad leader you are allright. Just over confident noobs can often wreak a game by thinking they can command in PR same as in BF2.

Still the crits a bit harsh

I really don't think people in PR are elitist towards new players. The unfortunate fact is that not many new people are coming in to PR, and the ones that do are probably not well suited to it. Pretty much anyone who has BF2 and knows what a mod is either knows of or has tried PR already. What we are getting now is people who are not suited to the play style and just came for the new shiny guns now that most other BF2 mods have tanked.

There are still some genuine new players who could make great additions to the community, and they are not being turned away by elitism. It is unsuitable players being turned away because they are ridiculed for their stupid actions.

Goblin wrote:Im going to say this as kindly as i can

The manual is so bloody boring its not posible to describe in words. make some interesting training videos or somthing, the way it is now is just a no go.

I only ever used it myself iff there whas somthing i did not understand specificly.

I newer ever read the hole bloody thing and il bet most off your hardcore veterans did not either you just played from the start or along the road as the patches got updated, etc.

One off the most demoralising things ingame for a neew players is to meet with arogance and be told to read the bloody manual especialy iff its a simple thing like asking howe to place a mine (just an examble) i have even seen peopel get kicked from servers etc for less lol because he whasnet proffesionel according to the server rules or owners.
Im realy tiyred off the PR players and there attitude. i like the mod and play it but i loose interest faster because off players playing the mod then the actual mod itself.

(spelling i know but im in a hurry)

Forgive my rudeness... but your attitude is what is wrong with the world today. Your post displays a clear portrayal of being LAZY. Even to the point of you being too busy to type proper english. We are all in a hurry. It is called life. You aren't given anything. You earn it. Im only 27 but I have seen it time and time again in my college sports days to my current profession. Our rookies thought they were entitled to anything without working for it. My X co-workers thought they deserved more money but their results were too poor.

TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN AND TRAIN BEFORE YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK LIKE AN ***.

In this case.. read the manual for 10 minutes and try at least one training server. It will make a world of difference.

It only takes 10 minutes to read the manual, but if you answered every single "whats the shovel do?" question, then someone spends 15 minutes of their time In-game to answer them.

"whats the shovel do?"
--"it builds things"
"ok, whats it build?"
--"it builds firebases, sandbags, MG nests, you know"
"uh, whats a firebase?"
--"well a fire base is..."

Or, the experienced player could say "Read the manual" and the New player spends only 10 minutes to read it instead of the experienced player spending 10 minutes of his in-game time to explain a portion of it, per every New Person.