Civilian and Armor

[ytman]

Yeah, seriously guys, stop derailing the friggin' thread. And I will agree with the above, there is simply no need to punish civis for jumping in front of tank guns when in all practicality it is much easier to avoid this and in any case tankers should be less trigger happy, as climbing out and arresting the guy instead of being a lazy SOB will get you more points and reward your team more than MG-sniping half a dozen armed insurgents.

I'd argue that a driver getting out of his tank is a stupid SOB instead of a lazy one. Why leave a place of great protection in a dangerous area and risk losing your tank's capabilities?

The thing that solves everything is simply having infantry near by to clear of the tank... though having the WP smoke do damage sounds sexy and fun even outside of Insurgency GM.

[Hresvelgr]

I'd argue that a driver getting out of his tank is a stupid SOB instead of a lazy one. Why leave a place of great protection in a dangerous area and risk losing your tank's capabilities?

The thing that solves everything is simply having infantry near by to clear of the tank... though having the WP smoke do damage sounds sexy and fun even outside of Insurgency GM.

When I say get out of the tank, I am usually referring to the .50 gunner. And let's face it, while not all tanks wait to get one before going out, doing so in INS maps is usually if not always sheer lunacy and a costly mistake. That .50 gunner is vital, whether it be for spotting threats, covering the rear, or clearing the roof of civis.

[USMCMIDN]

When I say get out of the tank, I am usually referring to the .50 gunner. And let's face it, while not all tanks wait to get one before going out, doing so in INS maps is usually if not always sheer lunacy and a costly mistake. That .50 gunner is vital, whether it be for spotting threats, covering the rear, or clearing the roof of civis.

IDK I just do not think this is realistic. I mean realism would have inf do the work but 9/10 times ppl do not act as a team and move in convoys... (Tear)...

[Rudd]

IDK I just do not think this is realistic. I mean realism would have inf do the work but 9/10 times ppl do not act as a team and move in convoys... (Tear)...

then this is good, use teamwork and you suceed, don't use teamwork and you don't suceed.

meanwhile the enemy are distracting you with pacifist peace demonstrations standing in the way of your fire while the enemy manouvre around to destroy you! <- teamwork!

[Hresvelgr]

IDK I just do not think this is realistic. I mean realism would have inf do the work but 9/10 times ppl do not act as a team and move in convoys... (Tear)...

Convoys? I'm just telling you to always have a .50 gunner when manning a tank on INS.

[ytman]

meanwhile the enemy are distracting you with pacifist peace demonstrations standing in the way of your fire while the enemy manouvre around to destroy you! <- teamwork!

But thats team stacking! I lol'd ^_^

[mosinmatt]

then this is good, use teamwork and you suceed, don't use teamwork and you don't suceed.

meanwhile the enemy are distracting you with pacifist peace demonstrations standing in the way of your fire while the enemy manouvre around to destroy you! <- teamwork!

YES! My favorite thing to do.
Early on in .9 I was in front of a tank, and a squad mate had the BIG ied. We nearly had it placed, but it glitched and went to his grenade instead.

Then one time I ran in front of an APC...causing him to turn and go into a mine instead.

I really like the current civi rules. They are very far to the civi player and the blufor.
I mean....that shotgun is POWERFUL. Infact...i think the specialist is overpowered! shotgun...M4...Incendiaries...and grenades. OUCH

I do wish the SL still had incendiaries. I often "lead from the front". I am the first guy to go into a building, and sometimes my squaddies...fall behind. I get on the cache and I cant do anything....

On albasara If a tank is camping to the south. I will often spawn as a civi to lower his score, or provide cover and be able to get closer.

So thank you Revs. You have made the collaborator a truly useful class now. A good way to make the blufor think for a change.

[USMCMIDN]

Convoys? I'm just telling you to always have a .50 gunner when manning a tank on INS.

Yes instead of having guys take hums and APCs and just camp out and get kills. If you move in convoys you are more protected, getting the mission accomplished, getting those kills, and playing as a team which the game was intended. Yes having a .50 gunner on a tank is good for protection but for PR having a tank just sit in the middle of a field and just rack up kills rather then support the team is just an annoyance to the insurgents. I wish ppl would see this and start playing more as a team. One of the many reasons to remove the body count.

[SGT.Ice]

I searched this but if it is a repeat sorry.

Anyway it seems like I am always surrounded by civis in the stryker, APC, tank etc... When I shoot the main weapons on this they jump up and I kill them accidentally and I get the punishment. 3/4 times when the driver gets out he is immediately shot at by a sniper or w.e the civi is working with. Same goes for infantry around the armor trying to arrest they get owned too or just dont feel like doing it. It is highly unrealistic to have civis jumping in front of your gun trying to die for the punishment or hoping all over your armor. All Coalition soldiers would be cleared to engage them. If civis/unarmed people IRL were engaged in Iraq for aiding the Insurgents; this is the same concept.

So I suggest a cap radius nothing major maybe 10 meters and a time limit such as 30 seconds until you can engage civis on all armor and vehicles to combat this unrealism.

I'd disagree. As far as I know your not cleared to engage a civilian at any time. Unless they pose a direct threat or are handling a weapon they are not combatants and are therefore protected by ROE.

[SGT.Ice]

IDK I just do not think this is realistic. I mean realism would have inf do the work but 9/10 times ppl do not act as a team and move in convoys... (Tear)...

Yea convoys would be nice. If people were smarter and we had better ways to communicate. Completely agree on removing the body count. Maybe we'd get some real gameplay with some convoys

[USMCMIDN]

I'd disagree. As far as I know your not cleared to engage a civilian at any time. Unless they pose a direct threat or are handling a weapon they are not combatants and are therefore protected by ROE.

When 1st recon rode into the airfield in Iraq during the initial invasion in 2003 they were cleared to target civilians... Also any "civilians" thought being spotters for mortars were engaged. There are a ton of instances like this IRL.

[ytman]

When 1st recon rode into the airfield in Iraq during the initial invasion in 2003 they were cleared to target civilians... Also any "civilians" thought being spotters for mortars were engaged. There are a ton of instances like this IRL.

No one is stopping you from killing civilians, you will just be punished.

[killonsight95]

Yea convoys would be nice. If people were smarter and we had better ways to communicate. Completely agree on removing the body count. Maybe we'd get some real gameplay with some convoys

ever heard of...MUMBLE!

[Herbiie]

When 1st recon rode into the airfield in Iraq during the initial invasion in 2003 they were cleared to target civilians... Also any "civilians" thought being spotters for mortars were engaged. There are a ton of instances like this IRL.

no Civilians may EVER, EVER be engaged with ball or tracer rounds, it's against several treaties. 1st Recon were not cleared to target civilians, and if they did, well they'd be in deep capoodle.

Civilians thought to be acting as "Spotters" cannot be engaged unless you are 100% positive that they are spotting, in which case they are no longer civilians. However, it's incredibly difficult to see if they are calling in mortar strikes, usually, if possible, they are restrained, or at least chased off with warning shots.

When civilians have been crawling over armoured Vehicles - the armoured vehicles do not fire at the civilians. They simply reverse slowly (so as not to crush any civvis) and vacate the area.

[USMCMIDN]

no Civilians may EVER, EVER be engaged with ball or tracer rounds, it's against several treaties. 1st Recon were not cleared to target civilians, and if they did, well they'd be in deep capoodle.

Civilians thought to be acting as "Spotters" cannot be engaged unless you are 100% positive that they are spotting, in which case they are no longer civilians. However, it's incredibly difficult to see if they are calling in mortar strikes, usually, if possible, they are restrained, or at least chased off with warning shots.

When civilians have been crawling over armoured Vehicles - the armoured vehicles do not fire at the civilians. They simply reverse slowly (so as not to crush any civvis) and vacate the area.

They WERE cleared to engage unarmed spotters outside of Nasiriyah... And at the airfield they were tasked in taking (after taking the British Paratroopers mission from them) they were given the green to engage ALL people in the vicinity. This account is both in Generation Kill the TV series and the book. In the book they go in more detail why the order was given. 1 civilian was targeted and killed, the Marine who shot at the civilian was not punished because he was following orders.

And again no NATO military is going to risk one of theirs to run and restrain a spotter in fear of being shot themselves. Now if they have a means to neutralize him w.o killing him such as a NLWS so be it but if that spotter is far away... If the spotter is a direct threat to a force and they cannot take him out via non lethal weapons systems or physically restraining him we and other Coalition forces would cap him.