[Gameplay] Logistics

[badmojo420]

I always looked at the rallypoints like an 'insertion point' A place where a reinforcements would be dropped off and told to meet up with the squad. I could never imagine that little bag containing an unlimited supply of weapons for those troops when they got there. A crate on the other hand is more believable to contain weapons and equipment. I don't think it will be a problem, as a good logistics squad will be dropping crates off at friendly rally points. It would be happening now, to supply ammo, but the risk of enemies using those crates makes most people think twice about pooping out crates in less then secure areas.

A question, since we can't request kits like HAT and sniper at firebases, will they be requestable from crates now?

[jeeao]

So if wrenches can't repair how are we going to fix tracked tanks? We are going to have to send a truck up there and drop a crate removing the old one?

[FLOZi]

Yep, I agree. Automatic Rifleman and Grenadier are basic weapons that make up the basis of a real fireteam, so why should they have to go find a place to get one when really they would have it from the get go???? If anything, Automatic Rifleman should take the place of the engineer spot and Grenadier could use a spot since they are actually prevalent on the battlefield, but I am fine with keeping it as requestable as long as it can be requested from a rally to prevent spammers.

A big +1 to this, I have read regarding British Army, albeit from a not incredibly reliable source;

Each fire team has two IW, one with an underslung grenade launcher, one LSW and one LMG.

An infantry section now consists of:
Charlie Fireteam:
Corporal (in command of section and Charlie fireteam) equipped with L85A2
Rifleman equipped with L86A2 LSW
Rifleman equipped with L85 with underslung grenade launcher
Rifleman equipped with Minimi LMG
Delta Fireteam:
Lance Corporal (second in command of section and in command of Delta fireteam, responsible for administration of the section, ammunition and its conservation, rotas for sentry duty, etc)
Rifleman equipped with L86A2 LSW
Rifleman equipped with L85 with underslung grenade launcher
Rifleman equipped with Minimi LMG

As well as this, most infantrymen are equipped with a LAW, smoke and HE grenades.

[FLOZi]

Ach, stupid lack of edit. Also Canadians have 2 C9's (Minime) per 8 man section. Of course due to engine limitations we are forced to ahve squads/sections of 6 men in PR, but even so they should surely have at least 1 SAW and 1 GL per squad?

[Sabre-Oz]

I would agree the squad 'basics' should be available from rally points, even if it is just 1x GL, 1x Light AT and 1x LMG, btu then again maybe this will convince people to 'value' there 'virtual lives' abit more which in my eyes would only improve game play.

[Skodz]

I would agree the squad 'basics' should be available from rally points, even if it is just 1x GL, 1x Light AT and 1x LMG, btu then again maybe this will convince people to 'value' there 'virtual lives' abit more which in my eyes would only improve game play.

BUT, I believe, lot of serious players (including QTF) already value their virtual life and try to be careful but its a war sim... Peoples dies... When you cannot request a rifleman at kit anymore because you have been killed, since its the only 1 the team can get, it can be very, very frustrating... Everyone will die no matter how careful you are. And not being allowed to use a kit anymore because you have been shot is not cool.

I understand the need for control to reduce kit wasting but too much is like not enough...

A good example for this is on Muttrah City, have fun when you have a bad BTR-90 crew and no more Rifleman AT kit available.

[Skodz]

Edit: (Can't edit original post...)

I understand and agree with the limitation to enforce care for virtual life and to avoid kit spamming but as mentionned, too much is like not enough.

[Sabre-Oz]

I didn't mean 1 per the whole team, i meant keep the Grenadier, Automatic Rifleman and Rifleman AT kits how they are. As i understand exactly what you are saying and that's why i said i'd agree if they were still available from the rally, maybe i just failed to word it correctly.

For me lately serious games of PR have been few and far between, maybe its just like a silly season before .85 who knows.

[Teek]

So if wrenches can't repair how are we going to fix tracked tanks? We are going to have to send a truck up there and drop a crate removing the old one?

You drive up and drop a repair box. It will replace your previous repair box, but losing the previous box shouldn't matter because the repair boxes have ~5 minute time limit and what ever was repairing at the old one can drive back to base (or you can go back)

[jeeao]

You drive up and drop a repair box. It will replace your previous repair box, but losing the previous box shouldn't matter because the repair boxes have ~5 minute time limit and what ever was repairing at the old one can drive back to base (or you can go back)

There are several problems with this update. What if the tank is out of reach of a command truck? Take for example bumpy hills on Kashan Desert.

[badmojo420]

Anywhere a tank goes you can drive a cmd truck to. It's not like the civie car that blows up after a couple bumps.

[Deer]

I still dont get the APC thingy..

After APC transports 1 load of troops to frontline, it can choose to go pick up 2nd load, or go own enemies who doesnt get AT kits from rallypoints anymore. Realisticly how many ppls would actually turn around and pick up more troops with APC if they dont do it even with a truck which doesnt have turret ? I think just few ppls will do that in public servers.

2nd point is that which one is actually more effective way to use your APC when thinking about team's victory, go pick up more troops, or let them walk slowly while you use APC to stop enemy team's movement towards flag zone completely ?

It is indeed very difficult to make players use vehicles realisticly instead of abandoning them around, APCs are surely vehicles what players are not abandoning but APCs are also vehicles what players use as tanks so they arent really up for being taxi or "buss" while driving APC. I think if APC would NEED infantry around itself, it would try to get infantry around itself, infantry must offer something usefull for APC, something that is worth something in the game and it should be so simple thing that everyone can understand it.

Or casualplayer-friendly solution would be that limited amounts of players could spawn into APC, like 4 per 10minutes, or something. It is so simple solution that it works no matter how silly players are.

[jeeao]

Anywhere a tank goes you can drive a cmd truck to. It's not like the civie car that blows up after a couple bumps.

Have you ever tried driving a stationary cmd truck up a hill without momentum? Tanks have more HP and Torque than a CMD truck. It is not a matter of it blowing up or not. Also even if you manage to get the truck up there, the supply crates dont exactly fix themselves to the ground, they will slide off.

[Drude]

ok, seems like these changes are going to be great... but only if you play in a community server etc. pr is once again drawn away from "casual gaming" and this will drop player rates and make only few playable servers which will be crowded.

i wish bf2 would have queuing option in server browser

[-=TB=-Tobakfromcuba]

no FOB vehicle spawn, 2 seated commandtrucks, apc crews going off alone...mhh, i guess i know the upcomming sommer hit
YouTube - i would walk 500 miles


jking, i like most the stuff changes, its time for new things and tryouts.

[space]

no FOB vehicle spawn, 2 seated commandtrucks, apc crews going off alone...mhh, i guess i know the upcomming sommer hit
YouTube - i would walk 500 miles


jking, i like most the stuff changes, its time for new things and tryouts.

It wont be that bad - think how a humvee is used now - you drive to an area, and then often one or two guys stay in the humvee and give support with the .50 cal.

The transport APC's will only have a 0.50 cal and although they take twice as long to spawn, they are also alot harder to kill. There will be a slight difference in the travelling time though as, they will only spawn at main base, rather than a FOB.

Main problem with the change for me, is that it ties a 1/3 of the squad up in a vehicle with crewman kits - if maybe the gunner or even gunner and driver could use the apc without a crewman kit (just on the transport apc's) I think it would work better.

[RCMoonPie]

I think he ment in the new patch we wont be able to repair a vehicle.

Will he be able to repair bridges?

It doesnt sound like it....by all descriptions made and the lack of response, leads me to believe that PR is digressing back to the Vanilla method....basically crate/box left near the object to be repaired.
Please.....any dev correct me if Im wrong......and I hope I am.

You drive up and drop a repair box. It will replace your previous repair box, but losing the previous box shouldn't matter because the repair boxes have ~5 minute time limit and what ever was repairing at the old one can drive back to base (or you can go back)

So....what if I am on Kashan, US side, in a tank helping helping to take the south bunker....and I need repairs? A supply truck drops off a single crate at my location.(if I am lucky to get this new 2 seater that will most likely be one-manned) I am waiting on repairs to slowly happen....and then my box disappears. By the above post's logic.....I am expected to limp back to base to get full repairs.....removong me and my vehicle from the battle....instead of helping with a potential push forward to other flags?

And now.....with the rally-point reformatting.....If I am attacking that same south bunker as infantry.....and I was carrying a Auto Kit, a grenadier kit, or a LAT kit.....and if I am killed.....my squad will have to do without.....at least for a long time.
I will have to either spawn at the main to get it back......and pray I have a ride from a pubby who is one-manning the new 2 seater truck or some other form of APC that is most likely relocated to a single squad that isnt mine.....or spawn at my rally and beg my pubby SL to request a resupply from the same one-manned truck......or hope that some other pubby had the forethought to place a box or a repair point somewhere close by......and try to get to it before it disappears to magically re-appear somewhere else for the next squad down the line at a new flag.


There is a saying common here in the states...."If it isn't broke...don't fix it."

I am sure someone (or several someones) placed a lot of time and effort into this new logistics system. And I am appreciative of all work done on this mod.

But I truly believe that in many instances....some artists do not know when to put the brush down.

I know we all want a great deal of "realism" in PR....but realism doesnt have to mean over-complicating or the fixing of something that wasn't broke.
It's a game based on reality....it isnt reality.

I hope I am wrong.....but it seems to me that some of these changes could be potential PR breakers.

[Skodz]

I didn't mean 1 per the whole team, i meant keep the Grenadier, Automatic Rifleman and Rifleman AT kits how they are. As i understand exactly what you are saying and that's why i said i'd agree if they were still available from the rally, maybe i just failed to word it correctly.

For me lately serious games of PR have been few and far between, maybe its just like a silly season before .85 who knows.

No, your wording was ok, I was talking about the actual kit limitation system.

[Skodz]

I still dont get the APC thingy..

After APC transports 1 load of troops to frontline, it can choose to go pick up 2nd load, or go own enemies who doesnt get AT kits from rallypoints anymore. Realisticly how many ppls would actually turn around and pick up more troops with APC if they dont do it even with a truck which doesnt have turret ? I think just few ppls will do that in public servers.

2nd point is that which one is actually more effective way to use your APC when thinking about team's victory, go pick up more troops, or let them walk slowly while you use APC to stop enemy team's movement towards flag zone completely ?

It is indeed very difficult to make players use vehicles realisticly instead of abandoning them around, APCs are surely vehicles what players are not abandoning but APCs are also vehicles what players use as tanks so they arent really up for being taxi or "buss" while driving APC. I think if APC would NEED infantry around itself, it would try to get infantry around itself, infantry must offer something usefull for APC, something that is worth something in the game and it should be so simple thing that everyone can understand it.

Or casualplayer-friendly solution would be that limited amounts of players could spawn into APC, like 4 per 10minutes, or something. It is so simple solution that it works no matter how silly players are.

At =QTF=, we enjoy using it as effective fire support for infantry, especially on Insurgency, hopefully there will be atleast 1 APC for each squad when they'll remove light transports... In no way I will let my Fire Support APC to leave us on the field to go taxi an other squad...

[Skodz]

There is a saying common here in the states...."If it isn't broke...don't fix it."

I am sure someone (or several someones) placed a lot of time and effort into this new logistics system. And I am appreciative of all work done on this mod.

But I truly believe that in many instances....some artists do not know when to put the brush down.

I know we all want a great deal of "realism" in PR....but realism doesnt have to mean over-complicating or the fixing of something that wasn't broke.
It's a game based on reality....it isnt reality.

Very true