Project Reality Forums

[R-DEV]AfterDune wrote:THESE CHANGES WILL RUIN THE MOD!! I CAN TELL, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T PLAYED THE NEW VERSION YET!!!

Oh, if we got a nickel for every time someone said that . Don't worry about it, there are still kits that have their binocs. It really is an improvement. Might have to get used to it at first, but I'm sure most of you will appreciate it. And the ones that don't, just grab a kit that has binocs... Or play as Insurgents or something

And the ones that don't, just grab a kit that has binocs... Or play as Insurgents or something

And the ones that don't, just grab a kit that has binocs... Or play as Insurgents or something

Hmmm? Insurgents have binocs maybe?

Good argument I think, 40mm. A substantial difference between PR 1.0 (assuming the binocs removal will go through) and Vietnam/Falklands is the lack of scopes for regular kits in those minimods. So while many kits wouldn't have full on binocs level optics in 1.0, most would still have scopes with a substantial amount of magnification.

will medics, specialists, etc have scopes? I think that would be appropriate.

Medic shouldn't get a scope though, it would make the class a bit too powerfull since he can heal himself a lot with 11/12 patches. He got to rely on his squad because he's meant to stay with it.

the scope isnt that useful. Maybe on the G3, but even then it's still rather difficult, to fire past 200-300m.

I'll eat my HAT if people start using an M4 with a 4x as a solo sniper kit because it can have lots of patches in 1.0

risegold8929 wrote:Hmmm? Insurgents have binocs maybe?

Right now, yes. One of the reasons is that they get a lot of intel from locals irl. Having binocs in game simulates that, sort of.

My guess is you're going to see a lot of optic use in v1.0 because of this change and the new BUIS system. Currently, I never use optics unless they're attached to a MG or marksman rifle (a habit shared by, I believe, most experience players).

These changes will probably force me to take another look at that habit, which is great.

[R-DEV]AfterDune wrote:Right now, yes. One of the reasons is that they get a lot of intel from locals irl. Having binocs in game simulates that, sort of.

Any more secret messages you want to throw our way?

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[R-DEV]AfterDune wrote:Having binocs in game simulates that, sort of.

IMO it simulates that almost everyone can go into a store and buy one binoc, even me...

meh.... this reminds me of the qq surrounding the changes to spawning off sql and apc. Like then we will adapt our gameplay.

Indeed. I've found that one of the common problems in PR gameplay is that a lot of equipment available to infantry promotes tunnel-vision situations that are often unrealistic (and, when realistic, are the subject of much training to mitigate anyway). The proliferation of binoculars is one of the big culprits.

Let's examine a hypothetical scenario of a squad that has set up a position and is watching their surroundings, currently not in contact. One member of the squad, assigned to his watch area, thinks he sees something off in the distance.

Currently, he undoubtedly will put down his rifle (if it isn't already down), pull out his binoculars, and focus on figuring out exactly what it is. If it turns out to be, say, an automatic rifleman or machine gunner setting up to mow down our hapless rifleman's squad, there might be no warning and no chance to suppress (as his rifle is sitting uselessly in his kit.

In a future world with limited binoculars, he will use the optics on his rifle if he has them, and/or (this is the money part) calls over a buddy with binoculars or optics to help him identify the target. All this time, his rifle is still out, perhaps even sighted in on the anomaly, and can engage or return fire much more easily. This whole time, since our rifleman is not himself focusing on identifying the contact, he can stay alert for other anomalies in his watch area, whether he's trained himself as a player to avoid tunnel vision or is doing so by accident.

Finding the common ground within both realism (binoculars are not commonly issued among soldiers in most conventional forces) and gameplay (the lack of an in-game soldier's ability to focus on a faraway object naturally with their eyes) is at the crux of Project Reality's development method, and requires a great deal of experimentation. I think you won't be disappointed with the outcome we reach in this matter, but I'm fairly certain you will adapt, and as long as we believe it can be a good adaptation, we won't hesitate to try it out.

why not just assign a zoom button for like 1 or 2 x zoom basically a Squint button

xambone wrote:why not just assign a zoom button for like 1 or 2 x zoom basically a Squint button

Better yet, just bring back 2x zoom when sighted-in on all weapons without scope.
As far as I played PR:F; the new deviation makes blindfiring in CQB a little better as well.

Simulates paying attention to one point AND makes looking at faraway things easier.

'[R-DEV wrote: In a future world with limited binoculars, he will use the optics on his rifle if he has them, and/or (this is the money part) calls over a buddy with binoculars or optics to help him identify the target. All this time, his rifle is still out, perhaps even sighted in on the anomaly, and can engage or return fire much more easily. This whole time, since our rifleman is not himself focusing on identifying the contact, he can stay alert for other anomalies in his watch area, whether he's trained himself as a player to avoid tunnel vision or is doing so by accident.

If he only has ironsight/red dot, and he calls over a teammate with binos/scope to look... AR guy just kill both of them in one go; or by the time his teammate ran over with precious binoculars, he already died and teammate now cannot return fire because his weapon is in his kit.

ComradeHX wrote: If he only has ironsight/red dot, and he calls over a teammate with binos/scope to look... AR guy just kill both of them in one go; or by the time his teammate ran over with precious binoculars, he already died and teammate now cannot return fire because his weapon is in his kit.

how the hell does an AR kill two guys at a range so far that you require binoculars to even see the guy?

I mean these are guys, not silhouetting, camouflaged into the ground and barely moving, at 300+ meters vs the AR with no binoculars, and maybe no scope.

ComradeHX wrote:Better yet, just bring back 2x zoom when sighted-in on all weapons without scope.
As far as I played PR:F; the new deviation makes blindfiring in CQB a little better as well.

Simulates paying attention to one point AND makes looking at faraway things easier.

decent idea, but this makes close combat unbearably bad. If you could have a pseudo "back up iron sight" where you can switch between 1 and 2 times with irons, that would be good.

40mmrain wrote:how the hell does an AR kill two guys at a range so far that you require binoculars to even see the guy?

Well to be fair, some of our AR's have 4x optics on them too.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... s-fun.html

Above is Thread titled PR:V No scopes = Fun? and talking about zoom ability in this mod.

Below is Reply I posted on that Thread and I still think like so.

"Now reagarding discussion about removing Binoculars. As I stated above, I feel that the ability to magnify vision gives kind of result that is not quite related to real life due to the fact simulation is done over screen.

I remember (or at least I thought) posting comment about giving Insurgents Binocular back when there wasn't one. Because even though Non Conventional force not having optic on rifle and related disadvantages compared to rifle with optic can be real, straining your eyes trying to figure out pixels on screen by not giving users an ability to magnify screen is not worth it. So I am for giving Binocular to each and every kit.

And I think magnification should be limited on kits that are not issued a high quality Binocular in real life for purpose specific use. Because I think, that ability to produce and equip an optics that is capable of clearly identifying objects at great range is part of real life tactic.

I see posts about how it can force players to stick togather more. But I don't think that's the reason why Military only issue Binoculars to Officers because they think that is good way to make Grunts stay with Officer.

Maybe Soldiers are not issued a Binocular because they don't feel the need to use them, or maybe in real life Binoculars are plenty to go around even if not everyone carries one."

To put it simple, I think that

-You can not see far away like in real life if its done on screen. Straining your eyes close to monitor is (at least I think) hazardous to your eyes. So give ability for users to zoom the screen to a reasonable degree.

-High zoom should only be available to kits that is same as those who are carrying high zoom optic because they have need to and have ability to obtain or produce such technology. Because an ability to produce and equip optics that is capable of clearly identifying objects at great range is part of real life tactical advantage.

-I'm no expert on this, but, I doubt reason military only issue binocular to certain people is Not because so a person without binocular have to stay with a person with binocular.

40mmrain wrote:how the hell does an AR kill two guys at a range so far that you require binoculars to even see the guy?

I mean these are guys, not silhouetting, camouflaged into the ground and barely moving, at 300+ meters vs the AR with no binoculars, and maybe no scope.

If Ar really was that ineffective then it would not matter much whether there is binocular.

Fortunately AR in PR is mostly effective. Most(blufor) have scope when appropriate; and ones without scope will be close enough to shoot all that squad without needing binos to be spotted anyway(and probably much more dangerous), in that case it does not matter whether someone has binos or not.

At lower resolutions; more than 200m is already difficult, especially if target is stationary.
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In close combat; people with scopes already do not have BUIS available(unless 1.0v is going to be super awesome and make that happen; which makes ironsight version of any BluFor spawn kit next to worthless).
x2 zoom is not that bad at all. Not to mention un-aimed accuracy is acceptable for areas close enough to make even x2 zoom feel awkward.



Anyway, some sort of magnification is definitely needed because effectiveness of ironsight weapon in PR right now is heavily related to monitor resolution... There are people who play at low-ish resolutions(for whatever reason) who are at disadvantage against those playing at higher resolutions. If not binos; then some sort of 2x zoom when sighted in would be fine. Not having it just makes it almost necessary to have high resolution(even then, spotting from 300m+ is a chore) when playing with ironsighted weapons.

Unless Blufor Ironsight kits actually have binos and scoped kits do not...

If he only has ironsight/red dot, and he calls over a teammate with binos/scope to look... AR guy just kill both of them in one go; or by the time his teammate ran over with precious binoculars, he already died and teammate now cannot return fire because his weapon is in his kit.

if you want a game that has no scenarios where you will possible lose/die...then good luck in your search

Rudd wrote:if you want a game that has no scenarios where you will possible lose/die...then good luck in your search

What made you say that? Because having binoculars mean everyone is rambo never die?