Project Reality Forums

Ninja2dan wrote: Yet almost none of the insurgents we fight right now know how to even properly disassemble their AK, let alone maintain or repair it. I have seen weapons brought back from Iraq and Afghanistan that were so nasty that I'd be scared to fire it myself. Because of their lack of discipline in maintaining their weapons or their desire to keep the weapon safe, I'd say that alone will cause many AK's to jam frequently.

I think it would be rather disingenuous to believe that the insurgency does not have the ingenuity to field-strip, maintain and repair their weapons. If you can safely and competently master a spoon, you can figure out a Kalashnikov.
It comes down to their operations. Does the insurgency REGULARLY engage in stand-up battles with coalition forces -- or is their primary mode of operation driven by remotely operated explosive devices? Are they able to keep immediate access to their weapons, or are they forced to keep them concealed in less than ideal places, to avoid arrest by authorities?
The insurgency, is not run by some outer-rim moisture farmers in their T-16s -- Iraq was once a relatively prosperous country that afforded its citizens a considerable amount of education. Maintaining their firearms is not a high priority.

Ninja2dan wrote: One factor to think about as well is the clearing time for jams. Most people using an AK, even some government military units, don't train enough on clearing failures in combat. The M-16 for example is one of the few weapons in the world designed specifically with a feature to help ensure the round is properly seated. And most soldiers are trained from the day they touch a rifle on how to clear jams quickly and effectively in combat, to the point that it becomes natural reaction. Anyone who has fired an AK and had a stoppage knows just how annoying those damn things are to clear.

The charging handle on Kalashnikovs allows the user to directly manipulate the positioning of the bolt and carrier using their palm, fist or boot. Moreover, one can visually identify that the bolt in battery by the positioning of the charging handle.

Again, I know how hard it is to clear an AK.. You pull the handle back.. If you can't do it with your hand, you can hit it with something heavier. I dare you to do it with the charging handle on an M16.

Ninja2dan wrote: The older stamped models of either weapon tend to fail more often than the milled versions. I have been seeing less and less stamped 74's in issue, but I still see a lot of stamped 47's around. The AK-74 does tend to jam more often though due to a higher ROF and smaller components, I also think the smaller round contributes to the problem. I would have to say that insurgents are probably going to have more 47's than 74's due to availability, but in the hands of an insurgent or poorly-trained military soldier, the 74 will have more failures.

Stamped v. Milled has no overall bearing on the reliability of the weapon. Durability, yes. Accuracy, yes. Aesthetics, yes. Reliability, no. The rigidity of the milled receiver affords a slight increase in accuracy, but a significant increase in unit production costs -- hence the movement to stamped variants.
As for the internals, the internals are virtually identical, with the bolt carrier and bolt being sized differently to accommodate the different cartridge.. Further more, the AK74's muzzle brake increases the back pressure in the system. Differences in rates of fire are negligable. Additionally the only milled AK74s I'm aware of are Bulgarian export models -- intended for civilian markets.

Anyways --
Without a way to truly randomize jamming -- or to hold players accountable for their treatment of their firearm (Submersion in water, exposure to elements.), this seems purely like a reason to further penalize OpFor players. Without trigger-able animations, the player's immersion will be broken when his weapon inexplicably ceases firing.
While Hangman should be acknowledged for his initiative and ingenuity -- I'm not sure that jamming can be implemented in a satisfactory manner.

-REad

Wait for PR2 is all I can say..

[R-DEV]Chuc wrote:Wait for PR2 is all I can say..

Yay, a comment full of WIN

XxX_HangMan_XxX wrote: Proof?? I'm sorry but its staying as it is. I think it is highly unlikely that the chechens can keep their weapons as clean as the russians potentially can. Reason is that the Russians are an actual army and they have armories etc to check their weapons into. To date i am not aware that chechens regularly have access to similar facilities.. If u have actual proof showing otherwise then please show me

Wasn't one of the big points with the Kalashnikov design that you wouldn't have to be a "actual army" or have a nice armory to attend to your rifle? That it would be reliable enough to be used effectively by any ragtag-guerilla in any enviorment anywhere on the planet? That the few things they have at their disposal should be enough to clean the weapon so that it can fire as effectively as the rifle of any soldier in a conventional army?

I'm quite sure that a Chechen militiaman, taliban fighter or even 18-year old Hakmed from central Baghdad knows how to handle his AK. Judging from stories I've heard (both TV-documentaries and from relatives and friends who have fought in places like Bosnia and Kurdistan) it's really not that much of a problem to tend to take care of a Kalashnikov. Seems like it pretty much handles itself, most of the time.

Also. Havn't the unconventional armies got enough disadvantages on the PR-battlefield already?

So after reading the whole thread I just had to get involved.

First off, using random numbers to cause jams is a GREAT idea. But honestly if it isn't done right it is just going to piss ALOT of people off.

I do competition shooting and in my years this is what I have seen firsthand.


I have owned 3 AK clones (Sar1,Wasr-10,SAR3) and have personally done over 4,000 rounds with them. Do you know how many jams I had? 0. Do you know how many times I cleaned them? 0.

I leant my SAR1 to a friend of mine to go shooting with. Well he ended up dropping it in the mud on their way out and in his hurry didn't clean it. 4 Months later when I went to go back out to a shoot I couldn't cycle the weapon. It was mud locked. Placing the butt of the rifle on the ground I stomped on the charging handle. Chi-Klank did another 800 rounds that day with no issues. And some one commented on "high quality ammo" If you are feeding these things ANYTHING but the cheapest steel cased surplus bulgarian then you are wasting your money. These weapons are whores and will work with whatever you stick in them. Just google the AK47 fire, some one does full auto ~600 rounds or so and catches the gun on fire...and it still works.

I have owned 2 AR-15s, have done long range rifle shooting as well as 3 gun comp. GREAT weapons, but I counted 3 jams in my ~1600 rounds and I cleaned them very often. Don't get me wrong, it is an amazing weapon platform (just a stock/barrel/optic change and you go from 400 yards to 50) but don't ever think I am grabbing my AR over my AK if all hell breaks out.

Now if you don't mind I am going to use the search function to find out why we still cycle weapons after a loaded mag drop. +1 for life.

NoLimitSoldier wrote:If you are feeding these things ANYTHING but the cheapest steel cased surplus bulgarian then you are wasting your money. These weapons are whores and will work with whatever you stick in them.

That is so full of win. I seriously think this is bordering on uselessness, because many people will complain if the values seem wrong/unfair, and there are different arguments going across about the AK's never jamming or them jamming semi-frequently. I mean this could be a huge improvement to PR, but I fear to think it might be a waste of time and it will do more harm then good.

Sgt.Smeg wrote:

If it can't be random, this is a bad idea to have in game.

Fair enough, jamming is realistic but if it has to be done in this unrealistic fashion, it'll be ****. no offense.

Agree with this. If its not random is basically just a way of changing the mag size and thats it...

Its cool if its random, but to a point, and not so often

But.. computers cannot prefore a totaly random nummer. it has to be in a series hasnt it? even tho that series can be Humongus, it cant be random

Yeah, it's always a certain pattern. Those patterns are so big though that it takes a long loong time before it repeats . Or that's what i thought it was anyways ...

Update: Weapon system has been applied to all primary weapon systems. Now needs to be tested and evaluated.

Also updated main thread.

Would love to see a single video of you managing to jam a weapon in game.

Should update the first post with the outline of the method you actually achieved, too.

Celestial1 wrote:Would love to see a single video of you managing to jam a weapon in game.

Should update the first post with the outline of the method you actually achieved, too.

Added how the system works.. If someone would be so kind as to tell me how to take a video then i will put one up asap

HangMan

im really interested in this. cant wait to see it

I dont know about weapon jamming but yesterday i was on the us team on kashan and my grenade just wouldnt go off, all 4 of them

I restarted the game and it seemed to be normal again.

this looks great, cant wait for some noob to unload half his magazine at me from the hip only to have his gun jam

XxX_HangMan_XxX wrote:Added how the system works.. If someone would be so kind as to tell me how to take a video then i will put one up asap

HangMan

You can use Xfire like rhino said, but you can also download Wegame video recorder, its free.

Video Games, Xbox Games, PC Games, Computer Games, PS2 Games, and PS3 Games at WeGame.com

Is there an overheat animation for guns or are they just smoking?