[Weapon/Gameplay] Weapon Jamming

[HangMan_]

This has been bounced around the suggestion forums for quite some time so i thought i'd give it a go...

Recently i brought out the post from 2005 about Weapon jamming and was encouraged, through much ridicule to post the work i have been doing.

I wanted to bring weapon jamming to PR for a long time and its taken me a while to figure this out... Even though its incredibly simple. If it has been done or is being done then please let me knw.




By using the overheat system that is already used by BF2 i am reworking it to be a jam system. Due to engine limitations there will be no way to clear a jam (except reloading), u will just be set back a certain amount of time.

This won't be an overly large addition to PR seeing as people rarely fire enough rounds in a short period of time for a jam to occur if it was RL. So the only people who may suffer from this are the noobs who love to fire Full Auto.

Currently i need a new sound for the jam, at the moment it is the overheat noise This would make it far better. I am still figuring out how to get the sound to trigger but thats not important yet..

You may be wondering the point of all this seeing as it doesnt add much to the game...

By adding this there will be a bigger difference between the Russian faction and the Chechens (One factions guns will jam quicker because of poor care etc)

Insurgents guns will jam more frequently than USMC/USA/GB guns.

I think this will add a more realistic feature to PR.

Some may think its unfair for me to make the OPFOR guns jam and claim that they keep them as well cleaned as the BLUFOR would. I am suggesting that the OPFOR would have a much harder time keeping their weapons clean (ins and taliban especially) seeing as they don't have the trainning or an armoury to check the gun into for a service.


I will post a video of my progress one i figure out how too

HangMan

Ok so i've been working on this for a few weeks but only put around 3 hours into it. I have figured out that my system works but i need some input from the community...

Gun related questions:
- Which jams more; Ak74 or AK47?
- Should BLUFOR guns jam more regularly than OPFOR guns? vice versa?
- Should the jamming penalties differ for BLUFOR and OPFOR?

Please only answer the first query of mine if u actually have R/L experience.. It doesn't help if u just guess

Cheers,
HangMan

Update as of 16/09/09...

Weapon jamming has been applied to all primary weapon systems. All weapons use the same system. As of now the system needs to be tested in game to see if it works, or is bias in any way. Then it can be further tweaked.

Edited on request: Jam system uses the overheat system.. it works with weapons adding a heat value of 0.041 per shot with a cooldown of 0.9 per second. Penalty at the moment is 3.5 seconds. This leads to weapons jamming after u shoot off a large percentage of a 30 shot mag at full auto. It does appear to be random if u don't fire in a regular pattern.

HangMan

29/09/09 Update:

Still working on a video for this. I've been pretty tied down with prior commitments (Getting the NZDF faction up and going). I pretty much finished the first stage of the system now, it still works off the overheat system. Because i'm hopeless and haven't posted a video yet i'm posting the heat values, cooldown, and penalty times so that people with the editor can check it out.

Weapons have been grouped together. Each group has its own set of values. The reason there is not just one universal set of values is due to things like fire rate and magazine size.

The 3 values below each title represent these things:
- Heat Add Per Shot
- Cooldown Per Second
- Overheat Penalty

DMR: Less than 30 shots
0.315
0.8
3.5

Sniper: Less than 15 shots
0.8
0.35
3.5

Rifles/SMG's: +20 Shots
0.041
0.9
3.5

Pistols: Less than 15 shots
0.2
0.8
2

Enfield Iron:
0.67
0.32
3.5

HangMan

[Celestial1]

By adding this there will be a bigger difference between the Russian faction and the Chechens (One factions guns will jam quicker because of poor care etc)

Insurgents guns will jam more frequently than USMC/USA/GB guns.

AK's can jam? (Sarcasm; they do, they're just less likely to do so even if you consider cleaning...)



To make it based on the overheat system means that it will only occur after long periods of consecutive fire instead of a random system.

If you could make it the overheat system, but then somehow make each bullet have a different 'amount' added to the 'overheat' bar, it would randomize the jam system greatly. This way, it still is only likely to happen if you have fired quite a bit, but it's not that you would have to be firing on full auto for it to happen... (If possible, make the overheat bar stay constant instead of eventually 'cooling down'. That way, even if you fired of 3 magazines earlier, you still have a chance of your weapon jamming after all that time; but, when the overheat is full, make it cool within a short amount of time)


If the only way to 'remove' a jam would be to reload, then a lot of bullets can go to waste if you jam on a full magazine (since IRL you would clear the jam, no need to discard bullets). If you mean that you would 'remove' the jam by using the reload key, and not actually reloading your magazine, then by all means.

My thoughts on it; good luck.

[azreal64]

wow, that is actually quite a clever approach. Never would have thought of something like this myself. Good job.

[SkaterCrush]

If the only way to 'remove' a jam would be to reload, then a lot of bullets can go to waste if you jam on a full magazine (since IRL you would clear the jam, no need to discard bullets). If you mean that you would 'remove' the jam by using the reload key, and not actually reloading your magazine, then by all means.

I don't think anyone can honestly say they use all 8 mags they get before they die or rearm.

I was thinking about what it was in that thread. Great idea and I can't wait to see it ingame (it better be!)

[Rhino]

Interesting concept, I'm not convinced it will work that well but willing to see how it turns out

I don't think anyone can honestly say they use all 8 mags they get before they die or rearm.

I do quite a bit when I've managed to stay alive for quite some time (mainly when I'm playing officer and I'm more careful with my life ) thou I do do a lot of tactical reloading (ie, reload after pretty much every fire fight even when I have only fired off a few bullets so when I go into the next fire fight I have a full mag at the ready).

[fuzzhead]

When working in fireteams/as part of a platoon with fire support elements, your entire squad will quickly go through all available ammunition.

I've played several rounds with 1 or 0 deaths and have had my entire squad reload approximately 100 mags between all of us. It all depends on your mindset, tard rush and die, carelessly throwing away your life for a kill, or approaching things more realistically... usually more realistic = more ammo consumption.


WRT weapon jamming... well lets wait for the video...

[HangMan_]

Interesting concept, I'm not convinced it will work that well but willing to see how it turns out



I do quite a bit when I've managed to stay alive for quite some time (mainly when I'm playing officer and I'm more careful with my life ) thou I do do a lot of tactical reloading (ie, reload after pretty much every fire fight even when I have only fired off a few bullets so when I go into the next fire fight I have a full mag at the ready).

haha yay this has got to be the first time i've drawn a slightly positive response from you Rhino

It is going alright so far. Except that my editor crashes wen i try and fire the guns for too long in the object editor

HangMan

[Rudd]

I don't think anyone can honestly say they use all 8 mags they get before they die or rearm.

if you aren't asking for ammo every 20mins, you aint shooting enough.

Interesting idea hangman...but doesn't that mean this won't be used for mounted weapons? since they use the overheat method to overheat (too much :wink

though sounds interesting, though I doubt that the chech and tali teams should be penalised much if at all in this jamming system more than blufor since the team that will be full of inexperienced fighters is going to be the Urban Insurgency right?

[HangMan_]

if you aren't asking for ammo every 20mins, you aint shooting enough.

Interesting idea hangman...but doesn't that mean this won't be used for mounted weapons? since they use the overheat method to overheat (too much :wink

though sounds interesting, though I doubt that the chech and tali teams should be penalised much if at all in this jamming system more than blufor since the team that will be full of inexperienced fighters is going to be the Urban Insurgency right?

Those are both good points. One i had already thought about is the stationary weapons. They will remain with the overheat as that serves as a punishment for firing too much. I don't believe that the BF2 engine will support both systems unless a lot of serious coding is done. Even then it may still be impossible..

I will need to research which guns are most likely to jam so i can get it right. I do believe that the AR-15 series jam more than the Kalashnikovs but we'll see how it turns out...

Cheers fr the input

HangMan

[SkaterCrush]

Its probably because I mostly play insurgency bluFOR and I usually have a "knack" for not being seen. I almost always do a recon squad or a stealth infantry, the former being what it says, observing enemy movements for cache locations, usually in 2 positions manned by 3 men and reporting it to the commander. The latter we track down caches and take them out ourselves. Both of these we only fire when fired upon ourselves, or when we need to stop a technical or take out an RPG that will take out quite a few tickets at once

Seriously I almost never play AAS, only when the servers are empty and only an AAS server is populated.

Another question I had.

So technically if your using the overheat method, its just when you fire too long? I mean I think its better than nothing but its not totally accurate...

[master of the templars]

Can you trigger animations when the over heating occurs?

For example when over heated the character tilts the gun and looks into the side as if its jammed (or what ever soldiers are drilled to do IRL).

[azreal64]

I wonder if you would be able to make a reload animation setup similar to a shotgun with reload_1, reload_2, and reload_3, but make reload_3 an unjamming animation. Not sure how you could trigger this though.

[arjan]

i want to see the movie

[Tomato-Rifle]

Hopefully it wont be like when you pick up an AK47 from a dead enemy in Farcry 2, they jam like every mag. Then blow up

[HangMan_]

Can you trigger animations when the over heating occurs?

For example when over heated the character tilts the gun and looks into the side as if its jammed (or what ever soldiers are drilled to do IRL).

I'm looking into it but i don't think this is possible at the moment...

HangMan

[Arnoldio]

I dont think its necesarry, but nice touch

[HangMan_]

Updated front page... Please read the un quoted bit and help me out guys

HangMan

[Wilkinson]

If we saw some kind of example, it'd help to give input

[HangMan_]

If we saw some kind of example, it'd help to give input

By this u mean???

I am working on a small video which i shud hopefully have up by the end of today. Tbh its not that interesting too look at yet. Basically just an AK overheating lol..

HangMan

[ReadMenace]

So your idea is based on the overheating function.

Does each shot contribute a small random amount to the 'jam' meter?
- or is it a linear pattern?
Is the jam meter reset every time you reload?


-REad