Project Reality Forums

Oh FFS...

Drop the guy into game, just tell him to listen closely... No manual can be better than baptism in fire. I never read that "booklet", only maybe year and half mainly to see what so spectacular about it. Nothing TBH.

I've had few lads in my squad, fresh from vanilla. I just promptly warned them that they will fly out of the squad if the don't listen. You shoud've seen them being nice and quiet like dead hamsters.

Teek wrote:It only takes 10 minutes to read the manual, but if you answered every single "whats the shovel do?" question, then someone spends 15 minutes of their time In-game to answer them.

"whats the shovel do?"
--"it builds things"
"ok, whats it build?"
--"it builds firebases, sandbags, MG nests, you know"
"uh, whats a firebase?"
--"well a fire base is..."

Or, the experienced player could say "Read the manual" and the New player spends only 10 minutes to read it instead of the experienced player spending 10 minutes of his in-game time to explain a portion of it, per every New Person.

Or you could ... do both ?

- What does a shovel do ?
- Its used to build team bases but you're better off reading the manual to understand it all.

See, rather then just dismiss his question and thus frustrating him (and having him spam the hell out ) you are answering it while giving an incentive to go discover the manual.

'= wrote:H[=ElvishKnight;1124875']While it may seem somewhat rude to new players, if they actually did read the manual there would be ALOT of questions asked right there withought having to distract others, yes it is good to teach our future 'veterans' at the same time some things are easier if one just reads it, only takes ten minutes, if that.

To be honest, i never really read the manual.
I still don't know where it is and never needed it, why? because its a freaking game!
you get in the server, be a noob for 1-2 days and you start to realize how things work.
so, if a noob asks a question answer it not by saying "go read the manual noob" but explain to him how the things work in Pr. It doesn't take much.
no need to be act like a *********.

Teek wrote:
Or, the experienced player could say "Read the manual" and the New player

thinks, Urgh this mod isn't worth it, I've already downloaded the game which took FOREVER and now these people can't even be bothered to help me and are telling me to read the most boring thing in the world?

Valuable player or not, he isn't coming back. PR has alot of "Elitism" already. It takes very good computers to be able to run the game unpixilated, also, when I had problems controlling the tank turret due to a small mouse area, I was told to use a joy stick. Well, surprisingly, I don't have a joy stick!

I know that's petty but I'm trying to prove a point - if you don't spend the time to help out new players, then why should they keep to the strict rules of team work and team play, for the benefit of everyone, when no one acts for the benefit of them?

I think, that the BEST way forward is to add the little help things they had in vBF2.

You know the grey things that pop up, and the annoying voice that tells you how everything works?

Add a new one of them for PR for the first time they play - that way they will understand more of the game. E.G. when they load in something like,
"Joining a squad is a vital part of Project Reality, press Caps Lock to access the squad screen, then click Join Squad a squad that is not locked or full."

Then when they Join a squad,
"Remember to listen to your squad leader at all times, as a squad working together is stronger than a squad fighting on it's own."

and more for the spawn screen etc.

So the first time they play there will be a slight delay but they will understand the game more.

The normal noob is a myth. Most server admins slap people who respond with "RTFM" , PR does have a steep learning curve for a day or two thats it.

BTW!
I read the manual, and it was alot easier to get in the game.

Its only game/mod i have ever played where i would say you have to read the manual first. It makes the transition much more easier. And if you know alittle about the game because of reading the manual then people in game will be more patient with you if u ask a question because you have taken the time to read the manual.

Teek wrote:It only takes 10 minutes to read the manual, but if you answered every single "whats the shovel do?" question, then someone spends 15 minutes of their time In-game to answer them.

"whats the shovel do?"
--"it builds things"
"ok, whats it build?"
--"it builds firebases, sandbags, MG nests, you know"
"uh, whats a firebase?"
--"well a fire base is..."

Or, the experienced player could say "Read the manual" and the New player spends only 10 minutes to read it instead of the experienced player spending 10 minutes of his in-game time to explain a portion of it, per every New Person.

So the new player needs to Tab+Alt everytime he has a simple question? That would take longer then just answering him ingame, especially if he is in your squad. You can read the manual all you want, but chances are, the new guys will forget it or have so little ingame time, they won't realize what it does until they do it themselves.

Like the other poster said, drop them into the game and they will adapt and figure it out fast (baptism by fire).

[R-MOD]Saobh wrote:Or you could ... do both ?

- What does a shovel do ?
- Its used to build team bases but you're better off reading the manual to understand it all.

See, rather then just dismiss his question and thus frustrating him (and having him spam the hell out ) you are answering it while giving an incentive to go discover the manual.

^^^This.


And to the poster said being "lazy" is what is wrong with the world, come on LOL. This is a freakin game, not everyone wants to devote time into it to simply become decent and survive. My problems with PR are that it takes too long to find a good server and team most of the time that are full and are on good maps. When I do find all of those though, this becomes the best game ever created. But when new guys can't find those things, how can you blame them for being "lazy"? They are being frustrated.

Go back and read my post again. The poster I quoted was being LAZY. He was even too lazy to care about his spelling. How can you argue that laziness isn't an problem in our society?
Even though this is a game... it still equates to a player being LAZY.

It takes time away from VETS enjoying the game to have to teach people over and over.
However, I have found people are very willing to help and offer advice in the TRAINING servers.
When I visited them, the other players helped me tremendously.

I didn't read the manual until .85. There were a few changes I needed to catch up on (I am a 3 year vet). On the whole I am really nice to new guys and try and help them along. I do get annoyed with noobs...but mainly only noobs that try and SL or command right off the bat. That is effing retarded. And if you have a huge problem with people constantly asking questions get an x-fire account with only friends that are experienced and make locked squads that consist only of them. A lot of the reason you see locked squads is because SLs want to be effective and I am sorry to say that it is very rare a group of random pubbies and/or noobs will be effective against other experienced players. A lot of vets aren't arrogant they just want to be effective. Having a consistent group that you don't have to second guess or train on the job will make you ub3r 733+!!!

Though I think the manual is quite good, I will say that a comprehensive training video would be great. It should NOT be made by the Devs for the simple fact that they should be focusing all their efforts on the eventual 1.0 release. Seriously, the players can and should come up with a solid training website with an overall intro to the game mod and philosophy that drives it as well as individual movies for the different realms of the game. Have an intro, a tactics section for piloting, medics, squad leading, commanding, defense, offense, etc... A real homage to all the hard work by the Devs that will make the transition from Vanilla to the wonderful world of PR as painless as possible.

Read the manual (has important info like crawling above nade traps so they wont trigger), dont give up after the first few games, and most important, join a squad and use voip, teh newbies have to understand they cant do anything alone. (i started playing 2 weeks ago and i luuuuv it, vanilla BF2 looks so gross/cheap after PR )

I myself began PR whitout ever reading the manual in 0.75 when there weren't any training servers. I did have some awesome help from a number of vets that made my learining curve very quick and easy

AcEy wrote:Go back and read my post again. The poster I quoted was being LAZY. He was even too lazy to care about his spelling. How can you argue that laziness isn't an problem in our society?
Even though this is a game... it still equates to a player being LAZY.

It takes time away from VETS enjoying the game to have to teach people over and over.
However, I have found people are very willing to help and offer advice in the TRAINING servers.
When I visited them, the other players helped me tremendously.

I never said that laziness wasn't a problem in today's society. I actually agree with you there, but this is a GAME, and a game is supposed to be fun. And wouldn't you think it would be far lazier to sit back and not answer the newbie's simply question? If you want to talk about laziness, then answer that. I am not talking about breaking the game down bit by bit for him, but answer simply questions is much faster and more efficient than the manual and they also don't have to Alt-Tab to figure it out.

Answering questions sure as hell doesn't take my time away from enjoying the game. As long as they are not smacktards, ask blantantly obvious questions, and have an open mind and willing to listen and follow, I am fine with them either being in my squad or answering their questions.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:I never said that laziness wasn't a problem in today's society. I actually agree with you there, but this is a GAME, and a game is supposed to be fun. And wouldn't you think it would be far lazier to sit back and not answer the newbie's simply question? If you want to talk about laziness, then answer that. I am not talking about breaking the game down bit by bit for him, but answer simply questions is much faster and more efficient than the manual and they also don't have to Alt-Tab to figure it out.

Answering questions sure as hell doesn't take my time away from enjoying the game. As long as they are not smacktards, ask blantantly obvious questions, and have an open mind and willing to listen and follow, I am fine with them either being in my squad or answering their questions.

You don't have to alt-tab out of the game if u read the manual first. Plain and simple. All ppl ask for is that u have somewhat of an idea what a FB is and what a Shovel does and what an epipen is used for. If you know the basics, it's a lot easier for a vet to give u more VALUABLE information on where to place a firebase, how to use the shovel and when to use an epipen. I try and help out all the noobs whenever I can, but it's frustrating when ppl do not want to spend the time reading a 10 min manual (as boring and tedious as it is...I did it) to get the basics. I quickly read it while taking a ****, sorry for the visual. I put down the Sport Illustrated mag and opened up the manual. Fell in love with the medics role and haven't looked back since. Like I said, I gladly explain in depth all the tricks of the trade to noobs or vets alike. I usually do take the time to explain to sqmbrs what an epi is, when to resuscitate...but when it becomes a common everyday question...u can understand how someone can get frustrated. Let me stress that i do not agree with ppl responding rudely RTFM NOOB! That is wrong!!!

Kasp

I suggest to any noob to check out some of these guide vids in addition to the manual, they are very throughout and 123wellayeson should get a medal for making them.

YouTube - 123wellayeson's Channel

If something Isn't covered, ask your squad mates, chances are they will happily answer your questions.

i remember the first words spoken to me on PR "read the amnuel f***ing noob"
i just skimmed the manuel when i was first playing, found controlls to be the same looked over the HP system and suppresion and thought "this sounds like fun" and went to the training server where i was told to read the manuel.

and i have read the whole thing and i still use it as a referance sheet, i have no prob asking for help or giving help to "not in the manuel" stuff.

IF it IS in the manuel then this is all you will get from me "read the manuel".

why? because i have explained how to take off in a chopper 3000 times and i am SICK TO DEATH of it, i know the guys asking have only asked 1-3 times but other players have answerd so many times that they just want to play and not be the portable player who knows all things cause HE spent the time to read the manuel .

"Read the manual" is sort of Project Reality's own "Catch 22"

Google is you friend.

I didn't get any help when I started playing PR. I read the manual, like I do with basically every game, checked options, and found a training server.
Then when I had asked all the questions I had, and had a good grip of what I was supposed to do, (shut up and follow orders) I went to a real server.

The small intricacies take time to learn, things like not requesting weapons without asking the SL first etc.
All the jargon involved in streamlining communications, and I didn't know how to put markers until like a month into the game. (I didn't play BF2 a lot and theres nothing about it in the manual)

But this shit isn't difficult, just don't go around being a ******, don't solo vehicles, don't teamkill, don't scream into the microphone, and don't use equipment you're not familiar with.