Project Reality Forums

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OT:I agree with Ratha. A settlement bar or maybe a audio breathing sound to help some people to know when the deviation is at a low point. I personally don't need it but some of my friends (or the bots) sure do.

Its amazing how after every release and all kind of changes to the deviation, there are still guys who complain about it. I mean guys, wtf, I think the DEVs have tried to integrate almost everything possible by now, and its not constructive criticism either, just "deviation sucks should be easier to hit". PRACTICE!. Thats it, I and lot of guys I know have no problem at all hitting a moving target at abut 300m, and taking them down with a few shots.
You have to get used to all kind of weapons, just don't tell me "you always wait for the aim to settle", you don't. I bet you wait like half a second, thinking you were sitting there for ages and just start spraying. The best trick for targets till roughly 200m, is to wait till the echo after every shot stops. Thats the easiest way to keep deviation low, with maximum bullet expenditure.
Think a moment about it, why you sometimes miss like everything. The deviation is here to simulate weapon sway and scope alignment. Your weapon and scope ARE ALWAYS in the center of the screen (which wouldn't be the case IRL), thus not representing the scope alignment. Then you can just spin around without loosing deviation, thus not representing weapons sway either. The DEVs had to compensate all the key-factors in the deviation, because of the engine. Not to talk about injuries, exhaustiveness, and and and.... It is sometimes frustrating, but not even half as bad as some of you are whining here.

Looking back I do sound a bit bitchy and rant too much. Sorry I didn't want to offend anyone, but there is really no need for this thread anymore, unless you really bring up A NEW AND HELPFUL IDEA! for proper deviation.

I really hope johnny hasn't stopped working on that mod

Out of interest (I just thought.. .. the 3D sights all have movement in the scopes (you can see them 'settle' for a bit, can't you).

Seems an obvious question, but is it not possible to greatly exaggerate (make worse) this 'settling', not to recreate scope-wobble, but to give a visual clue as to how settled the deviation is?

i think they tried it and it didn't work. maybe in the future they will find something useful.

BenHamish wrote:Out of interest (I just thought.. .. the 3D sights all have movement in the scopes (you can see them 'settle' for a bit, can't you).

Seems an obvious question, but is it not possible to greatly exaggerate (make worse) this 'settling', not to recreate scope-wobble, but to give a visual clue as to how settled the deviation is?

That's hardcoded, you can make the scope move but it's not linked to how much deviation you have so it would end up being very mis-leading.

Ah right, knew there'd be a simple reason. Cheers.

Umm, I don't know if new players have ever encountered this but...
Whenever a player is far enough for "deviation" to come into effect, I report to my squad where he is so "they" in a realistic game, can help me take him out. Which in result takes enough time for my deviation to settle while I "communicate" with my squad.

Whenever a player is close enough for deviation to matter little, I just roflololol and spray like a madman, and it usually works. (suppression....) Seriously though, use auto fire in close range, suppression> deviation in CQB.

I had 5 scoped guys and an AR lined up [prone], and shooting at two running guys from 200m away (exposed for 4 secs each time - they ran individually).

The first guy made it, the second guy died. I died a little inside, lol. That was a lot of fire.

Jman234 wrote:When I use the MG3 Deployed and in prone for a good 8 seconds and shoot in bursts of 3, I'm better off using a pistol. I find the deviation in this game ridiculous sometimes.

Take your left hand COMPLETELY away from the WSAD keys and the keyboard. Trust me - it works. I find that since I did that I had no more "deviation rage".

Never had any trouble with Deviation, anyone who can't hit anything can't hit stuff because they're a bad shot, not because of deviation. get used to it & it's fine just like with anything, practise makes perfect.

Would be nice to have a firing range with destructible targets (it is possible I saw one used for FH2).

people who complain about deviation aren't necessarily bad shots in the game

My gripe is that deviation is being too heavily used to compensate for 'realistic' factors that are actually already in the game.

Tell you one thing, sounds pathetic but.. I actually have heart-in-mouth moments due to the deviation .. perhaps that is a good thing.

Peeked into a room with an AK the other day, and there were 3 US soldiers all grouped in the far corner, none checking my way. I waited until the last possible moment and then got them all with a full mag in under a couple of secs.

That said though, it is fecking frustrating when you find a sniper, move to a good position to shoot, and then fire the first shot and he gets up and runs off.

BenHamish wrote:That said though, it is fecking frustrating when you find a sniper, move to a good position to shoot, and then fire the first shot and he gets up and runs off.

You should never attempt to engage a sniper with regular small-arms fire in a 1-on-1 shootout, unless you somehow manage to get so close that you simply can't miss. Otherwise you are just begging him to put a round in your eyeball.

And in situations like you mentioned, where you missed and the sniper got up and fled, if the sniper had been smart you would have been dead 5 seconds later. All he had to do was fall back a short distance to another hide and use his range to his advantage.


When you encounter a sniper, your first priority should be placing 40mm HE or other heavy ordnance on his head. If you have a SAW, suppress him while the rest of your squad (or another squad) flanks him. But if that's not an option, use the blooper. This is one reason why I recommend squads try to run with a grenadier when ever possible. You can also try calling in support, anything from a simple mortar fire mission all the way up to a Mk 82 or two (or three).

To clarify, I really meant playing on Insurgency when you see the most bone sniper ever sitting in the most obvious spot, and then get nice and close and shoot him.

a0jer wrote:people who complain about deviation aren't necessarily bad shots in the game

My gripe is that deviation is being too heavily used to compensate for 'realistic' factors that are actually already in the game.

Deviation is meant to represent Weapon sway - something not in game, and something that can't be portrayed realistically in game.

In Bf2 our players are jogging all of the time, this will increase your breath rate (Even walking increases your breathing in real life, by a noticeable amount) will be high. When you're puffing that much your weapon sways like crazy, believe me, even when you've been stationary for a while you can still make a 10mm grouping into a 60mm grouping through not controlling your breathing through every shot - it's happened to me.

It is unrealistic to be able to start firing perfectly straight away, and it will take a small rest for you to be able to shoot perfectly. That said you can start firing not perfectly pretty quickly, which is what it's like in PR.... Many a time have I opened up on someone without waiting for deviation to settle and I've suppressed them or taken them out.

Like I said - most people who are moaning about deviation just haven't played enough to get their shooting skills up.

@Ben - if you & your entire squad can't hit a sniper then you seriously need to start wearing a rabits foot or something cause that's just unlucky

Yeah I did expose myself to some serious ribbing there lol!

Deviation is something that exists in real life AT ALL TIMES. You can place a weapon in a vice clamp that is bolted to the ground and wouldn't move if a damn nuke was dropped on it, fired perfectly-made match-grade ammunition from the same lot and box, under perfect temperature/weather/meteo/etc conditions and you will always have some deviation from the weapon.

But during normal shooting conditions you're going to have all sorts of factors that increase deviation even more. Unless you're a robot, you'll never be able to hold a rifle perfectly still. Add to that your breath, and even your heartbeat, and you get more movement. Then consider factors like barrel harmonics, wind, variances in ammunition production/lot/batch/etc, and that your weapon builds up minute amounts of carbon/dirt/dust/residue after every single round, and you start adding even more factors that affect ballistics.

All of those different aspects increase deviation. While it's impossible to remove deviation completely, you can reduce it by stabilizing the weapon better, controlling your breathing (which in turn eases heartbeat and "pulse force"), and learn to control the adrenaline that can often lead to muscle spasm/twitching/shakes. It is those specific actions that PR is simulating by reducing deviation spread via limiting movement and delaying your shots.


The only problem is that while some other games have the capability of providing visual/audio feedback of deviation factors (swaying weapon, hard breathing, pulse, etc) a lot of those features are impossible in PR/BF2. We have what we have because it's the best available at this time. It's not perfect, but with practice you can learn to minimize deviation.

Yeah, I never really got what all the deviation whining was about - no weapon is perfectly accurate.

Thanks for the post ninja2dan it's good to read a dev's opinion on something.

HMARS wrote:Yeah, I never really got what all the deviation whining was about - no weapon is perfectly accurate.

Without waiting for deviation to settle it is possible to shoot the ceiling several feet in front of you whilst aiming across a small room in PR. Think of the position the soldier's hands would be in to make that shot.