Project Reality Forums

You're not looking in the right direction then. Try to take a different approach, think team wise. Fun in PR is indeed a tricky thing to find, but once you do you will enjoy it a lot, believe me.

There's a lot to go through so I'll try and keep my responses short.

Jagobah wrote:everyone seems to think I'm way too stupid to not understand or acknowledge

I don't think you're stupid, just stubborn and quick to jump to conclusions. That may offend you but it's the attitude you're showing.

Jagobah wrote:there's aggravating gameplay flaws that severely hamper the enjoyment of the game, I simply point it out, and everyone gets all defensive and such.

They're gameplay flaws in your opinion. Naturally we're defensive when someone is bashing the mod we enjoy.

Jagobah wrote:If my squad isn't wiped out, they've run for cover somewhere and leave me to die.

That is an individual squad problem, not a flaw in the mod.

Jagobah wrote:You cannot communicate outside your squad, all you can do is hope someone else flanks him or takes him out.

You can communicate with people outside your squad using chat, radio placed map markers, a commander, or an external VOIP tool like Mumble/TS/Vent.

Jagobah wrote:Something blew you up, but you never know what.

That's a blatant generalization, sometimes you know sometimes you don't. The more you are aware of the situation the easier it is to estimate the threat.

Jagobah wrote:It doesn't take long but you eventually get flanked and killed, never realizing until it's too late.

Again you're generalizing, sh*t happens but not every time.

Jagobah wrote:I don't mind if I lose firefights because the enemy was better than me, but when you don't understand WHY you lose or what you could've done differently, that's a huge gameplay design flaw.

The enemy are players too, everyone was a newbie once. If you're unable to understand why you're losing and what you can do to improve it is not the mods fault. Otherwise everyone would be at the same level.

Jagobah wrote:It's happened to me on a co-op game, so it follows that it can happen in deployment games as well.

Co-op is very different to deployment, and there are different types of co-op servers. In co-op the maps are smaller and you can spawn closer to the action. My favourite co-op server has bots on one side and players on the other. So the only way you could get spawn raped on that server is if you joined the bot team.

Jagobah wrote:No messages that describe who killed you, or with what, or where they were.

That's right, but that doesn't mean you can't use situational awareness and observe sound and visual effects to figure it out.

Jagobah wrote:If you can explain to me how to take out an apache as an infantrymen, then I'll concede the argument that Project Reality educates you on how you can get revenge on someone that's killed you.

Infantrymen can carry machine guns, anti-tank and anti-air missiles to engage helicopters. To improve your chance of survival you can utilize available cover and stick with teammates who have AA capability. Plus there's the option of building stationary AA emplacements.

Jagobah wrote:It's good to know that a military background is required to enjoy a game like Project Reality.

Absolutely not. Whilst there are a significant amount of players and developers who do have military backgrounds, the majority do not.

Jagobah wrote:It's also too bad the community of such a game is very unwelcoming and unforgiving of newbies.

Some people are like that in every game, others are very welcoming.

The reason you're being responded to this way is because you're prematurely judging the mod and generalizing about your unfortunate experiences. Everyone has bad matches and good matches, but you're essentially telling us that every match is bad and there is no appeal to the mod.

I'm quite keen on introducing new players to the mod, as are many others who have posted in this thread. I just don't like it when a new player comes and says that the mod is flawed because they don't understand it's appeal or recognize that they can improve.

Jagobah wrote:It really bothers me when you expect every single person to play the game to have such training, because it makes the game that much less fun when you're "required" to be in a squad and you get kicked because you're new, or you lead a squad and fail because you have no clue what you're doing.

Again some people do, but the rest of us just want newbies to have an open minded attitude/understanding approach to the mod. Or if they don't like it, at least not come here and tell us it sucks just because they had a bad time.

Jagobah wrote:It also bothers me how the players of this community don't even recognize such things as potential gameplay flaws, and think that because it's under the guise of "realism" that any flaw the game has isn't a flaw, but a "realistic portrayal" of the game and that it's 100% perfect the way it is, zero flaws whatsoever.

The mod is not just about realism, which is a common misconception. Again the 'potential gameplay flaws' you've mentioned are opinionated and based on limited experience. If you take a look around the forums you will often see heavy discussion about gameplay issues that people bring up.

Jagobah wrote:You super experienced never-died-in-PR-ever people can continue to tell me I'm stupid because I've gotten myself killed or to stop sucking or GTFO, but it'll never change the fact that my first experiences in PR are terrible

Don't say 'you people' like we're all the same. Experience doesn't mean you never die, it means you have a better idea why you die and how to avoid it.

Jagobah wrote:it follows that my next experiences in PR will not be any better. If you think you can improve my experience, explain to me in detail what I must do, how I must think, what I must say. I will go and do it, and prove to you that it won't do shit.

That seems incredibly stubborn to me. You're assuming that because you had some bad experiences you will never have good experiences. Then essentially saying it's pointless to discuss this with you because you've already made your mind up.

Jagobah wrote:This just confirms my original statement that PR leaves you helpless and ineffective against the enemy.

No, it just confirms you still don't get it. The 'enemy' are other players who have had their share of defeats and learnt from them.

Jagobah wrote:What's the point of even being a rifleman (which BTW is the kit everyone recommends the "newbie" take) when assets and aircraft dominate the map?

Infantry dominate the game not assets, infantry complete objectives everything else is just their to support them. Assets are vulnerable to many threats and are barely effective without teamwork.

Jagobah wrote:Following everyone's "new player" advice, I shouldn't touch non-transport vehicles or grab limited kits, and to stick with an infantry squad leader. Is this correct or not?

Correct.

Jagobah wrote:When everyone described how great PR was, they did so by also looking down at other games, and those that play them, as if playing Project Reality makes you a more "superior" gamer.

Yeah some of us think exactly like that, but again not everyone does. A lot of us also play games like BC2, CS and MW2.

It also works both ways, PR is criticized by players from other games with their own stereotypes.

Jagobah wrote:Not a single person in this thread has experienced what I've gone through.

Everyone has at some point, they just haven't described them here.

Jagobah wrote:Everyone just plays on the uber-l33t squad that kills everyone and never dies. Everyone contributes to the team in good fashion. I am the only person in the history of picking up Project Reality that has not been able to get a kill against someone else and avoid death multiple times in a row. The ONLY one.

Do you seriously think that?

Jagobah wrote:I guess that makes me a "noob" unworthy of playing with the "big dogs" of Project Reality, whom I wager can't hold a candle to even the mediocre of other FPS games.

No, it makes you narrow minded, stubborn, presumptuous and offensive.

Jagobah wrote:Maybe I should've enlisted in the Army and go on several tours of duty before I even have a chance at Project Reality.

It might have improved your attitude.

Jagobah wrote:So yes, my mind's made up. According to this community I lack the intelligence and skill to play this game

No one said anything about your intelligence, certainly not the community as a whole which you're shamelessly generalizing about.

Jagobah wrote:despite the fact it takes no individual skill compared to other FPS.

That's wrong and you know it.

Jagobah wrote:I don't feel like the players have been helpful, but more outcast than belonging.

I don't feel the way you've approached us so far deserves a kind and helpful response. You may believe that you're just an innocent newbie seeking help but you're bringing this on yourself.

The fact you continue to respond and show some interest in the mod should not be overlooked, but since you're adamantly stubborn and rude it's not helping you.

Jagobah wrote:I have asked for help, and no one CAN provide it!

If that is the case you have a very strange way of seeking help. Usually people just explain what the problem is and ask for advice to solve it. Not bash the mod and it's players with gross generalizations.

Jagobah wrote:The only things people have responded to me are "stop being bad just get better" or "it was atypical just ignore it." No one's given me a probable solution to my scenarios besides "it was a losing situation."

Actually a few people have been trying to help, but that said there aren't really any magic solutions to dynamic gameplay situations. A lot is learnt simply through experience, which is the case with most games with balance and depth.

Jagobah wrote:I refuse to accept that losing situations and encounters repeatedly, without understanding how to do it better, is fun.

Who said losing and getting frustrated was fun? The fun is in the teamwork and the matches you do win.

Jagobah wrote:If I can't understand it, no new player will.

That would mean that PR never had new players, which is just ridiculous.

I enjoy helping new players, provided they are respectful and understanding. So far you've been the complete opposite.

Wow snazz, great post. I went to bigD and found one of your three posts and repped you for it over there, because there isn't a way on realitymod .

I suppose the last piece of advice I can offer before moving on with my life is: Don't think of PR as a first person shooter with realism mixed in, rather approach it as a tactical sim-game (distinct from a pure simulation) based on teamwork and combined arms warfare. In a first person shooter, your goal is to reach the top of the scoreboard by eliminating as many enemy combatants as possible. While this can be a personal goal in PR, it is of minor importance in the grand scheme of things. The single most important factor in your enjoyment of the mod will be teamwork collaboration, because that's where PR really shines.

Yeah some of us think exactly like that, but again not everyone does. A lot of us also play games like BC2, CS and MW2.

Those games are also much more fun and enjoyable than Project Reality, and don't take nearly as long to get into.

Who said losing and getting frustrated was fun? The fun is in the teamwork and the matches you do win.

I've played a little over twenty matches and lost them all.

That seems incredibly stubborn to me. You're assuming that because you had some bad experiences you will never have good experiences.

That assumption was correct. After those posts I went and played some more, just to see if I can have a better game. I joined a squad as a medic on Muttrah City and tagged along with them. I healed some, we got wiped by a LAV a couple times, took a capture point, lost a capture point, got pinned down by a LAV on fortress for what felt like 10 minutes, and ran out of tickets. When a new game started on American side, everyone argued and cursed over too many trans squads and my first pilot crashed his helo trying to land.

I can force myself to enjoy this type of gameplay up to a point. After that, I just get incredibly angry and exit the game so I can calm down.

Jagobah wrote:Those games are also much more fun and enjoyable than Project Reality, and don't take nearly as long to get into.

PR is more than a game

Jagobah wrote: That assumption was correct. After those posts I went and played some more, just to see if I can have a better game. ...AND OUR TEAM EPIC FAILED AND I DIED ALLOT...

I can force myself to enjoy this type of gameplay up to a point. After that, I just get incredibly angry and exit the game so I can calm down.

Srsly dude, where are u playing? Tank-wannabe LAVs dont survive long on normal servers.

Jagobah wrote:Those games are also much more fun and enjoyable than Project Reality, and don't take nearly as long to get into.

I get bored with them quickly, partly because of the lack of depth. But everyone's got different ideas of what is 'fun' as people in this thread have mentioned.

Jagobah wrote:I've played a little over twenty matches and lost them all... That assumption was correct.

If you just give up now, otherwise you can't predict whether you'll have a good or bad match the next time or the time afterwards. That's what I'm getting at, you say 'never' and 'always' like every match is the same.

When you lose someone else wins and vice versa, the dynamics of a match have far too many variables to determine that you'll never succeed.

You've certainly had an unfortunate streak, which leaves an impression no matter what anyone here says. However you should concede that your experience is not all there is to PR, contrary to your initial criticism. If it was no one would play it.

Jagobah wrote:I can force myself to enjoy this type of gameplay up to a point. After that, I just get incredibly angry and exit the game so I can calm down.

Those that enjoy PR even if their team loses appreciate the teamwork and highlights of the match. If you can't get any pleasure out of it at all then it's probably just not the kind of game for you.

Now to be nice and fair, It's good that you have at least played several rounds instead of immediately ragequiting and uninstalling the mod. It also seems your attitude has improved, which I guess is because you're less frustrated.

Maybe someday you'll feel like giving it another crack and have an enjoyable experience. It's not unusual for people who get frustrated with their initial encounter to come back and find personal appeal in the mod.

Peace.

it seemed in all the examples you provided, you where punching WELL above your weight class and fighting targets or multipul targets you will lose against.

You cant, and shouldn't be able to win every fight you get into. So simply run away or "retreat".

You know what, you do have some valid points. This community can be very arrogant and elitist. But since your post about those few peeps talking shit about MW2 and CS:S or whatever, you've been given a lot of advice; You still need to ease up on the attitude a bit though.

If you came here, made a new thread, with a complete different approach; i.e. 'I'm new to PR and I need help'. We wouldn't respond the same way. We're not here to bash on you, we're here to try and help you and there are a few just posting nonsense. Just ignore them.

What servers do you play on? I think that this is one of the very important factors; as many servers in PR do not provide the gameplay PR can provide. Depending on the server, do you use mumble?

Brummy wrote:What servers do you play on? I think that this is one of the very important factors; as many servers in PR do not provide the gameplay PR can provide. Depending on the server, do you use mumble?

I don't actively remember all of the servers I've been on, but looking at my Xfire history, I've played at ]TAR[ Texas, TacticalGamer.com, New Era Warfare, Peliktutka.fi PR, *NwA* UK Reality. =HOG= Virginia 24/7 Muttrah City had that game I was describing in my last post.

=49th= ! NEW YORK ! server was one I joined when only 6 people were in it, but the gameplay got a little stale because there weren't enough people to get limited kits.

I think I played on VETERANS-GAMING COOP for 10 minutes messing around with squad leader stuff, that's about it. My friend made me play coop for hours when we first began playing.

I have Mumble installed but Punkbuster would kick me if I had it running. Not sure why, it just does. Everyone I know uses Ventrilo, do PR players use that?

Jagobah wrote:Those games are also much more fun and enjoyable than Project Reality, and don't take nearly as long to get into.

I can force myself to enjoy this type of gameplay up to a point. After that, I just get incredibly angry and exit the game so I can calm down.

From what you've stated here, it just seems to me like PR isn't the game for you. PR is no walk in the park, it will take time to 'get into' as you learn the ropes. If you don't have patience and if your number of kills really bothers you, you're always going to be disappointed at first.

For every player that's getting owned and killed left, right and centre, there's a player on the opposing team doing something right. In some of your earlier posts, you gave the impression that this game must suck for everyone but in reality, it's just you mate.

If you have the determination to carry on and learn from your experiences, I wish you luck.

Jagobah wrote:I don't actively remember all of the servers I've been on, but looking at my Xfire history, I've played at ]TAR[ Texas, TacticalGamer.com, New Era Warfare, Peliktutka.fi PR, *NwA* UK Reality. =HOG= Virginia 24/7 Muttrah City had that game I was describing in my last post.

=49th= ! NEW YORK ! server was one I joined when only 6 people were in it, but the gameplay got a little stale because there weren't enough people to get limited kits.

I think I played on VETERANS-GAMING COOP for 10 minutes messing around with squad leader stuff, that's about it. My friend made me play coop for hours when we first began playing.

I have Mumble installed but Punkbuster would kick me if I had it running. Not sure why, it just does. Everyone I know uses Ventrilo, do PR players use that?

Mumble is a very important form of communication on TacticalGamer (TG). It's 3D positional audio so you can speak to your teammates in your proximity that are not in your squad.

I personally only play on TacticalGamer but I'm probably a bit biased. I've found 24/7 servers to be a bit dodgy when it comes to gameplay sometimes. Peliktutka is a great server but unfortunately most of the people speak Finnish in their own squads, but teamwork's great if you're Finnish.

The others I do not really know that well.

Anyway, furthermore I advise you to look through this. It may be helpful for a new player. (It's pretty outdated but the basics still apply.)

Smeggles wrote:PR is no walk in the park, it will take time to 'get into' as you learn the ropes. If you don't have patience and if your number of kills really bothers you, you're always going to be disappointed at first.

My Xfire has me logging 16 hours of Project Reality over the past couple of weeks, as I don't play vanilla, and I guess I'm still not "into" it since there's so much I don't know. Is this not patient enough? It also doesn't count the time I've spent reading the manual and guides on the forums and youtube videos. I've done all I can to try and enjoy the game, but I suppose it's not enough.

Mumble is a very important form of communication on TacticalGamer (TG). It's 3D positional audio so you can speak to your teammates in your proximity that are not in your squad.

Maybe if I could get it to run in BF2 I could try it. What's wrong with Ventrilo?

There's nothing wrong with Ventrilo; there's just not many PR players using it. Mumble enables communication between teammates using 3D positional audio. So that you can only speak and hear those who are in your proximity.

If you'd put a full server on Ventrilo or TS the communication would just turn into a huge clusterfuck.

Which OS are you running? Make sure you run mumble as Administrator or turn UAC off if you have Vista or Windows 7.

Do join us on TG for a password night (mostly on Thursday and Sunday). These are often very fun rounds of PR with lots of teamwork.

I think when you are first getting into PR, whether it grabs you can hinge on where you play and who you play with. One of my first ever rounds was in a squad SLed by a guy called Joe Pineapples, he was a great SL and it was an epic round Basically you want to be on a good server (Like Brummy, I'd suggest TG) and you want to try and squad up with a really good SL. Easier said than done, I know, but try looking over this

I convinced some of my friends to play PR, by saying what military stuff you can do there, for example, one of my friends like sniping games, where you can act like a real sniper, I said him that you can be realistic sniper in PR and he tried out and now he plays PR with me, another friend likes flying simulators, he asked me that if there is airplanes in PR, I showed him, and now he also plays, btw, he is very good pilot now, better than me.

Jagobah wrote:My Xfire has me logging 16 hours of Project Reality over the past couple of weeks, as I don't play vanilla, and I guess I'm still not "into" it since there's so much I don't know. Is this not patient enough? It also doesn't count the time I've spent reading the manual and guides on the forums and youtube videos. I've done all I can to try and enjoy the game, but I suppose it's not enough.

Try not playing for a period of time. Maybe a week. Try and forgot the bad rounds you had. Enter like it's your first round again. When you join a game, you wanna look for squads with names like "Voip" "Inf Voip" "Teamwork" Etc. Say your new, if they kick you. Have a laugh, There a asshat. Once you get into the squad, play teachers pet. Stay close to your SL. Try and do what he says. Ask if you don't know what hes talking about. Try and get on Tactical gamer (Sorry about the bias guys Xd) as its full of guys who want to work with you. Alot of PR players love to teach people who are new to the game. Don't get upset if you spend 20 minutes walking. If your SL knows what hes doing, he can lead a very effective attack. If your squad is getting killed, retreat. Cowardess is non-existant is PR. A retreat keeps your squad alive instead of wasting tickets.

Maybe this will help. I was new once, about 2 years ago, and I still remember the difficulties I had when I first started.

So I remember I was playing on this old map that has since been taken out, it was actually pretty cool, a big cliff with bunkers and dugouts on the top and the sides of the mountain you could climb up. The Chinese started on the top, the Americans on the bottom. I distinctly remember TK'ing a bunch of friendlies because I couldn't properly identify them at a glance. I eventually decided that I might as well stop trying to shoot people and went medic instead, ran around healing my squad the best I could and figured I would just follow them, look at what they looked at, move like they moved, etc. I really did learn a lot taking that approach, and I stopped pissing off teammates since I was using my medic bag instead of tking people with my rifle

After a week I stopped somewhat out of frustration from getting killed and not knowing what was going on and somewhat out of burnout from the learning curve.

I came back a couple months later because I did experience some of those cool moments that you just don't get in simpler games where less is on the line. The time where most of my squad was wiped out and I managed to get a few of them back up and healed, subsequently holding our position. Looking back down over the mountain side from a bunker the first time I made it up with my squad alive.

Those kinds of moments don't happen unless they mean something in the first place, and even after the frustration of learning it I came back for more experiences like that. Once I was back I stayed for good, today I am one of the better players, I very seldom die more than a few times in a map, I got to know other regulars the server I played on and eventually joined the Hardcore =]H[= clan.

The game may not be action packed 100% of the time, but you do regularly get those memorable moments. The other day I was playing with some PRWARS guys I know on karbala, we were assaulting a cache location in the oil refinery and it was an absolute shit storm, tons of insurgents everywhere, rpg's, technicals, everything. Most of the rest of our team was there as well, and it was really not something I expected to live through. After bailing out of our humvee that was on fire exploding behind me, crawling under 3 grenade traps, killing 7 insurgents, and surviving two technicals, the shooting started quieting down, the cache was destroyed by some other squad, and standing there as one of the few left alive felt like (a lot of luck) but also a real accomplishment and it was a great example of teamwork under pressure. That was my "moment of the week", and is an example of why I play this game. Through the boring FOB building, eventless defending, or the 800m marches, you never know when those routine boring moments will turn into something you'll remember in the future.

It could be that PR isn't for you, however you clearly have enough interest in it to post here, and enough tenacity to get revenge on your rough learning experiences. The only real advice I can give you that hasn't already been mentioned is this:

1. As in real life position is FAR more important than your twitch skill. Learn when the enemy has the advantage, in those cases develop the discipline not to engage, withdraw, hide, get a different angle. When you do open fire strongly consider immediately relocating, don't push your luck by staying in the same spot for long. When fighting multiple enemies, kill the first one, let the rest chase you, kill the next, run again, etc. Do not let them know where you are going to pop up next. Change your direction after withdrawing so that when the enemy crests the hill or other obstacle they will be looking in a different direction from where you are. When choosing a firing position prefer locations that have cover right in front of you, so that if you start taking fire you can instantly go prone. etc.

2. Regularly look at the map and identify areas, angles, and distances where no friendlies are, that way when you see movement you will instantly know its enemy so that you can react accordingly quickly.

3. Pay close attention to the sounds around you, learn what the different weapons sound like, you can tell where groups of enemy's are and what kinds of weapons they have. You can hear people coming up ladders, you can hear footfalls, different vehicles have different sounds, learn to recognize what threats are near you before seeing them.

4. Try to get into squads that are doing well as opposed to squads that are failing. Volunteer for medic if you can, try to follow and watch, let them initiate combat, firing on the enemy is not always the best thing to do.

5. Use an easily recognizable name (so people will remember you) and try to play with regulars, and people you recognize as often as you can. Remember, in the end theres only so much you can do alone, when I die its usually because I've become isolated. Theres a BIG difference between playing with unorganized people you don't know, and those that you do.

Try FH2 and work yourself up from there

Great post entelin, and great advice

GP entelin. *thumbs up*