Project Reality Forums

cyberzomby wrote:But like I said earlier, because they are automatic snipers (the AR's where called this when they got announced in there current form) people fear them and act accordingly.

Side note: the AR is no longer an auto-sniper since they added the zoom recoil.

The .50cal in techies IS a recoiless rifle, though...

Yes, thanks for adding that. Was not sure about the current situation so I added the on anouncement to it.

But still, my point remains the same. Now people will think twice of standing in front of a .50. When you add in deviation they will take a chance to snipe you off. Something you wouldnt do in a real situation.

Like most unrealistic things in PR, it is done for more realistic player behaviour.

splatters wrote:no bullet drop for the .50 (or APC cannons and tank guns for that matter

I 'think' there is some drop on tank rounds but its very low. Anyway, at the engagement distances you see in PR any APFSDS round will have so little drop, that even with implementation you would hardly notice it. In example for 125mm BM-12 round trajectory height for 1km shot is below 0.5m and about 10cm at 500m and ~0.5m@500; ~2m@1000m for HEAT/HE(OF19).

Increasing deviation will make it easier to kill infantry at range, especially if they are running or exposing quite a large part of their body. It will also make it easier to shoot and kill people while driving if you are close to them.

So the suggestion is kinda counterproductive.

Pirate wrote:Increasing deviation will make it easier to kill infantry at range, especially if they are running or exposing quite a large part of their body. It will also make it easier to shoot and kill people while driving if you are close to them.

So the suggestion is kinda counterproductive.

Well, if you were firing full auto with per-shot deviation, I think it'd be kinda hard to hit them.

General Dragosh wrote: HUMVE(or similar vehicles with a circular moving mount, i hope i described this good) = You yourself move around your own axis and you use your own strength to move the gun arround you, which is really much harder, ive sat in a vehicle that has that type of mount and it requires some effort to spin it too

Not always, been in some that are like that but there other varients. We drove Lenco BearCats (http://www.swattrucks.com/bcat-mil.aspx) in Subase Kings Bay, GA in the Limited Area for security and the Marines had them for react forces. The turrets on those were fully sheilded around the operator and set on bearings where we had a small *blanking on the name but one of those handles you rotate in circles* to turn the turret. Using those it was extremely easy to turn the entire turret, used it when we were playing 'tag' *throwing water bottles at the Bearcats* and even with all the weaving turns we made I could keep the turret facing the other Bearcat with minimal effort.

honestly gameplay wise this all depends heavily on the situation. but here are some stats.

techy faster than hmv.
hmv can drive over more objects.
techy's crew is exposed to outside small arms fire.

solo techy > solo hmv - can ram to kill hmv.
pro fully manned hmv > pro fully manned techy (both good shots but because hmv has more to aim at rather than a headshot which means an easier win + can kill all crew inside techy within a second from front.)

'= wrote:H[=Rissien;1576806']Not always, been in some that are like that but there other varients. We drove Lenco BearCats (Lenco Armored Vehicles - Protecting Our Nation's Defenders™) in Subase Kings Bay, GA in the Limited Area for security and the Marines had them for react forces. The turrets on those were fully sheilded around the operator and set on bearings where we had a small *blanking on the name but one of those handles you rotate in circles* to turn the turret. Using those it was extremely easy to turn the entire turret, used it when we were playing 'tag' *throwing water bottles at the Bearcats* and even with all the weaving turns we made I could keep the turret facing the other Bearcat with minimal effort.

That vehicular box looks preety new to me, and it would make sense that it has a newer model of the curret mount which is easyer to turn, thing iz those humvees are old and have old equippment with upgraded stuff to it to survive in the todays battlefield, i doubt it would have a never model of the turret mount in my oppinion because it has no big sagnifficance to the vehicle efficiencly, that would be logic

Anyway, if anyone with a 100% IRL proof that those HUMVEE turrets are much easyer to turn than i say they are, then please tell us =)

Pirate wrote:Increasing deviation will make it easier to kill infantry at range, especially if they are running or exposing quite a large part of their body. It will also make it easier to shoot and kill people while driving if you are close to them.

So the suggestion is kinda counterproductive.

So, a larger cone of fire makes it easier to kill people at range? I don't see how you managed to draw that from this suggestion. The intent is to stop its use as a sniper and more of a fire support weapon that is both effective in hit and run tactics and to enforce its use as a suppressive weapon.

Prolonged fire decreases the quality of the mount and the integrity of the barrel. To assume that an Insurgent DSHk is as effective as a conventional militaries is just not prudent at all.

Yes dtacs. Depends on how large the cone is though and how fast the weapon fires. Think about it, if you're firing at a fairly large (or even moving) target at a distance, do you want to be firing a pinpoint accurate bulletstream, or do you prefer to be blanketing a larger area with an amount of lead? You only need 1 or 2 shots in PR, so it can be easier to kill someone if you have a bit of deviation than without any at all.

[R-DEV]DankE_SPB wrote:I 'think' there is some drop on tank rounds but its very low. Anyway, at the engagement distances you see in PR any APFSDS round will have so little drop, that even with implementation you would hardly notice it. In example for 125mm BM-12 round trajectory height for 1km shot is below 0.5m and about 10cm at 500m and ~0.5m@500; ~2m@1000m for HEAT/HE(OF19).

Yes, but .50 cal and autocannon projectiles tend to have a lot more drop afaic. I think adding the realistic amount of drop to all projectiles would be good, not least for gameplay purposes. APCs and tanks too even though the current 'no-drop' is justified with the fact that high tech weapon systems calculate the trajectory automatically.

General Dragosh wrote: Anyway, if anyone with a 100% IRL proof that those HUMVEE turrets are much easyer to turn than i say they are, then please tell us =)

M1151's have powered turrets, the older models use the same hand crank system as that armored car uses.

Battery Powered Motorized Traversing Unit (BPMTU)
"Increased power and the ability to rotate the turret up to 8 RPMs"
On a .pdf found here: Improved Turret Drive System (ITDS) - BAE Systems

Note that's for an uparmored cupola the likes of which are in use on everything currently deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.

I don't see what the rather stable mounting of a M2 or w/e on a humvee has to do with the wobbly pintle mount in the back of a little truck has to do with the subject at hand. The suspension in a technical is probably not the most amazing thing for absorbing recoil from the Dshk system.

dtacs wrote:So, a larger cone of fire makes it easier to kill people at range? I don't see how you managed to draw that from this suggestion. The intent is to stop its use as a sniper and more of a fire support weapon that is both effective in hit and run tactics and to enforce its use as a suppressive weapon.

Prolonged fire decreases the quality of the mount and the integrity of the barrel. To assume that an Insurgent DSHk is as effective as a conventional militaries is just not prudent at all.

I think he meant what I was going to write soon. The deviation will make spraying at close range possible. In this version, you need to aim right on the enemy so you can hit him, even then, the BF2 hitbox messes with you and you can hit people through the chest and they walk away like nothing happened.

Only good thing left for insurgents and now we are gonna make it worst soon enough!!!

You are saying hit and run for techy but how you expect us go near of enemy and attack on them than fall back?When you enter close combat with enemy with techy you dont have chance.

If you want more realistic gameplay improve ak series rifle accuracy.Because we can hit enemy distance of 5m.

If you want more realistic gameplay pls decrease that blufor's weapons accuracy.Because they are like god-maded weapons.They have no recoil and you can hit what you want distance is no matter what.

'Sgt.Desert Tiger[TR wrote:;1577256']Only good thing left for insurgents and now we are gonna make it worst soon enough!!!

You are saying hit and run for techy but how you expect us go near of enemy and attack on them than fall back?When you enter close combat with enemy with techy you dont have chance.

If you want more realistic gameplay improve ak series rifle accuracy.Because we can hit enemy distance of 5m.

If you want more realistic gameplay pls decrease that blufor's weapons accuracy.Because they are like god-maded weapons.They have no recoil and you can hit what you want distance is no matter what.

Techy shouldn't be hitting and running a force that is largely superior to it. You simply DON'T hit and run a Striker with a .50 cal. Close combat with the Techy is far superior than close combat with any Blu For Jeep, hell the Russians don't even get a gunned jeep and the land rover sports only three people!

The Techy should be a troop transport/ambusher not mobile attack platform.

The AK is a VERY accurate gun, just lacking that scope makes it harder to fire at ranges, the Russian AK74 is by far one of my favorite guns. And its the same as the insurgent's afaik.

US-A/USMC weapons are good at ranges due to the scope. In CQB its very hit or miss due to the burst fire where as the AK series has wonderful CQB. Recoil exists on all guns

Now, I think the biggest issue with INS is the maps which are mostly outdated. Lashkar is by far the best and most balanced INS map for both teams.

cyberzomby wrote:Yes, thanks for adding that. Was not sure about the current situation so I added the on anouncement to it.

But still, my point remains the same. Now people will think twice of standing in front of a .50. When you add in deviation they will take a chance to snipe you off. Something you wouldn't do in a real situation.

Like most unrealistic things in PR, it is done for more realistic player behavior.

I agree

Ive been using 50 cal mounted on a tripod and in my experience its very difficult to hit with your first few shots even while aiming because you don't have a scope just a point.
The way your hitting the target is simply by firing and watching the impact and tracers until you got the target fixed.
Because it is mounted recoil isn't a problem. (the whole idea of mounting a weapon is to reduce or eliminate recoil)
For those who doesn't know... 50 cal's actually have the possibility of firing single shots, so with a lot of practice i guess it would be possible to "snipe" with it. In fact a 12.7mm bullet that fly by for example your arm has the potential of hurting you entirely because of the wind resistance (I'm not good at explaining this)

So in my opinion if it was to be realistic you should start with a quite wide deviation and the more you continually shoot it should be more accurate, or you would use fairly accurate single shots, and there should be randomly belt jams (require you to reload to fix it). BUT.... i would not implement this in PR since it would take away the fear factor of aiming at a 50 cal gunner looking your way.

As for the gun being mounted on a Toyota 4wd.... i would say if you adjust the suspension and make it stiff it would be pretty much the same as having it on the ground but it would be extremely uncomfortable to use the car off road ha-ha.

Keep the techies as they are now. I normally play as blue-for and i fear the techies when i don't have apc support......(the way it is supposed to be)

TheComedian wrote:I think he meant what I was going to write soon. The deviation will make spraying at close range possible.

Thats the absurdity of the current situation, leading a target is so ridiculously easy, and should be much more innacurate.

What you and Pirate both misunderstand is that the DSHk (and any other 50 for that matter) doesn't possess a ROF as high as a SAW, meaning the larger spread means less bullets and less chance to hit your target at range. Currently, with a slight adjustment when leading a running infantryman, you can take him down in under 10 rounds.

In this version, you need to aim right on the enemy so you can hit him, even then, the BF2 hitbox messes with you and you can hit people through the chest and they walk away like nothing happened.

And thus the close range nature of Insurgents and Taliban is encouraged as opposed to sitting on the far hill sniping with a weapon that is blatantly over-accurate.

I really don't think the 'more deviation means I'll hit things better at close' range crowd have really thought that through tbh.

Well it depends on how close it is. For 50 meters it shouldn't be too large at all.

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:I really don't think the 'more deviation means I'll hit things better at close' range crowd have really thought that through tbh.

i think they just want a little bit of spray in their grouping.