Remove squad rally points?

[00SoldierofFortune00]

Bah, I'm just saying the rally points can really detract from the main objectives. I'll give you a scenario that happened to me and my squad on Qwai River. As an SL, I wanted to set up a rally point west of fishing village. I eventually did, however the PLA was onto us. We kept having to displace, and pull back in an effort to obtain a safe position. I set up a new rally every time we successfully reached a new point, but it seemed as if the enemy was doing the same. This constant movement went back and forth across the map here went on for at least 10 to 15 minutes. By the time I felt we had reached a safe location for a new rally, we could no longer assault fishing village as they had taken government office.

And this is the sort of thing that commonly happens. Two squads run into each other, and you end up fighting over virtually nothing on some remote region of the map. It becomes more of a war of attrition than anything, all caused by a small pile of bags deployed by each side.

Granted, I'm fully aware of the major problems that could come from this. Obviously, some changes to other aspects of the game could be made to help make life with no rally points work. Here's some ideas I've had personally.

- For starters, increase the amount of firebases that can be placed on the map. Even more so, have it so that the SLs can place them without permission from the CO. However, same rules for deploying a rally point would apply here. SL must have officer kit, must have 3 or more members in the squad etc.

- Make it so that firebases and bunkers can be deployed from supply crates in addition to the supply trucks. This would allow a transport chopper to fly in, drop a crate of supplies at a squad's location and enable them to construct a firebase and/or bunker without the hassle of driving the truck across the map.

- Introduce some form of the squad vehicle concept. Where basically the SL can request a jeep from the main base, bunker or firebase rather than waiting for a whole new set to spawn on the wave timer.

- Have transport choppers capable of deploying a jeep in the same manner as a supply crate. That way, you further enhance the role of the transport chopper by giving them the ability to provide a grounded squad with extra mobility.

And troops would be fighting over nothing if there wasn't rally points.

[[T]Terranova7]

And troops would be fighting over nothing if there wasn't rally points.

If anything, the removal of rally points, which I believe combined with some of the other changes/additions I've mentioned basically substitutes the team's primary offensive tool from rally points to firebases. From my observations, firebases are hardly used currently. Squads may spawn there, but usually the smart thing to do afterwards is to set up their own rally closer to their targeted control point.

The game would still be more or less (AAS wise) about capturing CPs. Only thing changing here is the method of what players will use to spawn on prior to their assault. I realize that the squad is supposed to represent a platoon, and that the rally point should be considered some form of assembly location, but I think a pile of bags that can deployed rapidly and constantly is a poor a way to represent that.

[ReaperMAC]

Bah, I'm just saying the rally points can really detract from the main objectives. I'll give you a scenario that happened to me and my squad on Qwai River. As an SL, I wanted to set up a rally point west of fishing village. I eventually did, however the PLA was onto us. We kept having to displace, and pull back in an effort to obtain a safe position. I set up a new rally every time we successfully reached a new point, but it seemed as if the enemy was doing the same. This constant movement went back and forth across the map here went on for at least 10 to 15 minutes. By the time I felt we had reached a safe location for a new rally, we could no longer assault fishing village as they had taken government office.

Sounds like they were smart and did their job, detracting you from your objective. They were able to outmaneuver you and were able to assualt the flag with 2 or more squads. Frankly, it just sounds like you got outplayed and you came on here to "change" that.

And this is the sort of thing that commonly happens. Two squads run into each other, and you end up fighting over virtually nothing on some remote region of the map. It becomes more of a war of attrition than anything, all caused by a small pile of bags deployed by each side.

You and I know that it is not always like that, especially on full servers. You'll have squads defending while other squads move up and/or look for rallypoints (simulating 1 platoon/squad flanking and striking the blow on another platoon/squad's position.) Hence, teamwork. Unless of course, you are playing 6 vs. 6, then yeah, rally points are going to be a priority.

If anything, the removal of rally points, which I believe combined with some of the other changes/additions I've mentioned basically substitutes the team's primary offensive tool from rally points to firebases. From my observations, firebases are hardly used currently. Squads may spawn there, but usually the smart thing to do afterwards is to set up their own rally closer to their targeted control point.

Firebases are used quite frequently, from securing to assaulting, atleast what I've experienced anyways. Not to mention coming up on one or defending one is constantly a frag/nice stream of grenade spammage into the area. If they made firebases easier to defend (because right now, you have virtually NO cover), then rally point removal *may* not be such a bad idea.

[[T]MLPatriot]

removal of rally points?? one of the worst suggestions i've ever read on these forums. people keep making suggestions to encourage realism and teamwork but what they seem to forget is, often times on pubs, teamwork isnt at its highest, squads arent being led by the best SLs and Commanders dont always know what they are doing. People need to keep this in mind, that way, some of us can still enjoy the gameplay even if the rest of the team are a bunch of smacktards.

[Doc_Frank]

-- Those rally points are what really makes difference between officers, and the squads itself.

-- You can make a good guess that the squad putting its RP in the face of an enemy CP would end up respawning at main within a short time. You can also send one or two guys hunting rallies. So much for the CP spam.

-- The firebase/bunker solution could cause a confusion when spawning and regrouping (think about all the troops fighting for their kits, like a food relief shipment in a refugee camp), not to mention that most officers will want to place those points by their particular ideas.

-> Removing the RPs would solve nothing, rather the opposite I think.

[Shotgun]

yes removing rally point is realistic but people seem to be forgetting that it would be soo unbelievably boring. realistic is great but not fun if its to extream

[SleepyHe4d]

[quote=""'[T"]MLPatriot;610786']some of us can still enjoy the gameplay even if the rest of the team are a bunch of smacktards.[/quote]

What you seem to not even know is that this is a team game, even on pub servers. PS: There are plenty of deathmatch games out there right now.

[quote="Shotgun""]yes removing rally point is realistic but people seem to be forgetting that it would be soo unbelievably boring. realistic is great but not fun if its to extream[/quote]

Not really, spawning as a single soldier and running to the flag attacking over and over until you win is what's boring. It would take like 3 mins to be redeployed with an APC or Heli from the main and that would be way more fun. Squads would actually stick together every time too since you have to be redeployed from the main instead of when you die nobody gives an effort to revive you and then you respawn at the rally and head off alone and soon enough the whole squad is alone.

[WNxSarge]

IMO I think that we should keep the Rally points.
Without them most people would just be sitting around after getting killed at the main base waiting for transport to spawn.

I agree that the Apcs should be used as transport like they are in RL,
but however way you look at it, everynow and then a team will sit around doing nothing as all their transport and armor have been killed.

Yes removing the RP gives you more reason NOT to die as you will ahve to walk it from main base, and renforces the need for keeping transports alive.

However, people and transports will get knocked out, even if you give them more "REASON" for staying alive, if they are up against a better forces they will die, and transports will be taken out. Then thats when RPs play an important role in keeping the game moving forward.

I hate it when you can't do anything cause you can't get anywhere... Every time i'm on the winning team, and we have all the flags, all our armor and air support, I can't help but feel sorry for the other team, cause i know how annoyed I would be, as the game comes to a close and I can't do a thing cause I'm half way across the map, with no RP, No Transport, and my whole squad KIA.

Sure I'm all for game tests with no RP to see how it works out. But like someone said before, Gameplay needs to still be there.

[00SoldierofFortune00]

What you seem to not even know is that this is a team game, even on pub servers. PS: There are plenty of deathmatch games out there right now.

What you seem to forget, is that Rally Points encourage teamwork much much more than a firebase because it takes 2 knifes to take it out and your squad's lively hood depends on it. This is a team game, but it also has maps 10-20x bigger than a CSS map, so don't think up deathmatch.

Not really, spawning as a single soldier and running to the flag attacking over and over until you win is what's boring. It would take like 3 mins to be redeployed with an APC or Heli from the main and that would be way more fun. Squads would actually stick together every time too since you have to be redeployed from the main instead of when you die nobody gives an effort to revive you and then you respawn at the rally and head off alone and soon enough the whole squad is alone.

That's your problem right there. You are a SINGLE SOLDIER and you are going off on your own instead of waiting for your squad. There is no difference between spawning at your main and a rally point except that it is closer. Just wait for your squad instead of going rambo.


O, and I recall the same ones complaining now complaining about being spawn raped way back in the day. If RPs are removed, your spawn raping is going to reemerage on a whole new level with Bunkers DIRECTLY on the flag and Firebases 60, count it 60 Meters away from the flag which is basically half that of a RP.

[Donatello]

Removing RP is interesting idea BUT you should let SL build firebases without commander (with tracks only).

[Maxfragg]

i wonder, why you even discuss this idea so long, there is a simple sign that the devs do not consider it, they ignore this thread, so please burry this idea 6 feets in the ground and let it never come back, this great change in PR will never be undone. Rallypoints will stay

[Gore]

Maybe make it so that RPs can only be deployed within 50 or 100 meters from a firebase/bunker.

[Enderjmu]

I don't think that'd be good... because that would require you do drive a large semi in order to get a firebase down... and then you'd have to build the FB...

anyway, why not just use the firebase to spawn off of instead of the rally?

I say keep 'em. they're fine as-is.

[McGucks]

In my opinion, I wouldn't say removing rally points to utilise assets more such as vehicles, because some people waste them by driving them rambo style and just getting killed, leading to no vehicles at all and then having to walk all the way.

If you were to get rid of RP's, they'd have to find a good way of replacing but I don't really see the point in removing it.

[LordSquiffy]

That's your problem right there. You are a SINGLE SOLDIER and you are going off on your own instead of waiting for your squad. There is no difference between spawning at your main and a rally point except that it is closer. Just wait for your squad instead of going rambo.

But what if you've just died and respawned at your main because there are "no rally points"? Options? Start a very long walk, or wait for other squad menbers to die to they can join you in your very long walk. Or you could just wait around for forever and wait for PB (or your SL) to kick you for inactivity. I don't like either of those choices.

[DrMcCleod]

Absurd.
This would utterly destroy teamwork.
You would simply end up with 32 lonewolf medics vs 32 lonewolf medics.
At the moment the squad sticks together so the SL can drop Rally Points thus rewarding them with a spawn point closer to the action.

[SleepyHe4d]

At the moment the squad sticks together so the SL can drop Rally Points thus rewarding them with a spawn point closer to the action.

Why does everyone keep repeating the same arguments that I've already answered? The way teamwork and squads sticking together would be kept and possibly improved on is because of the higher chance of survival and being revived when together. The only way you can argue against the effectiveness of this is to actually playtest this so do you guys actually have any other arguments that can be proved?

This is why I've started to ignore all the new comments in this thread, people are just repeating what has already been discussed.

[DrMcCleod]

Why does everyone keep repeating the same arguments that I've already answered? The way teamwork and squads sticking together would be kept and possibly improved on is because of the higher chance of survival and being revived when together. The only way you can argue against the effectiveness of this is to actually playtest this so do you guys actually have any other arguments that can be proved?

This is why I've started to ignore all the new comments in this thread, people are just repeating what has already been discussed.

The only squad that would have any survivability in that case would be 6 medics.
If players stuck together purely because it led to better survival chances then they would do it now. Since that doesn't happen, it suggests a rather large flaw in your logic.

Typically, being in a public squad actually DESCREASES your survival chances. Firstly, you are easier to spot. Secondly, you might be trying for a bit of stealth but Private Nubbins would prefer to plink away from 200m with his shotgun. Thirdly, untrained players tend to bunch up or move in a column, improving your chances of both teamkills and heavy casualties to grenades. Fourth, you end up spending time looking to see where your squadmates are, rather than watching for the enemy.

Only by FORCING teamwork through the use of RPs do players bother to learn the skills that allow them to work more effectively together than they do as lone wolves - but they WONT do it by default.

[SleepyHe4d]

If players stuck together purely because it led to better survival chances then they would do it now. Since that doesn't happen, it suggests a rather large flaw in your logic.

Only by FORCING teamwork through the use of RPs do players bother to learn the skills that allow them to work more effectively together than they do as lone wolves - but they WONT do it by default.

Well that is where we disagree. I don't think rallies force anything besides give players a reason not to stick together because they can just respawn right back into the action of their own leisure. Without that they will eventually realize that they have to go through more trouble if they don't increase their survival chances by using better teamwork.

Like I said this needs a playtest to see if it would work but I don't know what the chances are of that happening since not much people have an open mind to this so I guess this thread is just at a stand still for now.