Is PR really a reality mod?

[AgentMongoose]

I would love a Canada vs USA map set in down town manhatan.

[Snazz]

The name 'Project Reality' attracts a variety of criticisms from those who don't understand the mods actual focus.

There is no storyline or politics involved, the battle scenarios are mostly fictional.

The only thing that suggests Iron Ridge is in Ukraine is the caption for the map preview screen shots, otherwise it could be assumed it's in Russia like the rest of the Eastern European maps.

[Vepr]

So basically pr is a bunch of ideas grouped together?

Well what if they added a nuke? i'm sure that is insane but some one has to say NO! to that.

[Rhino]

I guess PR's focus is on realistic teamplay rather than realistic storylines. In an ideal world it would be both of them, but when the mapper's made up his mind, it's hard to get him to back down.

I guess it's just that as PR has progressed, it's fanned out from the US vs. PLA and MEC to being pretty much every single country in the world fighting each other - and that's not too realistic (even if the gameplay is a good representation of modern combat)

As stated by others in this topic, PR's focus is on realistic weapons and realistic tactics (ie, gameplay).

PR, like vBF2 is based slightly in the future and as such, its conflicts other than our Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts are fictional. It would be stupid to throw away all of our conventional warfare maps, weapons etc and only go with insurgency style gameplay, weapons and maps just because that's what's happening today when we can have both.

If this was a WW2 mod then yes, we would ensure what we did is close to histroy as possible but since we are making stuff about present day battles that are not even over and "slightly in the future", fiction conflicts, we can't.

Both actually, i have been noticing some similarities between PR and GC. When GC started it was completely unique and had nothing that PR had. Now GC is being upgraded time to time and we release a video on spawning stuff. As you may recall "[tutorial] Georgian Conflict creating a firebase" When .9 (2 releases after that was introduced to GC) i noticed the Anti tank rocket launcher, almost the same idea as we had.

My question is, and i am speaking for all the smaller mods, Why is PR taking ideas from smaller mods?

I only saw that video a few days ago because it was posted on our forums suggesting we should deploy stuff in the same way you guys do which isn't going to happen for reasons I've explained in that topic already but deployable TOWs we have had planned for a very long time, has been suggested constantly and the main reason we didn't do it in the past was because we didn't think the mod was ready for them and they where possibly too powerful (which many ppl think they are now they are in). If you guys want to go into "who copied whos idea" ****, you guys obviously copied our "deployable" idea since we where the first mod to do it, a very, very long time ago....

That's exactly the thing. Mod of the Year is based on popularity, so by its nature it links quality with quantity. PR is a fantastic mod, but it really does monopolise due to the feedback effect of its initial popularity. Two mods can do the same thing, but PR's will be seen as the original and better. That's what this thread is about to me at least.

Who's going to care about a little conflict in Georgia when the whole world is at war in PR? Yes it's life, but it's not really fair. Just be a little kinder to the little mods before you overshadow them.

So you came over to our forums to claim that we are now stealing away players from your mod? Your mod is very late into the game on BF2 modding and its tough to get any mod to have players playing it let alone when you guys "copy" the realism mod "idea" of an existing mod (us)...

"Hogging" means that so many people play PR that it's now past the critical mass whereby it is actually physically impossible for you to be anything less than most popular. The word of mouth has so many people coming in that it is actually sucking dry mods around you. I know that's not your fault, and congratulations for getting in early and lasting the distance, but just know that we're painfully aware of how hard it is to maintain an orbit around the sun of BF2 modding with the Jupiter of PR drawing in all the asteroids of players.

No the reason why players dont play other BF2 mods is because of the way BF2 is setup with ranked servers etc. Why do you think no one these days plays POE2, USI, Battleships, BF Pirates and 100s of other grate mods out there that all offer something unique and all of what I mentioned very different to PR and its not because there quality is bad or they aint fun, its because the BF2 player would rather play on a vBF2 ranked server to unlock his next unlock than play a mod, fact. We had to work so damn hard in the early days of PR to get anyone to play our mod and the only reason why the players we got to play it have stuck with PR is because it offers something totally different from any other mod or game out there. If your mod is going to get any players your going to have to offer something totally different that will attract and keep the players playing and its going to need to be more than just a deployable AT, air lifting and stuff like that in order to do so.

And hell yes Editor's Choice is based on popularity. You think the editor has the time to play every mod? Get real.

You would be surprised at how many mods the guys over at moddb play in fact. They try pretty much every mod they can on there release.

I also suggest you listen to this if you dont believe they enjoyed PR: Developer Banter - Project Reality feature - Mod DB




Please guys, dont claim we are stealing ideas, players or anything like that because we simply are not and if there is anything we like from anouther mod, we always ask first which you can go and ask FH2 now if you like since we have asked is it ok to use there blur around the scopes etc even thou we had managed to code it ourself and have it fully working, we still asked if it was ok with them. We dont and never will steal from any other mod and when ever we find anyone else stealing and we can prove it we crack down on them hard.


Thanks.


EDIT:

So basically pr is a bunch of ideas grouped together?

Well what if they added a nuke? i'm sure that is insane but some one has to say NO! to that.

Wow grate idea vepr we never thought of a nuke just like we never though of deployable AT and things like that. We better steal that idea and make it quickly before you guys can so we can claim ownership!!!

[UberWazuSoldier]

If it has no such person then I guess he was addressing everyone. Anyway, I think we're all friends now so it's okay.

EDIT: I'm not sure Rhino read the whole topic, but I really don't blame him. It didn't really reach any conclusion until the end. I think you'll agree the whole thing was extremely emotionally charged until towards the end.

Actually we didn't "steal" your deployable idea, I used to play Sandbox - so I assumed PR had been inspired by that, I don't know which had deployable objects first - and it really doesn't matter at all. VEPR actually wanted players to be able to build the map so that it would be different each time, so our deployable system was a toned-down version of that idea (and not from yours). And it's silly to say we "copied" your "realism" idea - considering the plethora of mods based on that very idea. I'm sure you too remember when PR was one of many of those weapons and vehicles tweaking mods. So no, I don't agree that popularity is all what you work for, it's also partly luck. Operation Dead dawn was made in about 2 weeks initially, and within a day it had more players than our old Roflbox which we had been working at solidly for 1.5 years.

I know you're trying to defend your mod, but I hope this won't flare up again. Goodness me do I agree that your mod deserved to win Editor's Choice, but the snide remark about us not winning it did definitely qualify a response. Our mod wasn't even around back then!

[AgentMongoose]

The use of a nuclear weapon in the modern world would yeild an emidiate world response if not retaliation.

[Rudd]

But i am hoping i get to see some maps fought on US soil, if the setting is that fictional.

its not a matter of 'make a US map'

you'd need a whole new set of statics, the xpack ones aren't that great and don't all have LM samples

I'd enjoy a US setting, but you do need som1 to actually set up the infrastructure to be on par with the quality of the other maps.

[Rhino]

Actually we didn't "steal" your deployable idea, I used to play Sandbox - so I assumed PR had been inspired by that, I don't know which had deployable objects first - and it really doesn't matter at all.

KingOfCamelot who was a Project Reality developer until he "retired" many years ago was the first who invented the entire getting python to spawn objects etc and its what sandbox, our deployable system etc was all based on and it all came from us I can tell you that for a fact. We also had our deployables ingame (I think v0.5?) etc before the first version of sandbox was released

And I dont really care where you got the idea from etc or that you guys have deployable, the bit I care about is you guys claiming that we are/where stealing stuff and if that's the case, you guys have stolen more than us, but I dont believe you can really steal "ideas" etc in the modding world.

Also if you guys have really calmed down about this all you might want to make sure BlackDragon etc isn't posting everywhere he can that we are stealing stuff too...

[UberWazuSoldier]

@Rhino - Here's hoping we'll still be friends eh? I do disagree with the idea of "hard work and offering something different = success". For years I've been working on mods, and and reject your idea of them being same-ish. This last year-and-a-bit I've been working on multiple mods, I don't even have time to play any rounds with my clan or visit my friends' houses. I am in 4 mod teams, 3 of them are 3 persons or less (2 are 2-person). When I'm not modding for one of those, I'm crawling bfeditor.org, so don't get me started on hard work, that's like saying E=MC and forgetting the squared - it's not just hard work and new ideas. I've had BF2 for 4.5 years, and for 3 years I was a Private First Class; that's how little free time I have. I know you didn't mean it, but that's twisting the dagger a bit - Why do I even bother with all of this? No sir, I couldn't disagree with you any more. I respect you hugely, but it really is crushing to turn down parties so I can finish up a zombie or ninja or helicopter, but get no outside acknowledgement and be bombarded with unanswerable questions about why I wasn't there. I know you didn't mean to cause offense, but nobody should get too self-congratulatory about their achievements - luck is a factor, and it is not on my side.

[BrownBadger]

Future? are you blind? What does Ukraine have to do with it?

How can you predict the future?

Most of all, where are you coming up with this nonscense?

Wouldn't it be more offensive if there were Ukraine forces, and they were OPFOR in your own country? Just like Chinese forces, Russian forces, in practically every game ever made?

To me this just sounds like you have a beef with Project Reality, if it's Pride or because you simply don't like it, I don't see the point of any of these posts. A lot of mods and games today are created to resemble a war that is going on, or that has been, but other than that NOTHING is anything close to resemble strategys, tactics, weapons.

I'll take a fictional mod with realistic aspects over a Historically correct mod with unrealistic and bad gameplay any day.

[Psyrus]

I respect you hugely, but it really is crushing to turn down parties so I can finish up a zombie or ninja or helicopter, but get no outside acknowledgement and be bombarded with unanswerable questions about why I wasn't there. I know you didn't mean to cause offense, but nobody should get too self-congratulatory about their achievements - luck is a factor, and it is not on my side.

Just to touch on the 'luck' part... Perhaps it does play a role, but I would say marketing and POIs play a far greater role in a mod's success. PR attracted/attracts a specific type of player, and these players don't get similar gameplay from any other game in the market, past or present (OFP comes close but not quite) and thus the following is extremely loyal. Of course each release brings a slew of BF2 players over to give it a try, but 6 months down the track it's generally the old populace again + maybe 10% new players who have stuck on. You've mentioned expanding your mod's horizons, and I think that'll be the turning point in terms of player attraction. Again I can't talk for the dev team but I would love to see someone of high quality work and commitment working alongside the devs of PR to achieve something even more spectacular!

I'd just like to say while admirable, I would be reevaluating your relative commitments between work [mods] & social life. There needs to be a good balance to remain sane and balanced, don't get too caught up in the never ending work cycle!!

On that note, we have some questions for you [link]

[Rhino]

@Rhino - Here's hoping we'll still be friends eh? I do disagree with the idea of "hard work and offering something different = success". For years I've been working on mods, and and reject your idea of them being same-ish. This last year-and-a-bit I've been working on multiple mods, I don't even have time to play any rounds with my clan or visit my friends' houses. I am in 4 mod teams, 3 of them are 3 persons or less (2 are 2-person). When I'm not modding for one of those, I'm crawling bfeditor.org, so don't get me started on hard work, that's like saying E=MC and forgetting the squared - it's not just hard work and new ideas. I've had BF2 for 4.5 years, and for 3 years I was a Private First Class; that's how little free time I have. I know you didn't mean it, but that's twisting the dagger a bit - Why do I even bother with all of this? No sir, I couldn't disagree with you any more. I respect you hugely, but it really is crushing to turn down parties so I can finish up a zombie or ninja or helicopter, but get no outside acknowledgement and be bombarded with unanswerable questions about why I wasn't there. I know you didn't mean to cause offense, but nobody should get too self-congratulatory about their achievements - luck is a factor, and it is not on my side.

I have no problem with you guys as long as your not claiming we steal anything which I've seen posted in a bunch of different places.

And sorry I'm not saying your work is pointless etc all I was saying is if mod population meant so much you should either think of modding for a different engine or work on a popular mod. Many people including myself enjoy the actual making part some what more than the playing part and seeing others play there mod etc, main reason why so many BF2 mods are still in development and I think its a huge shame more people dont play more BF2 mods but that's simply the way it is.

[UberWazuSoldier]

I'll take a fictional mod with realistic aspects over a Historically correct mod with unrealistic and bad gameplay any day.

Pardon me? Are you trying to lose an argument?

@Rhino - I don't think you copied a thing. I was trying to act as a mediator until some of your fans started throwing some very low punches about our mod (and that's not just restricted to this thread - every time somebody mentions airlifting, someone mentions Georgian Conflict, and a torrent of PR devs post **** about the system I coded just because they lack the patience to do it themselves)

I'd like to finish up by saying that there are 3 methods for spawning objects in-game, and GC uses a hyrbid of two of them - so you can't say we stole that either. Anyway, how can you possibly claim we "stole more than" you? We've both stolen precisely nothing, so perhaps you'd like me to dispel that idea if you could provide of list of what we've supposedly stolen.

[Bob_Marley]

I grow tired of these shenanigans.

Locked.

For future reference PR (like BF2, which it is simply an extension of in this particular area) is set in Next Sunday AD.

[Rhino]

@Rhino - I don't think you copied a thing. I was trying to act as a mediator until some of your fans started throwing some very low punches about our mod (and that's not just restricted to this thread - every time somebody mentions airlifting, someone mentions Georgian Conflict, and a torrent of PR devs post **** about the system I coded just because they lack the patience to do it themselves)

Hence why I'm referring to GC as a whole and not just yourself since I've seen at least two GC devs claim we have stolen stuff from them and I dunno who is the leader of GC but you all need to say we have stolen stuff, or none of you.

And I dont know what your on about PR devs posting **** about your system you coded?

I'd like to finish up by saying that there are 3 methods for spawning objects in-game, and GC uses a hyrbid of two of them - so you can't say we stole that either. Anyway, how can you possibly claim we "stole more than" you? We've both stolen precisely nothing, so perhaps you'd like me to dispel that idea if you could provide of list of what we've supposedly stolen.

No all the stuff is free for use anyways but this is the main way I'm aware of but I dunno the full extent to it: King of Camelot and his host.rcon_invoke("object.create - Official BF Editor Forums

All I was saying is if you guys are claiming we have stolen the "ideas" behind deployable ATs and w/e, then you guys have stolen the "ideas" of deployable from somewhere else etc. I am not saying you guys have stolen anything just that I'm only comparing it along that view point is all.