Beirut : docks as the first flag for the Russians

[fabioxxxx]

The docks flag it's too close from the IDF main.

When i am playing in the russian side and we have docks as the first flag, it's really hard to take it . most of time it's a fail. the idf forces start coming as soon as we land.

playing in the IDF side a full squad can deploy machine guns, tow, aa, aa kit and heavy at kit in the mountain (in less then 10 minutes), making impossible for russians to land in docks (well i love doing that , but when you are in the receiving end it's not that funny).

mode : *** standard

[AFsoccer]

Thanks Fabio. This is a tough map for the Russians, even when they have to get Factory first, so we'll continue to look at ways of balancing it better, such as delayed spawns for IDF, etc.

[PoisonBill]

I agree, but once your in the city you get some awesome battles battles.

Would a havoc in the start of the round be reasonable? Could defend the push of the Russians, once its gone, Russia should have pushed forward enough and dug in as well. That is if Russia has a reasonable Pilot team, ofc!

[Murphy]

Havoc spawning at start might be a little excessive, but a fairly short spawn time wouldn't be that over powered. I mean look at muttrah, mec gets along just fine in what appears to be a rather one sided battle on paper (at least asset wise, as for flags mec has a major advantage not unlike IDF on beirut).

[Stealthgato]

CAS Mi-17?

[PLODDITHANLEY]

except on muttrah MEC have to cap south to get logy's.

[Shovel]

CAS Mi-17?

So much this.

Ayway, the map is too hard for the Russians, the IDF is pretty much guaranteed to steamroll over them in every game. That might not be in the map design though, the IDF may have superior weapons. IMO, the CTAR could be toned down a bit.

[ComradeHX]

That is if Russia has a reasonable Pilot team, ofc!

I do not like depending on the work of two people for a successful round(for both attackers and defenders).

Will create too many rounds in which noob pilots screw up the entire game.

[Xander[nl]]

This could perhaps be solved by copying Muttrah's system; on Beirut I think it's bad the IDF get 2 Logis and 1 Logi APC from start and can set up 3-6 FOBs within minutes, anywhere on the map. Perhaps a delayed spawn, or a spawn based on flag capture could mean the Russians get more time to set up and give them more of a chance.

[Mikemonster]

Beirut is another example of the flawed rush system that promotes rushing over FOB's .. If the IDF stopped to buid a FOB en route to Docks they wouldn't be able to isolate the Russian side. But as it is they know they don't have to bother because they can just rush all the flags, zerg rush the advance Russian squad, and then build a nifty firebase allowing them to control the Docks location [with sheer weight of fire from the spawning squads].

If you have some switched on SL's on the Russian side you can build some aggressive FOBs to counter this technique (using the abundance of air trans/air crates), but let's be honest on such a map there is normally only one squad that has this approach (at best) meaning the Russian team is always on the back foot because one aggressive FOB is pointless unless supported by another for reinforcements when it's over-run.. And the other squads are always so occupied with running aimlessly around in the Docks compound.

[40mmrain]

Just played a game with the docks flag in play. The russians really had no chance.

If they were to have a rally point spawn on docks at the start of the game, along with a brdm 14.5, and some logis spawn once they cap that could be a much more balanced layout.

[BadMad]

IDF Side:
Only Transport Trucks and Jeeps spawns.No Logi Trucks and APCs.
After first flag capped (by IDF) 2 Logi trucks and 2 .50 APCs(M113) spawns.
That would balance situation with Docks as first flag for russians.And no need to change anything on russian side(except adding new Mi17 CAS in next path )
IMO.

[Murphy]

Had a docks round last night as IDF, we took the 2 APCs and fended off a few helo drops until our inf could start to build fobs. Quite a short round with the Russians never gaining a foothold on the land, which kind of made me sad because inf fights in Beirut are always quite epic. There is really no point in giving IDF the Docks flag, and that's exactly what happens when the flag is in play....IDF take it without any initial resistance, even the BDRMs couldn't make it to land before our fob was started.

[LieutenantNessie]

Nah, russians just need to get that 1 flag that's been a pain in their *** and you get rest of the flags in about 10 mins of that

[Deer]

Since AASv4 was added (not by me btw) flags are so close eachothers that now its way too easy to blitzkrieg multiple flags at once as IDF.. but for russia its not that easy.. this completely breaks the balance and ruins the gameplay.

Also the removal of many helicopters further nerfed russian chances to keep their foothold on land and flags.

These both changes are really badly breking the map, will fix it, ill do the gameplay myself again for next patch. Probably remove all the changes, map was being played quite often before these changes were made.

[Murphy]

AASv4 has more of an impact on the flags following the first one if I understand what it does. Would the dock's flag not happen just as frequently without AASv4? I believe AASv4 is key to keeping the flags in an order that makes logical sense, and I do not believe having a mix-up of capping order would do anything other then make IDF take longer to cap up to docks.

Could you make the hill impassable to logistic trucks? Might it be possible to block the north/south tunnel so that only infantry can make it through? The road that leads up to the north east of the island towards the main bridge also gives IDF an advantage and has little value to a Russian team that cannot base rape, as by the time the IDFs first flag is in play Russia will surely have plenty of fobs on the mainland.

This is one of my favorite maps, and the only issue I ever really see is with the docks flag which is why it would be a shame if you guys had to do something drastic.

[fabioxxxx]

The docks flag was removed ?

I have been playing for a while

... docs and coastal settlement never enter as one of the enabled flags ...

I miss then but at least we can play more . they still could enter as idf primary flags, its kind of a waste of map .




the idf namer apc at the start it's a pain in the *** ! It always goes straight to factory...
you could make it spawn like the muttrah mec apcs after the first flag is captured XP

[Web_cole]

The Namer probably should be on delayed spawn, its hard enough for the Russians to get a foothold even without factoring in the Namer.

[saXoni]

Docks and Coastal Settlement is only available in the alternate version, as far as I know.

[chrisweb89]

And inf I think. The alt layer is the best layer on this map, 64 is ruined by the namer, combined with the shitty long range capability of russian AT.