Realistic Middle Eastern Faction?

[Spartan]

Hello, apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, I had a look but couldn't find anything to this effect.

I realise (and am very happy) that your first priority is to get a working British faction into the game. In a subsequent release is it possible that we might see something more realistic than a fictional "middle eastern coalition"?

I understand it might be a slightly sensitive subject as this is an ongoing conflict and that there are always people on the various BF2 messageboards who fail to see the difference between a middle eastern army and a terrorist force, but I think that it detracts from the realism somewhat to be fighting a fictional force made up of vaguely connected countries.

cheers
-Spartan-

[Beckwith]

people have problems with the hole MEC thing i dont quite see why, although seeing as how this is a reality geared mod i think it would be fairly cool to have it more Iraq and Afgan based and actaully use one or both as the middle eastern army, i think the reason EA choose MEC was because its based in a future date and theres no historical basis ie DC, plus it mightve been a hassel to name the Mid east country Iran or Syria or something, PR however would/could have a story line based on the two current wars and actually use them without much of a "can of worms" so to speak.

[Spartan]

well, in terms of BF2, I dont have a huge problem with it. However this is the Project Reality mod, and a fictional coalition of countries who aren't exactly on speaking terms justified only by the fact that this is happening "in the future" doesn't exactly give you that realistic feel that I believe this mod is going for.

(without being accused of being a "cheese-eating surrender monkey liberal type" etc. it also goes a little way to furthering the stereotype that all middle eastern countries are 'the enemy'. But, that's not really my concern. I just like my reality mods realistic )

[Beckwith]

(without being accused of being a "cheese-eating surrender monkey liberal type" etc. it also goes a little way to furthering the stereotype that all middle eastern countries are 'the enemy'. But, that's not really my concern. I just like my reality mods realistic )

thats probably a good point

but anyways i think it would be cool to actually use Iraq and Afghanistan as the opp forces, considering the devs have been wishy-washy on when exactly the time period is i think it would be great if it were set to the current conflicts in both countries, or an extension there of ie "its 2008-2010 and the conflicts havent ended theyve only increased" that sorta thing

[Spartan]

So no one else really cares then?

Surely without an organised, well equipped army to fight against...well...all of the new toys we will have to play with on the US/UK side are almost...wasted. It'll just be like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Beckwith]

not to mention the fact that you might have the same problem that POE has, all the toys are on the US/UK side your gonna get all the runway camping TK for planes type people, opp needs some toys to

[Dr.x]

you have to choose between Real Life with shitty weaps for MEC

or

Gameplay and even the weapons for mec

[Spartan]

Why? I'm quite sure that the military advisors here would tell us that the Iraqi army aren't/weren't quite as badly equipped as the heavily biased (considering the subjective nature of embedded reporting) media might have told us.

I would not consider myself a military expert, and may yet be proved wrong. But didn't saddam have a republican guard or something of the sort who were very well equipped and were considered to be something of an elite force? I remember towards the beginning of current operations in Iraq, there was a lot of talk as to how hard it might be to take them down.

Not all middle eastern soldiers are "insurgents"

[Tactical Advantage]

Saddam probably did have an elite force, but it was probably by the standards of the Iraq itself, we both have militaries, but not all militaries are the same, China's and the US's military are much better equiped.

[Beckwith]

well as far as the first gulf war went the Iraqis had decent equipment,(i was told by a former ranger that the US runs war games using t-72's at the national training center and when a T-72 is used by a well trained crew it can take on an M1A2 and win) but there biggest thing was there numbers the Iraqi army in the early 90's was supposedly up to 1 million troops

i dont feel that any Arab army will ever beat a Western power, not for anything to do with race or what not but from what i hear NCO's in Arab armys have no power, NCO's are in my opinion the backbone of any great army

[Dr.x]

Yea beckwith,

I dont think any Middle Eastern country/ Group can Beat them, They are trying to Diminish Morale and make the american people believe they dont need to be there anymore. Kind of what happend in vietnam, Us had superior Weapons and technolgoy but after the death toll the us people did not see fit to continue the war.

im no war historian but what ive read this is what I believe is happening.

please correct me if im wrong

[Ugly Duck]

A "MEC" just makes more sense from a gameplay point of view. Reality is, to my knowledge, refering to realistic gameplay. That by no means requires a realistic conflict. A so called middle eastern coalition would be able to afford just about anything, they do control a large part of the global economy in the form of oil. However one country alone isn't going to do it. Most of the countries there have second rate armor and equipment, realistic gameplay would put them at a severe disadvantage.

[Spartan]

Hmm. I have been looking into the details of the "republican guard" and from what I can tell (again, im fully prepared for the experts to prove me wrong) they were actually very well equipped. At least at the time of the first gulf war, they had a lot of state of the art equipment.

Whether or not any of you "think" or "feel" that the middle east could ever beat the USA is surely a very seperate topic. The backbone of all military operations is money, and we are talking about some of the wealthiest countries in the world. Whatever fox news might say, these people are not barbarians.

If this is a reality mod, then why would you not want realistic enemies?

[Eddie Baker]

Hmm. I have been looking into the details of the "republican guard" and from what I can tell (again, im fully prepared for the experts to prove me wrong) they were actually very well equipped. At least at the time of the first gulf war, they had a lot of state of the art equipment.

Yes, the Republican Guard and Iraqi Air Force had some very good equipment (even by today's standards) in 1990. Su-24 Fencer, Su-25 Frogfoot, MiG-29s, and Astros-II MLRS for example. Also, they had an anti-ship squadron of Mirage F1s equipped with Exocet (they could carry 2 each); they crippled the USS Stark in the Persian Gulf two years before the war. This anti-ship missile capability was one of Iraq's greatest assets, since they had next to no naval capability (Iran was and is the naval power in the Persian Gulf).

Had their morale, leadership and C4I been better, ODS could and probably would have been much more costly.

Remember, even things that are low-tech or outdated can kill you if the guys controlling them are skilled and motivated.

[Black Beret]

Eddie Baker]Remember, even things that are low-tech or outdated can kill you if the guys controlling them are skilled and motivated.

Quoted for truth.

[Tacamo]

The somewhat difficult issue is what to equip a coalition from that region with. Since they've got F-15's, F-16's, various MiG's, Patriots, SA-10's, M1A1'a and various T-XX series of tanks depending on what nations are involved. The Iranians will be flying F-14's after the US Navy retires them, so they've got quite a variety of weaponry in the theater.

[Figisaacnewton]

Make a terrorist army, and offshoot of the MEC, with similar weapons, but not equal. Think the next version older of whatever the MEC has, thats what the terrorists get.

also, since they have crappy weapons, the maps they should be in should be set up in thier favor (they have lots of cover, US has little), more flags for them, ambush type scenarios maybe, where the US has to protect a VIP(or certain vehicle) and drive through a city w/o dying.

[TAW_Doedel]

Having a realistic Middle Eastern faction would take a lot of balancing work... here's some cool suggestions!

- Remove all vehicles from MEC inventory. Give them only trucks, cars, 'technicals', buses, etc. No T-90 tanks, Flanker strike aircraft, or any of that silliness.

- Give all MEC kits C4! Roadside bombs galore!

- If you are infact going to remove the Eryx/etc heavy anti-tank weapon from the normal game and have it as a spawnable kit on maps, give the MEC an RPG-7 kit, that they can spawn as, and, most importantly, make it realistic -- ie, popping one off through a window will annihilate everything inside that room. Much like a grenade. Hence, Rocket Propelled Grenade.

What (I hope) you'd find is that although this sort of ragtag "insurgent" faction would not be able to take on the USMC in a straight on, head-to-head fight, it would add a lot of interesting strategic and tactical aspects and if balanced carefully an 'even' product could still result. On the one hand you'd have M1 Abrams rumbling through city streets behind arguably the best armour in the world, and on the other, you'd have a lone 'insurgent' soldier with an improvised explosive device ready to ambush that behemoth of a tank. And you'd have an Ah-64 Apache Longbow hovering over a city ready to destroy anything and everything, and a single man with an SA-7 hiding in some backyard alley about to shoot it down. Point being if done properly a faction with no vehicles, no airplanes and no sophisticated weaponry of any kind could still take on a well-equipped heavily armed force.

[Dr.x]

Yea this is all fine and dandy but no one will want to play mec because there arnet any planes or such so You cant Do much.

[Beckwith]

Yea this is all fine and dandy but no one will want to play mec because there arnet any planes or such so You cant Do much.

yea hes rite people people like there toys