Civilians killing with rocks?

[Buren06]

Feel free to move this thread if it is in the wrong section. Also feel free to remove it entirely if this has been brought up many times before, although I did search for it.

Am I the only one that feels the collaborator's ability to kill with rocks without punishment is ridiculous? I understand that killing an enemy with rocks isn't directly aiding the insurgency, but that doesn't mean that one should be able to do it without consequences.

Personally, if an unarmed civilian was approaching me - rock in hand - with the intent and ability to kill I would do everything in my power to prevent that from happening. I probably wouldn't shoot him right away, but if he started bashing my head in I would seriously consider it - and would do so with a clear conscience.

Just not sure why killing a civilian to spare one's own life is considered punishable. I would be all for rock-throwing as a distraction and means of harassment, but not as a lethal weapon; which it is, used properly.

[dtacs]

The issue is not that the civilians cannot be punished, its the fact that a rock being thrown at a soldier is so lethal. I've seen unsuspecting players being killed by civilian mobs. Unrealistic, stupid and doesn't contribute to healthy gameplay.

[spiked_rye]

;1727417']Well it's realistic, you can kill someone with few well placed hits in the head with the rock.

That was going through my head, then I realised that soldiers wear helmets Seriously, it takes hours to die from a well organised stoneing (according to Amnesty).

[Kain888]

Civiallians that try to kill soldiers in PR with rocks usually end up being arrested, so it's not a problem. Just make sure to operate in squad and have specialist. IMO some representation of angry mobs is cool to have in PR and makes game mode a bit more unique.

[Rudd]

No damage, but causes suppression would be a good idea imo.

Though the benefit of damaging rocks is that it makes a specialist in your squad even more useful since you can shotgun civilians without punishment (was implemented because civilians were fleeing to water to avoid stabby!)

[Kain888]

No damage, but causes suppression would be a good idea imo.

Though the benefit of damaging rocks is that it makes a specialist in your squad even more useful since you can shotgun civilians without punishment (was implemented because civilians were fleeing to water to avoid stabby!)

To be honest I was never killed by rocks, neither any of my squad members were. I killed few times guy as civilian, true but usually lonewolves or snipers that were doing very, very stupid or reckless stuff and shouldn't be there anyway if playing as team.

[Spook]

If a fully geared US Marine can not handle some skinny Iraqi throwing rocks at him, something went wrong in his training.

[Kain888]

If a fully geared US Marine can not handle some skinny Iraqi throwing rocks at him, something went wrong in his training.

Like kill all the kids that throw rocks?

[jerkzilla]

If a fully geared US Marine can not handle some skinny Iraqi throwing rocks at him, something went wrong in his training.

Which is why this usually happens to players that kind of deserve to be stoned to death.

Also, it's freaking hilarious and it'd be a pity to remove such a harmless form of fun from the game.

[Mikemonster]

It's realistic and happens in all 'peacekeeping' operations around the world.

The people throwing the rocks are trying to kill or grievously wound the soldiers behind the shields, if they got their hands on the soldier they would in all likelihood tear him apart.

The answer isn't to shoot the civilians dead, it never has been. Proof of this is the rare events where civilians have been shot - It is always big news and condemned by the armed forces.

For instance, look at the six murdered British RMP in Iraq. They had insufficient equipment and numbers to deal with a baying mob (for various reasons) and unfortunately paid with their lives.


One point I will make however - There is a picture online of a warrior that became stuck and was petrol bombed by an angry crowd in a succesful freeing of SAS soldiers from an Iraqi police force jail (the soldiers escaped with burns).. To my knowledge civilians were shot in that instance, which does counteract my point..

[KiloJules]

I play Collaborateur about 90-95% of the time I play on the insurgents side.
I managed to kill maybe 5 Blufor with the rocks. But as said before - those deserved it and/or reacted totally wrong!

There is nothing wrong with a rock dealing damage - it probably hurts.
And they are not that lethal and easy to use as some of you wanna make them out here.
tbh most of them just slightly pass the head of the Blufor with doing nothing.

I don't get why so many people state that the insurgency mode is broken and Blufor are dominating and bla bla bla but on the other hand the one guy without a real weapon suddenly is to OP?!?

Get over it!

If a civilian is able to kill you with a couple of well placed rocks...what do you think the same guy would have done to you if he had a gun...

[Xander[nl]]

One point I will make however - There is a picture online of a warrior that became stuck and was petrol bombed by an angry crowd in a succesful freeing of SAS soldiers from an Iraqi police force jail (the soldiers escaped with burns).. To my knowledge civilians were shot in that instance, which does counteract my point..

However, the occasional throwing of a small rock is something different entirely than throwing petrol bombs at an armored vehicle.

[Buren06]

No damage, but causes suppression would be a good idea imo.

Though the benefit of damaging rocks is that it makes a specialist in your squad even more useful since you can shotgun civilians without punishment (was implemented because civilians were fleeing to water to avoid stabby!)

I don't think we ever have to worry about Specialist becoming obsolete. If nothing else, maybe they could be the only ones to gain intel from killing a civilian. Killing civies at any time will always be a valuable enough attribute to the squad to warrant having one.

By my last tally, it takes in the ballpark of 6-8 rocks to kill - as tested in coop. (If you have had a different experience please let me know. Those NPC buggers wouldn't stand still) If you have a full squad of civies, each would only have to hit a soldier once or twice in order to kill. I'm surprised this isn't more widely regarded as a problem.

I don't personally believe it should be a punishable offense - but only as long as it's not so lethal. The fact that this kind of harassment is very much a part of modern combat is realistic and a good point. However, saying that a handful of hits with a stone - of which you have an unlimited supply - will damage you to the point of becoming combat ineffective is nether realistic nor a good point, IMO.

[Mikemonster]

The problem in my eyes is when you have collaborators mixed with gunmen. And the ability of a collaborator to instantly become a gunman by picking up a kit.

For instance, in one infuriating event as Blufor there was an enemy FOB at the watertower in Fallujiah. They had an Arty IED kit and had planted IED's all around.. It was impossible to get close because there were gunmen amongst them (one for every three collaborators).

They had roped up the watertower and basically worked as forward controllers for the gunmen. They could revive any shot gunmen in time to kill you when your back was turned, and if you got the FOB they would blow up an IED and then rebuild it (collaborators had cell-phone).

It was a daft situation, they even nearly managed to build an SPG on the top of the watertower.

[SGT.Ice]

Civis are realistic aside from the hook. And Epipen. But that's what makes insurgency interesting. And rocks are lethal in reality. When I was a kid I chucked a rock in pitch black at someone, you could see down to the bone after that. Your imaginations can take you from there.

The problem in my eyes is when you have collaborators mixed with gunmen. And the ability of a collaborator to instantly become a gunman by picking up a kit.

Go watch the ending of black hawk down.

[SGT.Ice]

By my last tally, it takes in the ballpark of 6-8 rocks to kill

Sometimes if you get constant headshots it'll take 1-2 on a completely fine person in PR

[dtacs]

Civis are realistic aside from the hook. And Epipen.

The collaborator is the most unrealistic, gimmicky and stupidly portrayed role in the entire mod. Its purpose is moot considering players can tactically kill themselves in order to exploit a game mechanic, and use the kit in the most unrealistic way they possibly can. The IP concept is also flawed as caches are revealed regardless of civilian deaths.

My opinion is to totally remove it instead of having the consistent fiddle/test/fiddle/test that we've been experiencing for the past 2-3 years. Bring back the Doctor.

Go watch the ending of black hawk down.

When the woman picks up the AK and Ewan McGregor shoots her? That's hardly a source for the situation of an Insurgency as the entire premise of Op. Gothic Serpent was a capture mission, not a drawn out COIN situation, nor a source for how the civilian>combatant process works.

[PoisonBill]

Seriously, if a civi is stoning you just shoot him in the brains

[Murphy]

Sure they have rocks and it's all fun and games until someone brings a Mossberg to the party. If you're squad isn't near enough to support you the death is well deserved.