[100p] Rallypoints

[BloodyDeed]

As this seems to be a very big topic in regards of gameplay I think it deserves its own thread.

Please feel free to discuss the rallypoint changes that were introduced in DB's changes or todays 100p test.
To make it easier to talk about I will list the different settings and giving them a letter:

a) Current default setup (0.97).
Reloadable rallypoints every 5 mins, stays 1min, 2 (incl leader) guys needed to set, 1 guy within 100m to destroy it.

b) dbzaos rallypoints
Reloadable rallypoints every 5mins, stays 15min, 2 (incl leader) guys needed to set, 1 guy within 100m to destroy it.

c) 100p test setup
Infinite rallypoints, stays until destroyed, 3 (incl leader) guys needed to set, 3 guys within 50m to destroy it.

We will tweak option c) in the next couple of weeks to try if it's worth giving the Rallypoint some of its old strength.

Please post feedback according to your personal experience on the 100p test server.
Do not post unrelated feedback or feedback based on your thoughts and experiences back in the old versions.
In short: please do not post if you have not been playing on the 100p test server.


We really need and appreciate any constructive input.
Cheers

[Brainlaag]

I'm totally for a), no matter how much fun the rally points used to be in the past, right now they have become an annoyance and just promote foul teamplay and zerg tactics. It wasn't fun at all to play today.

[Stealth Clobber]

Infinite needs to be taken out for sure. The whole reason rally points were reduced in strength in this way in the first place was to reduce the ability for squads to pour their troops on a flag from a small rallypoint that's sometimes hardly visible. I noticed this earlier on Black Gold when a helicopter landed Russian troops north of Hilltop. I figured they set a FOB up in the oil refinery there, so when they overran our position (constantly throwing troops at us), I checked out the complex to not find a FOB anywhere in it. Lo and behold on my way back up the hillside, their rally was sitting there.

Rally points distinguished from FOB's as mobile squad spawns (usually used for when a squad member joins in and needs to get with the squad) that last a short while are the best way, aka current .97.

[Kain888]

I have played a bit, but left because of RP so I hope I can put "few" words here.

Meh, the whole rally concept should get dropped. It was fun back in the days but now it's just annoying and promotes zerg rush over tactic.

This.

Rally Points removal was one of the best decision made back in the PR and kinda shifted the way mod is heading (teamwork oriented game ). Not sure if you guys remember but it was done to promote building FOBs and promote more tactics actions that are not give-up -> rush till they are still in the same position and other arcadish ways of playing game. At least iirc.

I mean reintroducing RP again opens possibilities to play in quite not PR quality/gamey way that is harmful to overall teamwork (of course merely in my opinion). Why should I build nicely located FOBs that are important to defend, when I can for example rush docks in Muttrah City at very beginning of round and place hidden RPs there along with other SL like in old times. There has to be 3 guys currently in range of 50m to disable it, which if placed on good spots make them almost permanent. I remember "good old PR" and placing them in water/DODs/etc, bleh.

I prefer coordinated frontlines and assaults shaped by intersquad teamwork than appearing after death on magic pile of bags and killing enemy from behind like supah spec ops.

Also taking into consideration what Rudd said, I want to point out that except few people in a team most of players play for themselves and only themselves, so for them there is no point to build FOB if they have easy RP spawn. People nowadays build fobs almost always to not walk miles not because they want to be kind to their "mates".

Not to mention that with more players there should be more focus on logistics which are underused in PR. Those pilots crashing choppers out of boredom...

For sure a) .

[Anderson29]

well i played black gold today, didnt stay for the rest of the maps.


and on a side note. i was thinking the current state of the rp was

a) Current default setup (0.97).
Reloadable rallypoints every 15 mins, stays 1min, 2 (incl leader) guys needed to set, 1 guy within 100m to destroy it.

right? or was that.95.... anyways, it needs to be 5 minutes if its not....especially since punkbuster is so f'd up right now.

anyways...with 100+player servers coming to a server near you (some day i hope)......wouldnt we (as a realistic and team-working community) want to get away from rallies all together and make transport and logistics more of an important role.....maybe so important they would need to be escorted.....if needed.

oh...and im for option (a) or no rally what-so-ever

[Mongolian_dude]

A) all the way

Tried B) and it was just too easy and a silly incentive to just keep launching ourselves at an objective. It also sidetracked much of the team from building FBs. Not to mention how our movements became tactically 'weird', like slipping behind enemy lines to place a womb to spawn off, then to attack.


I think the RPs best application is to regroup a squad after a retreat, but with the db mod, it becomes a human launchpad.


...mongol...

[Ron-Schultz]

I'm totally for a), no matter how much fun the rally points used to be in the past, right now they have become an annoyance and just promote foul teamplay and zerg tactics. It wasn't fun at all to play today.

this. rally points in combination with fobs make the transport squad nearly useless.

[Tiger1]

A or no rally points at all.

[Arnoldio]

Option A for 64 and no rallies at all for 100+.

Even with DBs changes, my squad was getting transported in an apc and the driver said, jump out and make a backup rally, and he did it too, incase we fail our attack... What the fuck. God forbid infinite with even smaller radius. No thank you, then FH2 takes the crown of realistic gameplay in BF2.

When you think about it 100p+ is what rallies ubstitute for in 64. We dont need rallies then, because there is enough people already. You actually have those additional people that would be otherwise imaginary reinforcements coming from the rally.

100p test with no rallies please?

[Moonlight]

I must say I was on the 100p server for like 5 minutes - saw a squad spawning on a hidden rally then attacking objective from some weird direction only to die and respawn back on a rally - it made me ragequit.
I don't at all miss times when the most important part was basically not killing the enemy sq - 'cause if you died you could respawn on your pile of bags - but finding the enemy's rally and destroying it making their magical reinforcements disappear.
No rallies

[feedback based on the current PR 64 build]
I'd go all the way for no rallies at all. Currently their intended use (afaik) is to help new guys join the squad, help the in-squad cohesion. Well, to tell the truth it's not needed at all - people will manage, newly-joined guys can spawn on an fob, then rally up with their new squad - using their legs not a magical teleporing/delivering device. And what if there's no spawnpoint anywhere near a squad they joined? So what? Why should a squad deep inside enemy lines - behind them even - get easy reinforcements? Rally is an easy solution(gameplay-wise). No deviation would be an easy solution. I don't want easy solutions. ;>

Apart from that - you'd say that a rally for 60s once every 10 minutes isn't much. Well - it tends to totally spoil the start of the round on some maps. Say - Kashan - all you need to make your 6-man squad rush the 3rd flag (I mean the bunker flag that is capable by the enemy once they capped the village) - is to use a logi truck. Get your SL inside and a 2nd guy - a HAT maybe - the rest will spawn on a rally once you're inside a bunker. If done fast enough you'll be there before enemy choppers get there.
[/feedback based on the current PR 64 build]

[Rudd]

I have fond memories of overruning rallypoints in the past, but it didn't seem to work last night tbh.

Maybe its the nature of the 4k maps we were playing? since there's plenty of transport, the rally seemed a step backwards or something I guess.

On a map like Shijia, I prefer firebases, if we'd played maps like Korengal on the other hand....

[Kain888]

I have fond memories of overruning rallypoints in the past, but it didn't seem to work last night tbh.

Problem with memories is that they are most of times pleasant because they are idolized and linked to the PR that was new for one. I also remember PR when I started playing it, the experience was unique and I see it as much more fun than now, but because it was new and refreshing comparing to games I had stumbled upon before AND NOT because quality of game was higher than now.

So IMO memories are not good point to base judgment on and it influence on game.

I, for example, loved Tad Sae and Ghost Train back in the days when they were in normal build. I have memories of these maps as excellent and giving so much fun. That's why I was looking forward to playing them again when Map Pack was released. To my surprise they are not only bad (in terms of "old" bad not bad designed - with all respect to mappers), but not fun at all. :O

So yeh, sentiments should be kept in diary IMO.

[Arnoldio]

When giving feedback, you should be as objective as possible. Anything that includes, in the past, in the old times or i remember it was, renders it invalid. I could say, oh please give me those 0.X days, it was so good. No, i want those days now with a game that is improved.

[SGT.Ice]

I'm strongly for no rallies. In terms of both fun & reality, having guys appear out of no where in a city because of magic bags to fight instead of having to walk, ride or fly to the fight is a bit of a deal breaker some days. Rallys points are nice, but they at times take away from the job of some of our best assets/people thus neglect their duties.

[Acemantura]

B) 15 minutes is absolutely awesome. It gives me enough leeway as a squad leader to put pressure on the enemy while reinforcements arrive and fill in the fobs and supplies to establish a new front.

I think 15 minutes is perfect to sustain action, but RPs should not be reloadable on the fly (if you are alive for a few minutes) and should definitely take ammo or health from crates to simulate the logistical strain on the FOB, thus making supply trains necessary. Something for Trans and Trucks to do while they are waiting for their team to win the game.

And rally points themselves should have the ammo value of at least 1 ammo bag per squad member, with a maximum ammunition value of 4 ammo bags. An actual rally point.

As for overrunning, I am on the fence. I think that the rally should not be spawnable with at least 1 enemy within 100m, but should be overrun (destroyed) if there are two or more enemies. But if it stayed the way it is, it would be alright as well.

[RedAlertSF]

I think Acemantura pretty much has it right. B is the best option, but make RP reloadable only by standing next to FOB or supply crate and remove the time system.

[Brainlaag]

Ace, on the 64+ server the dynamic is much more different, don't base your facts off 64 experience.

[Spook]

A) !!

What are you guys planning to do? Change the mod to Call of Reality? Why would I want to be in action right after i died? I want to spawn far away from the frontline, plan a new route to attack the enemy and find some transport. Thats what PR is all about. And if a single guys is dead dead and needs to rally up with his squad, the SQDL can just place the usual 30 Sec Rally Point. Why would you even want to change this ingenius system?

The present system is the best you can get. Making rally?s more powerful will destroy the game. Or would you guys like PR if the gameplay would consist only of Killing, Dying, Spawning and Killing again? Once again, I want to play PR. And one of the best things in PR is the fact that the gameplay is really slow compared to other FPS Shooters. I do not see any advantages in putting people to the frontline faster!

[Psyrus]

Making rally?s more powerful will destroy the game. Or would you guys like PR if the gameplay would consist only of Killing, Dying, Spawning and Killing again?

Just as an FYI, we played with perma rallies that you had to knife/physically overrun to destroy, for a good year or two [0.5->0.85?], and it didn't destroy the game. We had lots of fun and the mod grew to where it is today.

That being said, it would be a minor step back teamplay & gameplay wise to reintroduce long term rallies, in my opinion.