The Pistol

Bodybag2224 · Post by **Bodybag2224** » 2006-12-12 23:20

I really believe that in terms of reality all kits should include a pistol. I looked into it and I read that the M9 or M11 is the US issued sidearm (M9 actually, but the M11 is used to a lesser extent). When you find yourself low on ammo your not as worried if you know you have a reliable pistol to fall back onto. Most military servicemen have a pistol to defend themself if a gun jam or such. Plus if your out of ammo now you just have a knife, not too good if your falling back to get some ammo and you meet an enemy.

Here is what I read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_Pistol

And here is some info on what the US service men use now, and what is Out of Service.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_in ... med_Forces

Post by **Fullforce** » 2006-12-12 23:21

Servicemen use it, yes, but it is not issued as standard to all soldiers.

Post by **Mongolian_dude** » 2006-12-12 23:23

Pistols are Too good i feel. They should be less accurate and have more recoil.
Let some Real soldiers tell us how it is. personaly, i belive i shouldnt be able that easy to aim.

...mongol...

Post by **duckhunt** » 2006-12-12 23:31

The browning 9mm pistol (ive fired it quite a few times) is effective up to 30 metres, very accurate and due to the size yes its quite easy to aim. They just need to do more damage thats all.

However, trained with it yes but would not be issued to the large majority of soldiers. Only officers or 'specialists'

WNxKenwayy · Post by **WNxKenwayy** » 2006-12-12 23:43

yuuuuuuup. Only our PL and PSG had them.

Bodybag2224 · Post by **Bodybag2224** » 2006-12-13 00:04

It's just annoying when I run out of ammo after my team has been gunned down and I must retreat with a knife and sometimes a grenade or two. I'm wasn't asking for god like pistols but something to defend yourself when your in that retreat mode. Just another idea to suggest, better then suggesting fast ro..... I mean string.

.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever · Post by **.:iGi:. Eggenberg4Ever** » 2006-12-13 00:06

Pistols are sweet to fire but only truly effective within the aforementioned range of 25-35 metres.

Howzabout a lazer-dot for the Spec Ops P226N?
No?
Oh go on...... I'll make you a cup of tea if you do.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-12-13 01:56

Bodybag2224 wrote:I really believe that in terms of reality all kits should include a pistol.

It has been repeatedly stated that all classes will not be equipped with sidearms in Project Reality because, as has also been repeatedly stated, not all soldiers or Marines are equipped with sidearms.

Military police (including criminal investigations personnel), security forces, crew-served weapon gunners (medium machineguns, mortars, man-portable rocket launchers/recoilless rifles/ATGMs), tankers, aviators/aircrew, Navy VBSS teams (manned by trained personnel from each ship), snipers and certain combat arms officers and NCOs carry sidearms as well as special operations forces. Most troops will never even qualify with the pistol.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2006-12-13 03:20

That seems strange. Of course I do believe you guys, but does anybody know what the reasoning is? Just a cost/benefit issue? Because it does seem you'd want a backup in case your M16 jams.

Bodybag2224 · Post by **Bodybag2224** » 2006-12-13 04:02

JP*wasteland.soldier wrote:That seems strange. Of course I do believe you guys, but does anybody know what the reasoning is? Just a cost/benefit issue? Because it does seem you'd want a backup in case your M16 jams.

Thats what I was thinking. I mean not everyone has one, but in these battles your not sending the entire army, and your sending the USMC, can someone find out what the standard secondary side-arm is for the USMC?

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-12-13 06:19

Bodybag2224 wrote:Thats what I was thinking. I mean not everyone has one, but in these battles your not sending the entire army, and your sending the USMC, can someone find out what the standard secondary side-arm is for the USMC?

Same as the Army- the M9.

As for why only certain troops are issued sidearms, I would say part of it is cost / logistical based on the roles of the troops who are issued them, and I think another part is tradition. In the OLD, old days pistols were one way to identify an officer or cavalry (or other specialist troops) on the battlefield because they were often issued them instead of rifles; the pistols could be used from horseback and were a complement to the sword/saber, which in addition to being used for close combat was a tool for signalling orders. Some historians hold that officers were issued sidearms to use on deserters rather than the enemy.

Think of the ancient spear vs. sword distinction; spears were the weapons of the common infantryman across cultures and continents, with daggers or short swords as their secondary weapons. The longer swords were used by the officers and the cavalry, the military elite of the time. Now the rifle is like the spear (and when bayonets are fixed that isn't a figure of speach) and the pistol is like the long sword, in that it is a mark of distinction in addition to being a weapon.

Mr_B.A.Baracus · Post by **Mr_B.A.Baracus** » 2006-12-13 08:41

Bodybag2224 wrote:It's just annoying when I run out of ammo after my team has been gunned down and I must retreat with a knife and sometimes a grenade or two. I'm wasn't asking for god like pistols but something to defend yourself when your in that retreat mode. Just another idea to suggest, better then suggesting fast ro..... I mean string.

You must either be really good, or really ****! I am yet to run out of ammo for an assault rifle in PR 0.4. I'd say you either shoot too much or don't die enough!

zerocoolness · Post by **zerocoolness** » 2006-12-13 08:47

running out of ammo eh... well thats why god..i mean eggman invented the assault class that has ammo bags... ^_^

Darkpowder · Post by **Darkpowder** » 2006-12-13 11:34

one of the reasons i like the heavy AT kit is becuase of the pistol issued, very useful at close range, and not too noisy. Very good for construction site infantry clearing at close range

earlier poster is right, the correct kits imo already have pistols.

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-12-13 18:53

I like not having a pistol on all classes becuae it encourages, in general, more tactical behaviour e.g move to cover, supress, move to cover, RELODE.
Otherwise, having a side arm, acts as a temptation to "rambo", becuase you can run around knwoing that if and when you run finish your assult rifle mag you can switch instantly to the pistol and continuing killing. Rather than take time to find cover, relode and then move up.

RazersEdge · Post by **RazersEdge** » 2006-12-13 19:01

We already see enough rambos who run out with the support gun into an enemy fireteam haha

Bodybag2224 · Post by **Bodybag2224** » 2006-12-13 19:47

Well then how about the support kit getting a pistol. I mean that thing runs out of ammo pretty quickly?

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-12-13 19:54

nO how about just giving him another mag!

Maistros · Post by **Maistros** » 2006-12-13 19:58

In my opinion the special forces pistol should have a working light if it's going to have the light. It bugs me everytime I pull it out that I can't turn that light on. I want to blind the enemy as I shoot them.

My two suggestions for this.
If at close range the pistol's light is aimed at a person it could give a shorter version of the flashbang effect, or some sort of dulled down version. Something to impair their vision for the time that it's aimed at them (accurately) because in real life if a tactical light is aimed at your eyes (Even in daylight) it will cause you to squint or look away. Especially at night, you might as well be staring at the sun.

My second suggestion would be to add a laser sight. Not just an overlay on the first person view but one that shows up for everyone when that person has it switched on. That way, it's on the model in front of you not just on your target screen when you right click.

My other big gripe is that the pistol comes up directly in front of the screen and is so hard to see anything around it. In real life, most trained professionals will not use the forward sights.. they use split vision aiming. It's the act of bringing the weapon up into your forward vision and focusing on the target down range. It will cause you to see 'two pistols" in your foreground focus and you should put the target directly between them.

What I would suggest is to (Maybe for special forces only) have the pistol view be lowered a bit and use the laser target... or you could just leave it the same but I would suggest giving it more view area to see what's in front of the gun somehow.

dunkellic · Post by **dunkellic** » 2006-12-13 21:37

here come my two cents

:

first of all, change the mec pistol sights, its quite "difficult" to exactly aim with this thing because the pistol is held somewhat strange - unlike with the chinese and usmc pistol, where the sights work perfectly.
now, i dont know about the standart load-out for marines and stuff - at least exactly - but as far as i know the m9 is the standart sidearm that everyone carrys, those with rifles and those without (later are somwhat rare these days

)

@top:

i dont think people would go rambo because they suddenly got a pistol...i mean its still a pistol (=weak). but of course, it would be a last resort if you dont have time to reload or you´re just out of ammo.
your fear, that people wont reload and just insta-change their weapon, i dont think it is going to happen.
for one, taking out a rifle takes some time (kinda like beeing surpirsed with a medikit in your hand and trying to switch to your rifle, most times you die) and even if the player manages to pull it out before he´s shot, he is still at a disadvantage compared to the other player