Feedback on deviation

[SIDEKILL3R]

Weapon deviation, yes I would love to see the 0.98 weapon deviation returned to 1.0. Why? Well because the new deviation just don't feel right to me IMO. Firefights just don't feel the same anymore to be honest. I see firefights now in 1.0 lasting only a few minutes. While playing Insurgency it just bugs me sometimes while playing on both sides. Hear me out before you go bashing this or saying "it's fine how it is" or etc. Back in 0.98 I had great and lasting memories when engaging the enemy target. Man firefights lasted over 5-10 minutes or longer. Nobody was super accurate just like real life. In real life I have seen many videos on YouTube of forces engaged in a firefight that lasted two to three hours or more. Now I'm not saying Project Reality should last that long but in the previous version of the mod it last a great deal of time in some instances and every moment was always enjoyable. You really felt like a soldier in battle. While playing the famous game mode insurgency. It felt good not saying anything was perfect but it was enjoyable to those who enjoy playing on both sides The bluefor troops were lethal but not as super dangerous as they are now. If you're playing as the Taliban militant or Iraqi insurgent life can be hell on 1.0. Back in 0.98 firefight could last a great deal of time because the deviation wasn't as accurate as it is today. In Most famous map Muttrah City in 0.98 firefights in the T-buildings were just EPIC!!! Squads could be battling it out back then depending on if you had a good medic.

So my point is weapon deviation was better in my opinion on pervious versions than now and I wouldn't mine a patch returning it to that standard it made firefights much enjoyable IMO and slowed down gameplay a bit which is a good thing. Not saying I don't like 1.0 weapon deviation but it feels so fast pace now so 0.98 deviation with all the features of 1.0 is a win win for me.



If you have spare time I want you to go on YouTube or Tales from the front section in the forums and look up previous versions of the mod with 0.98 or even before that and compare the firefights with 1.0 and look and focus on how it played out. IMO it was much slower paced and enjoyable between the past versions and today version

[Pronck]

I would rather see something in between where you could have proper CQB fighting like now but still the "old-school" long range fighting we saw in the pre 1.0 releases. So 1.0 like accurate weapons up to 100-200 meters (in-game) and .98 like accurate weapons on further ranges.

[L4gi]

Fixing the 1 hit kill **** would be a nice first step.

[Nate.]

I watched some old videos lately - headshots were actually something special back then.

Deviation for normal weapons does not matter anymore. At all. Tell me what you want, but everybody just starts shooting without giving a fuck about deviation and is pretty much at the perfect accuracy level right-away.

[Cassius]

I would rather see PR migrat to a more modern engine where the concept can be fully realized. But yeah I see what you are getting at. In earlier versions squadleaders were leading their squad in such a way that they took into account that they might have to fire off more than a couple shots.

Also it encouraged calling mortars cas and armor.

[IWI-GALIL.556FA]

I would like to see the deviation remain the same on iron sighted weapons and scoped weapon deviations back to .98 if that's possible. That would make for good CQB and make firefights better on INS and AAS map versions IMO. Not sure if that can be done though.

[Arab]

Deviation is perfect, in my opinion. The deviation bugs are fixed, and different hits to different bodies hit accurately, and you can shoot the gunner off easily. I would not like to see a somewhat 0.98 deviation going back in. The mod is practically a balance between gameplay and realism, with it more leaning towards realism.

[Wheres_my_chili]

I like this suggestion, pr has been reminding me of cod lately.

[Psyrus]

[ Version | Change | Community response]

0.7 - Deviation added "WTFISTHISSHIT"]
0.75 - Deviation increased a bit for long distances but still tight-ish for CQB "There could be more deviation overall"
0.8 - Deviation increased wildly across the board "OMFG MOD RUINED//This is the best change ever"
0.85 - Deviation brought back down to sane levels "Nice changes!"
0.9 to 0.97 - No major changes "The CQB deviation is too high, I shouldn't have to wait XX time to get a decent body shot @ X meters"
1.0 - Deviation overhauled again, made to be much more accurate overall "Too little deviation!"

Basically it's impossible to please everyone, and K_Rivers did a fantastic job overhauling the system for the 1.0 release.

There are still things that personally bother me (the recoil on the AK series weapons is ridiculously high compared to the Blufor weapons whereby it's non existent), but essentially each person has a different idea of what it should be

[Jamaican]

I like this suggestion, pr has been reminding me of cod lately.

i think that too, seems more arcadey now. i prefer the older deviation. want pr to slow down a bit.

[ChallengerCC]

I am totally with this guys here! I personally dont like the short time to get accurate at all!
It might be more "realistic", but is every soldier a elite fighter with ultra fast skills?
It destroys teamwork (e.g. covering fire) and slow movement behavior, its a matter of fact. People are forced to run around because its the only way to life longer. Who stays dies.

And thats one of the 2 main reasons why i personally dont play PR any more so often. Its to action oriented and attack focust with no "fear" of dieing (everywhere spawnpoints and to fast spawns).

With "short time to get accurate" i dont mean recoil !
The recoil is overall good, but some weapons need to get a increased recoil, because of balancing and logical reasons.

For example a AK74 has a smaler bullet and less gunpowder (power) then a M16. So why kicks a m16 or a C7 so mutch less then a AK74, for me it makes no sense. And a Tavor has no recoil at all, its a joke with 1.0. A energy laser weapon.
For me 0.85 had a good balance.

[Careless]

Psyrus;1985021'][ Version | Change | Community response]

0.7 - Deviation added "WTFISTHISSHIT"]
0.75 - Deviation increased a bit for long distances but still tight-ish for CQB "There could be more deviation overall"
0.8 - Deviation increased wildly across the board "OMFG MOD RUINED//This is the best change ever"
0.85 - Deviation brought back down to sane levels "Nice changes!"
0.9 to 0.97 - No major changes "The CQB deviation is too high, I shouldn't have to wait XX time to get a decent body shot @ X meters"
1.0 - Deviation overhauled again, made to be much more accurate overall "Too little deviation!"

Basically it's impossible to please everyone, and K_Rivers did a fantastic job overhauling the system for the 1.0 release.

There are still things that personally bother me (the recoil on the AK series weapons is ridiculously high compared to the Blufor weapons whereby it's non existent), but essentially each person has a different idea of what it should be

So true.

There's always one person who mentions the "problems" (read: his personal problems).

It's good now.
I'm still having problems with close quarter combat. You empty a whole magazine on a guy 10 meters away from you and none of the bullets hit.

Marksman kits are also pretty hard to shoot. What I can hit with a carbine from 300 meters I can't hit with an SVD or any marksman, even after letting it settle for 10 seconds while aiming on a guy that standing in the middle of a flat desert.

On the other hand it's not as frustrating anymore as it was in the past

Go try out shooting in real life.
Standard soldiers have be able to hit 70% of the targets (source; one of my friend's brother in Belgian army)


If your complaint comes from bad experience in INS as OPFOR, than that is your problem tbh. You have to know how to play as an insurgent, 90% of the people play as insurgents as if they're a conventional force.

[Spec]

Please use more descriptive thread titles. Thanks for your feedback, although as has been said, there's no perfect deviation that's realistic in close combat and at far range. I'd personally prefer slowing down the gameplay in different ways, because deviation right now appears to be rather good.

[Prevtzer]

This is how I'd make it:

Increase weapon deviation settle time - This way people will think about engaging an enemy instead of just opening fire.

Decrease recoil - When I walk 20m behind an enemy and pour half a mag into his back he has 50% chance of survival because the recoil makes the gun dance all over the place.

Decrease movement speed - Slower gameplay, people will think more instead of just running around.

Increase AR deviation - I believe AR's were very OP in the previous versions because the 'deployed' deviation was way too low and they were basically snipers. I've never suppressed an enemy because why bother, as soon as they pop out I can just kill them.

Decrease marksman deviation - Deployed mode isn't nearly as good as it should be.

[Mineral]

While most feedback here seems reasonable and well-thought off, how do some of you expect to do anything with feedback like ' its arcade'? Have you played arcade FPS lately? Compare to PR and then think again.

That said I'm with psyrus on this. I had the pleasure of testing [R-DEV]K_Rivers his deviation/recoil work before it went into the testbuilds and I was absolutely in love with it, and still am. Others might not, it's hard to please the entire community. Although from what I can tell most people of the Team and of the player community are on board with the current settings.

Although some tweaking is obviously always welcome and required in future updates.

[Spook]

This is how I'd make it:

Increase weapon deviation settle time - This way people will think about engaging an enemy instead of just opening fire.

Decrease recoil - When I walk 20m behind an enemy and pour half a mag into his back he has 50% chance of survival because the recoil makes the gun dance all over the place.

Decrease movement speed - Slower gameplay, people will think more instead of just running around.

Increase AR deviation - I believe AR's were very OP in the previous versions because the 'deployed' deviation was way too low and they were basically snipers. I've never suppressed an enemy because why bother, as soon as they pop out I can just kill them.

Decrease marksman deviation - Deployed mode isn't nearly as good as it should be.

You do realize thats exactly how 0.85 was right?

Good old times.

[Prevtzer]

You do realize thats exactly how 0.85 was right?

Good old times.

Didn't play back then, but it sounds pretty good to me. No idea what the complaints were.

[fatalsushi83]

Marksman kits are also pretty hard to shoot. What I can hit with a carbine from 300 meters I can't hit with an SVD or any marksman, even after letting it settle for 10 seconds while aiming on a guy that standing in the middle of a flat desert.

I completely agree here. I hope the marksman rifles get improved. And yeah, the recoil for the AK-47/74 is overdone. Makes you feel so vulnerable even in close quarters. Think the 74U is very usable though.

[waldov]

Personally i have welcomed the new 1.0 deviation, but i see what you mean about the shorter firefights. The problem is that IRL when people are trying to kill you, you don't simply take aim and drop them like you can as of 1.0. Ideally I think your accuracy should be reduced to almost .98 levels if bullets land within up to 10 meters of you to simulate the fact that accuracy rapidly deteriorates under large amounts of stress, pressure, tension etc. In this way the first initiation of battle would be very deadly (like lots of ambushes IRL where more then 50% of casualties are in the first minute) and then proceed to break down into drawn out engagements that require each team to act decisively to break the dead lock. Not sure if that would be possible though.

[fatalsushi83]

Ideally I think your accuracy should be reduced to almost .98 levels if bullets land within up to 10 meters of you to simulate the fact that accuracy rapidly deteriorates under large amounts of stress, pressure, tension etc. In this way the first initiation of battle would be very deadly (like lots of ambushes IRL where more then 50% of casualties are in the first minute) and then proceed to break down into drawn out engagements that require each team to act decisively to break the dead lock.

How about making it so that even slight suppression lowers your accuracy so that you're not guaranteed hits at med-long range? This wouldn't require overhauling all of the deviation code, just adding a "if suppressed, -2 accuracy", kind of thing, right? Getting the jump on the enemy AND suppressing fire would become even more important, and people would get the slower, more intense firefights they crave.

Anyway, great suggestion, waldov.