Just an idea that occured to me:
What if squad leaders could choose a squad type like we choose kits? For example; Assualt, Recon, Special Ops etc. Then the members of his squad would only have certain kits available to them. An assualt squad could have assualt kits, medics, support, rifflemen and the new officer kits for sl. Recon could have snipers, anti personel, medics and officers. Special Ops just SO and Officers? Maybe a support/logistics squad for engineers or demolitions (maybe these guys could have the ammo instead of riflemen)? Maybe armour squads too?
Don't know if it's possible but it seams like it might help with a few issues.
-everyone on the team couldn't rush for the limited kits
-wouldn't have loads of random SOs in squads
-would help to give squads role's and standing orders
-might help squads be more cohesive and work together
-would make joining a squad more important (so might help team play)
-would help with people stealing tanks while you repair them (sounds like you've sorted this one already though)
I'm not a military man but wouldn't it add to realism in terms of how your teams structured? Would you really get an engineer, a sniper and a special ops guy in squad together?
Might help the commander control things too if he knows what his squads are packing.
Anyway just a random thought, don't think it's come up before. Would be interested to hear any thoughts, especially from you DEV's
Anyone not in a squad could only be a rifle man!!!
PS. PRM is double boss, what BF2 should have been.
Squad Types?
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Desertfox
- Posts: 5886
- Joined: 2006-08-15 06:41
This is a great idea, not sure if you can do it though. Would be awesome to be a SL and say ok squad were doing a halo and make them all MSPF. Another idea would be where you can ONLY pick a kit once and your stuck with it. How many times in battle do you see a guy go "Hey, I dont like this gun anymore im gonna go anti-tank"
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fuzzhead
- Retired PR Developer
- Posts: 7463
- Joined: 2005-08-15 00:42
i think best to just let the players sort things out themselves....
devs attention could be brought to bear elsewhere imo.
although, it is a nice concept though. i already do this in game. i will name my squad:
'WAC INF' - standard assault/defense infantry squad.
'WAC ARMR' - tank squadron.
'WAC AIRBRN' - airbourne infantry, attached to a helo.
'WAC MECINF' - mechanised infantry, attached to an APC.
'WAC RECON' - small squad usually consisting of snipers for forward observation and taking out enemy command & control elements.
'WAC OPS' - special operations, destryoing key assets, sabotage of vehicles, infilitrating behind enemy lines, etc
if someone isnt spawning as the right kit or following the squad goals, KICK.
do the same for your squad, and your idea comes to life. no need for dev's to force it...
devs attention could be brought to bear elsewhere imo.
although, it is a nice concept though. i already do this in game. i will name my squad:
'WAC INF' - standard assault/defense infantry squad.
'WAC ARMR' - tank squadron.
'WAC AIRBRN' - airbourne infantry, attached to a helo.
'WAC MECINF' - mechanised infantry, attached to an APC.
'WAC RECON' - small squad usually consisting of snipers for forward observation and taking out enemy command & control elements.
'WAC OPS' - special operations, destryoing key assets, sabotage of vehicles, infilitrating behind enemy lines, etc
if someone isnt spawning as the right kit or following the squad goals, KICK.
do the same for your squad, and your idea comes to life. no need for dev's to force it...
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Dtrich-]X[
- Posts: 50
- Joined: 2006-12-16 00:17
RMM-
BulletMagnet578
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 2006-11-29 06:47
yes and no. I was playing a game today, 6 men the group, i was a med and 5 SO's, lets just say we didnt get alot done. As a SL i try to get more types of kits in a squad but its. (a) to hard to say some ppls names. (b) not so nice to TELL ppl what to go. then what if they are no good as that kit. Would be nice to let what kits you like to use and are good at.
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Top_Cat_AxJnAt
- Posts: 3215
- Joined: 2006-02-02 17:13
WEll last night on iGi server i had to pleed and beg and threat to kick, normal decent players to go medic.
I repeatedly asked for 2 players to go medic, 8ish times to be precise in CAPS and politely. 1 person eventualy went but did make a complaint about goign medic, then shut up.
It was the lack of respect for their SL (me) that really anoyed me, following my precise orders we managed to take a flag with utter ease and with almost no deaths. SO you would have thought they would trust their SL and follow his orders, including requests for certain ktis!!!
Although i do not used VOIP i do wonder if using it (when i get a mike) will mean players will follow orders more readily BUT at the same time i fear making a right prat out of myself by shouting at them in VOIP to go a certain kit.
The worse part is becuase the action of a few players who refuce to follow orders i find it hard to trust all players with basic tasks like SPWNING and kit selection - I THOUGHT IT WOULD be fking patronising having your SL write in CAPS with half a line of "!!!!!!!" to go a certain kit but OFTEN it is the only way to get players to go certain kits. This then brings us back to the VOIP point.....i jst dont know.
When i get VOIP up and running i will then be able to decide whether such a system (SL forced KIT selection) is needed and only then.
I repeatedly asked for 2 players to go medic, 8ish times to be precise in CAPS and politely. 1 person eventualy went but did make a complaint about goign medic, then shut up.
It was the lack of respect for their SL (me) that really anoyed me, following my precise orders we managed to take a flag with utter ease and with almost no deaths. SO you would have thought they would trust their SL and follow his orders, including requests for certain ktis!!!
Although i do not used VOIP i do wonder if using it (when i get a mike) will mean players will follow orders more readily BUT at the same time i fear making a right prat out of myself by shouting at them in VOIP to go a certain kit.
The worse part is becuase the action of a few players who refuce to follow orders i find it hard to trust all players with basic tasks like SPWNING and kit selection - I THOUGHT IT WOULD be fking patronising having your SL write in CAPS with half a line of "!!!!!!!" to go a certain kit but OFTEN it is the only way to get players to go certain kits. This then brings us back to the VOIP point.....i jst dont know.
When i get VOIP up and running i will then be able to decide whether such a system (SL forced KIT selection) is needed and only then.
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fuzzhead
- Retired PR Developer
- Posts: 7463
- Joined: 2005-08-15 00:42
yea bulletmagnet that sounds brutal.... if all my guys were specops, unless we were paradropping i would simply tell them 'look guys, if you dont spawn in as the kit i asked, your gone, its that simple, go join someone elses squad if you want to fuck around as a specops...'
and if you cannot pronounce their name because its retarded, just make a 'colorful' nickname for them.... my favorite is 'private pyle'
topcat, you are absolutely in the right for asking them to be a specific kit. if they dont want to be a certain kit or suck as that kit, its up to them to tell you about it, and you to deal with that. if they just flat out refuse, KICK THEM IMMEDIATELY, they have no respect for squad leaders and are a useless asset for your squad. if they want teamplay they will either adapt or stop playing...
this is bullshit that people 'suck' at a certain kit!!THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME GUN!!! they should alll learn to do the jobs of their squadmates, like in REAL militaries of the world. you are taught how to do the job of a support gunner, grenadier, etc in case you loose a squad member and must continue on with the mission. the basic kits EVERYONE should know how to use properly is the rifleman (ammo dispurtion, grenade posting), medic (defibs & medbag), grenadier (bunker clearing at medium ranges), support (suppresive fire), light AT (bunker busting / light vehicle engagements). These are BASIC kits, ALL members should know how to use these. If your squad members do not know how to use all these, please STOP ATTACKING. Go to your back base. And SHOW each of your squad members how these kits work. This will take a maxmimum 10 minutes of your time, and the squad members willl be forever grateful that you taught them the basics, and you will be confident in your squad members abilities. If they fuck around or mouth off, boot. Trust me, you WILL find players willing to listen, and all the idiots who dont listen are gonna feel awfully stupid when your squad is kicking *** and they dont even have a squad and are just running around like a headless chciken.
My philosophy is that its YOU, the Squad leader that controls your squads attitude. The way you play is directly telling your squad mates how they should play. If you slow it down, tkae your time, they will do likewise. If you let them walk all over you and use you as a spawn point and nothing more, then its YOUR fault for letting them do that.
Whatever you do, dont be afraid to kick people who step way out of line. In my mind, kicking a player is the equivalent of giving pushups in PR. its the only form of punishment you can do to players, so its a very effective tool in squad management. Not nearly enough squad leaders do this.
Establish direct contact (verbal or text) with any new squad members. If they dont respond within a short amount of time, KICK. If you cant communicate with your squadmate, HE IS TOTALLY USELESS. You might as well not even be in a squad and just move up with the masses if your not communicating with squadmates. Only keep the squadmates that respond to you, and that LISTEN and OBEY.
Also LISTEN to your squadmates advice, and take it into consideration when planning. Keep in mind you are the one making decisions, but sometimes asking for advice is a good thing, and rewarding for squadmates who make a good choice. This starts the seed for that squadmate to think about becoming a squad leader, and helps them think about the 'what if' scenarios while in a firefight.
and if you cannot pronounce their name because its retarded, just make a 'colorful' nickname for them.... my favorite is 'private pyle'
topcat, you are absolutely in the right for asking them to be a specific kit. if they dont want to be a certain kit or suck as that kit, its up to them to tell you about it, and you to deal with that. if they just flat out refuse, KICK THEM IMMEDIATELY, they have no respect for squad leaders and are a useless asset for your squad. if they want teamplay they will either adapt or stop playing...
this is bullshit that people 'suck' at a certain kit!!THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME GUN!!! they should alll learn to do the jobs of their squadmates, like in REAL militaries of the world. you are taught how to do the job of a support gunner, grenadier, etc in case you loose a squad member and must continue on with the mission. the basic kits EVERYONE should know how to use properly is the rifleman (ammo dispurtion, grenade posting), medic (defibs & medbag), grenadier (bunker clearing at medium ranges), support (suppresive fire), light AT (bunker busting / light vehicle engagements). These are BASIC kits, ALL members should know how to use these. If your squad members do not know how to use all these, please STOP ATTACKING. Go to your back base. And SHOW each of your squad members how these kits work. This will take a maxmimum 10 minutes of your time, and the squad members willl be forever grateful that you taught them the basics, and you will be confident in your squad members abilities. If they fuck around or mouth off, boot. Trust me, you WILL find players willing to listen, and all the idiots who dont listen are gonna feel awfully stupid when your squad is kicking *** and they dont even have a squad and are just running around like a headless chciken.
My philosophy is that its YOU, the Squad leader that controls your squads attitude. The way you play is directly telling your squad mates how they should play. If you slow it down, tkae your time, they will do likewise. If you let them walk all over you and use you as a spawn point and nothing more, then its YOUR fault for letting them do that.
Whatever you do, dont be afraid to kick people who step way out of line. In my mind, kicking a player is the equivalent of giving pushups in PR. its the only form of punishment you can do to players, so its a very effective tool in squad management. Not nearly enough squad leaders do this.
Establish direct contact (verbal or text) with any new squad members. If they dont respond within a short amount of time, KICK. If you cant communicate with your squadmate, HE IS TOTALLY USELESS. You might as well not even be in a squad and just move up with the masses if your not communicating with squadmates. Only keep the squadmates that respond to you, and that LISTEN and OBEY.
Also LISTEN to your squadmates advice, and take it into consideration when planning. Keep in mind you are the one making decisions, but sometimes asking for advice is a good thing, and rewarding for squadmates who make a good choice. This starts the seed for that squadmate to think about becoming a squad leader, and helps them think about the 'what if' scenarios while in a firefight.
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Top_Cat_AxJnAt
- Posts: 3215
- Joined: 2006-02-02 17:13
Agre with you Fuzz totaly but i did not want to kick my whole squad (had reason to) and when i did kick one, he rejoined a min later.
We got lucky, no meds but manage to take flags easily BUT if things had gotten hairy we would have failed and when they did once we struggled alot.
I do like after taking a flag or being successfull, using a retorical quesion (e.g so what did we learn today or how did we manage that(would call them "children" due to average commincation level of PR players but they already get enough sht from me in general)) and then telling why we did it (e.g TOOK OUR TIME to go round ext.).
I do this IN THE HOPE that they will learn from their successes and try adn repeat tactics that worked (genraly more of a follow the SL and look (s memebrs) confused as to why we are goign in the opposite direction to the flag and less of tactics) but hay, mabey it get through to some of em.
What i have learned is never try to explain to peeps why we lost a round becuase it just gets agreement from a couple of more clever players (if lucky) and more pissed of comment from the rest or complete and utter silence..........the dreaded silence that CO's and SLs hate/fear - are my team really humans or just farmyard animals with apossable thunbs!
On a side note, i am sure if a joined a VOIP squad, such problems would be much less but becuase i got no VOIP, i cant and only guess, the general/average standard of player is slightly less in a non Voip squad.
BUt i never liked the idea of VOIP squads becuase i feel the VOIP players should be spread out evenly amoung all squads. Example - 3 squads: 1 all VOIP squad, 2 all non VOIP squads - chance is you will have 1 highly capable squad and 2 prety rubbish ones who generaly wont DEFEND or if they do, are crushed by a sizably smaller, more organized ATtacking enemy squad. So Flag falls while VOIP squad is far away at other lfag adn then you know the story, the enemy begin blitz crieg and the flags fall one by one in quick succession....
This of course can happen with any type of squad, but the high concentration of good players together CAN HAVE (not does) AN OVERALL NEGATIVE AFFECT.
We got lucky, no meds but manage to take flags easily BUT if things had gotten hairy we would have failed and when they did once we struggled alot.
I do like after taking a flag or being successfull, using a retorical quesion (e.g so what did we learn today or how did we manage that(would call them "children" due to average commincation level of PR players but they already get enough sht from me in general)) and then telling why we did it (e.g TOOK OUR TIME to go round ext.).
I do this IN THE HOPE that they will learn from their successes and try adn repeat tactics that worked (genraly more of a follow the SL and look (s memebrs) confused as to why we are goign in the opposite direction to the flag and less of tactics) but hay, mabey it get through to some of em.
What i have learned is never try to explain to peeps why we lost a round becuase it just gets agreement from a couple of more clever players (if lucky) and more pissed of comment from the rest or complete and utter silence..........the dreaded silence that CO's and SLs hate/fear - are my team really humans or just farmyard animals with apossable thunbs!
On a side note, i am sure if a joined a VOIP squad, such problems would be much less but becuase i got no VOIP, i cant and only guess, the general/average standard of player is slightly less in a non Voip squad.
BUt i never liked the idea of VOIP squads becuase i feel the VOIP players should be spread out evenly amoung all squads. Example - 3 squads: 1 all VOIP squad, 2 all non VOIP squads - chance is you will have 1 highly capable squad and 2 prety rubbish ones who generaly wont DEFEND or if they do, are crushed by a sizably smaller, more organized ATtacking enemy squad. So Flag falls while VOIP squad is far away at other lfag adn then you know the story, the enemy begin blitz crieg and the flags fall one by one in quick succession....
This of course can happen with any type of squad, but the high concentration of good players together CAN HAVE (not does) AN OVERALL NEGATIVE AFFECT.
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BulletMagnet578
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 2006-11-29 06:47
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ArmedDrunk&Angry
- Posts: 6945
- Joined: 2006-07-14 07:10
LMAO---farmyard animals
It's all in the VIOP. The first time I had a SL who actually talked was some guy named nyquil back in nilla land and I searched servers to find this guy he was so good.
When I say good I don't mean he had a great k :d or anything he just told us what he wanted and kept the chatter up to make sure everyone was on the same page.
I agree that all the dedicated players shouldn't be in the same squad but it's nice to join WAC and not have to lead just follow orders and support your squadmates.
the Spec op problem is only for a short while longer then it will balance out a bit more I hope.
I don't understand not liking medic because he is the linchpin to a good squad.
You don't run out of ammo as often as you get wounded or killed so even a squad of all medics is workable sometimes.
Is it possible to make revives and heals worth more points to draw in the stat crazy player ?
It's all in the VIOP. The first time I had a SL who actually talked was some guy named nyquil back in nilla land and I searched servers to find this guy he was so good.
When I say good I don't mean he had a great k :d or anything he just told us what he wanted and kept the chatter up to make sure everyone was on the same page.
I agree that all the dedicated players shouldn't be in the same squad but it's nice to join WAC and not have to lead just follow orders and support your squadmates.
the Spec op problem is only for a short while longer then it will balance out a bit more I hope.
I don't understand not liking medic because he is the linchpin to a good squad.
You don't run out of ammo as often as you get wounded or killed so even a squad of all medics is workable sometimes.
Is it possible to make revives and heals worth more points to draw in the stat crazy player ?
And as the windshield melts
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
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bosco_
- Retired PR Developer
- Posts: 14620
- Joined: 2006-12-17 19:04
Me too, I still only join servers when I recognize names.ArmedDrunk&Angry wrote:LMAO---farmyard animals
It's all in the VIOP. The first time I had a SL who actually talked was some guy named nyquil back in nilla land and I searched servers to find this guy he was so good.
Plus, when nobody is willing to use VoIP, i leave immediately.
