Getting the game even more realistic

Bodybag2224 · Post by **Bodybag2224** » 2006-12-19 04:35

After playing some rounds of this fantastic, mod and loving the teamwork that has been put into this game I want to add my two cents (at this point it must be about 80 cents).
I'd like to first concentrate on the USMC. Now the troops used in the game are the USMC, the elite fighting unit operating under the United States Department of the Navy. The guns they are using are perfect and I have no complaints. However like I said in an earlier post Special Operation soldiers need to become limited. And all soldiers should carry almost the same number of mags due to the fact that they wear the same uniform. An exception would be support since their guns are belt fed. The Javelin would be a nice addition, and I know you are looking into it. The current sniper used I have forgotten but I am just going to list the current infantry sniper the M40A1. The Special Ops slot could be replaced with a CQC kit that someone had suggested or a demolitions kit. Either way they should get the M4A1 which is a three round burst weapon, and the Special Op recieves the M4.

The real part that I want to dive into is the vehicles. The one I was looking into is the AAV-7A1 Amphibious Assault Vehicle. It could replace the RIBs that are currently used, add some variety. From research I've done I haven't found any info on the Bradley being used, but many soldiers here said that they were.

Now onto aircraft the big fix that I would like to see would be to get rid of the blackhawk. Now calm down. I am proposing that we substitute the blackhawk on maps with no carrier. From what I found the USMC uses the Osprey (spinning metal death trap) and the CH-53 Sea Stallion. I'd prefer the Seas Stallion, maybe a huey to transport vehicles (if you can) like in BF Vietnam. I think to make the game even more authentic would be to put in that baby. It would produce the same armorment as the blackhawk since it comes standard with the two door mounted 50 caliber machine guns.

I would appreciate if any comments were made, more info and anymore suggestions that people would add. Info for British, PLA, MEC, and Insurgents would be nice. I just made this thread as a place to talk about small improvements, and I am not trying to rush the devs but just give them some ideas, for them to chew, spit out and chew again. Great mod and I can't wait for .41

Aljen · Post by **Aljen** » 2006-12-19 11:13

It is not possible to transport vehicles in another vehicles. It is BF2 engine limitation (like many others)

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2006-12-19 11:39

I think m4a1 is the automatic version, and m4 is the burst version.

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2006-12-19 13:32

The kiddie laser rifle is being adjusted from the rumors so Spec-op need not be limited for that reason.
The AAV seems like it would a lot slower than a RIB so that's not really a fair trade even though the AAV would have more protection from small arms fire.
They have new helos in the pipeline but I don't think there is a stallion yet.

dunkellic · Post by **dunkellic** » 2006-12-19 13:58

Bodybag2224 wrote: however like I said in an earlier post Special Operation soldiers need to become limited. And all soldiers should carry almost the same number of mags due to the fact that they wear the same uniform.

well, the recoil is going to be modified so i don´t see why we should make the spec-op kit (which as already was pointed out on the board should be named "force reconaissance") limited (kits were afaik initially limited because of balance issues)

Bodybag2224 wrote: The current sniper used I have forgotten but I am just going to list the current infantry sniper the M40A1. The Special Ops slot could be replaced with a CQC kit that someone had suggested or a demolitions kit. Either way they should get the M4A1 which is a three round burst weapon, and the Special Op recieves the M4.

afaik the standart rifle of the usmc is the m16a2, the m4, which is in fact the same rifle as the m4a1 (with a1 only saying its the first "version). all m4 can switch to full-auto - the sniper, your probably right altough i´ve read that the usmc is switching to the m40a3

Bodybag2224 wrote: The real part that I want to dive into is the vehicles. The one I was looking into is the AAV-7A1 Amphibious Assault Vehicle. It could replace the RIBs that are currently used, add some variety. From research I've done I haven't found any info on the Bradley being used, but many soldiers here said that they were.

good idea, just guess the devs dont have the ressources for that right now

Bodybag2224 wrote: Now onto aircraft the big fix that I would like to see would be to get rid of the blackhawk. Now calm down. I am proposing that we substitute the blackhawk on maps with no carrier. From what I found the USMC uses the Osprey...It would produce the same armorment as the blackhawk since it comes standard with the two door mounted 50 caliber machine guns.

afaik the osprey is still not fully in service and is shurely not seen in battlezone
btw, 50 cals are much less deadly than those vulcans on a blackhawk

KP · Post by KP » 2006-12-19 14:19

The M4 is semi/3rd burst, the M4A1 is fully automatic.

The US forces in-game are to be portrayed as the entire US military, hence, the A-10, M24, etc. Therefore, there shouldn't necessarily be an M40A1 (the USMC is currently switching to the M40A3), although I'd love to see it get into the game! The BH should stay as well, though it needs adjustments to speed etc. so that it's not the death trap it is now.

I agree that the Spec Ops should be limited, as they are, after all, Special Operations forces, which there aren't too many of on your average battlefield. And they still need to be more specialized, because, as of now, they are just a super-rifleman. So, as I've suggested before, give them suppressed weapons (suppressor for the P226, an MP5 SD, an M4A1 SOPMOD), possibly take away their tracers, making them harder to locate, so that they will be the silent killers they are meant to be.

Cheers!

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2006-12-19 14:44

I agree, the spec ops at the moment is just another rifleman
But I strogly disagree that the Spec Ops class should be designed as an infiltration unit or be a limited kit.
Imo he should be an integrated special operative in an infantry unit - lone wolfing in PRM should be suicide at all times
Specialising in CQC because of better training, superior marksmanship and reflex shooting, he should be given a fully automatic suppressed weapon with specialist CQC weapons - flashbangs, teargas or similar.
Nothing more.
The combat engineer should lose the magic wrench and become an explosives specialist

Aljen · Post by **Aljen** » 2006-12-19 14:49

KP wrote:And they still need to be more specialized, because, as of now, they are just a super-rifleman. So, as I've suggested before, give them suppressed weapons (suppressor for the P226, an MP5 SD, an M4A1 SOPMOD), possibly take away their tracers, making them harder to locate, so that they will be the silent killers they are meant to be.

I would also like to see specops as some stealthy "behind-the enemy line" operation specialist. Or make him a superior CQC combatant. But then make this kit "limited".

Guerra norte · Post by **Guerra norte** » 2006-12-19 14:51

Awww man

I'm so damn tierd of this....People, the game is NOT going to get any more realistic by adding all the fancy weapons, vehicles, planes and so on.
The MOD is in serious need of tweaking the gameplay, not adding weapons and etc.

Please can't just somebody agree with me on this? I was really hoping this would evolve in to a really neat realism mod, but it appears it's going the wrong way:/
Now I'm not saying that the DEV's are not doing an excelent job, but people seem to think that by adding all the things armies use in the real world, the game is going to become somehow more realistic, IT'S NOT GOING TO!
How about we instead start and REMOVING things which aren't realistic?
And then maybe later on we can start adding less important stuff after the gameplay's been tweaked.

KP · Post by KP » 2006-12-19 14:57

$kelet0r wrote:I agree, the spec ops at the moment is just another rifleman
But I strogly disagree that the Spec Ops class should be designed as an infiltration unit or be a limited kit.
Imo he should be an integrated special operative in an infantry unit - lone wolfing in PRM should be suicide at all times
Specialising in CQC because of better training, superior marksmanship and reflex shooting, he should be given a fully automatic suppressed weapon with specialist CQC weapons - flashbangs, teargas or similar.
Nothing more.
The combat engineer should lose the magic wrench and become an explosives specialist

Well, if you ask me, giving the Spec Ops guy all these wonderful toys will make him very popular. Your suggestion is good, but we should still limit the kit. Just let there be more than two on a 32/64-player map. Six or eight, maybe.

Then again, the role of the Spec Ops would vary depending on the map. In urban maps, he could be the CQC man, but in woodland, he could be the infiltration expert.

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2006-12-19 14:57

Guerra norte wrote:Awww man I'm so damn tierd of this....People, the game is NOT going to get any more realistic by adding all the fancy weapons, vehicles, planes and so on.
The MOD is in serious need of tweaking the gameplay, not adding weapons and etc.

Please can't just somebody agree with me on this? I was really hoping this would evolve in to a really neat realism mod, but it appears it's going the wrong way:/
Now I'm not saying that the DEV's are not doing an excelent job, but people seem to think that by adding all the things armies use in the real world, the game is going become somehow more realistic, IT'S NOT GOING TO!
How about we instead start and REMOVING things which aren't realistic?
And then maybe later on we can start adding less important stuff after the gameplay's been tweaked.

I totally agree - less is more, quality over quantity etc.
I love simple solutions to all problems so it drives me bats when people say can we have this and this like a greedy child in a toy store. PRM has all the basic components necessary, adding more is a luxury rather than a necessity

KP · Post by KP » 2006-12-19 15:00

Guerra norte wrote:Awww man I'm so damn tierd of this....People, the game is NOT going to get any more realistic by adding all the fancy weapons, vehicles, planes and so on.
The MOD is in serious need of tweaking the gameplay, not adding weapons and etc.

Please can't just somebody agree with me on this? I was really hoping this would evolve in to a really neat realism mod, but it appears it's going the wrong way:/
Now I'm not saying that the DEV's are not doing an excelent job, but people seem to think that by adding all the things armies use in the real world, the game is going become somehow more realistic, IT'S NOT GOING TO!
How about we instead start and REMOVING things which aren't realistic?
And then maybe later on we can start adding less important stuff after the gameplay's been tweaked.

Agreed! These are just suggestions for later on. Because right now, the way I see it, the Spec Ops doesn't really have a role like the medic, rifleman, sniper etc. does.

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2006-12-19 15:05

KP wrote:Well, if you ask me, giving the Spec Ops guy all these wonderful toys will make him very popular. Your suggestion is good, but we should still limit the kit. Just let there be more than two on a 32/64-player map. Six or eight, maybe.

Then again, the role of the Spec Ops would vary depending on the map. In urban maps, he could be the CQC man, but in woodland, he could be the infiltration expert.

in a well balanced team there won't be more than 32/7 c= 5 which is hardly excessive - just look at the MEC or PLA at the mo. You seem to be forgetting that the M4 will be FIXED in the next download. And the problem with having an infiltration unit is
1 - it creates lone wolfing
2 - infiltration is rather pointless ingame (this isn't a spy game)
3 - varying the role of a soldier depending on the map is ridiculous

The thing is the spec ops at the moment is a mix of CQC rifleman, explosives expert and pilot. Ideally the engineer becomes the explosives expert, the pilot is the only class with a parachute and the spec ops becomes more focused on short range combat leaving the riflemen to fill the medium range and the snipers to fill long range.

KP · Post by KP » 2006-12-19 15:15

Infiltration with the intent to blow stuff up is actually rather useful, if your team could get points for it (is that possible, Devs?). And I know the M4 will be fixed (really looking forward to getting killed by something other than the M4).

The role of a soldier will vary slightly depending on the map anyway. The sniper, for example. In a woodland map, he's a sniper, all alone or with the support of someone else, taking out targets from afar. In urban maps, he's the designated marksman, working with a squad, taking out targets that are out of reach for ordinary soldiers, but from much shorter ranges than a sniper.

But I agree, if you make him the CQC expert, it would be good. As I said, he doesn't have a specific role at the moment. But toss in suppressors. Please!

{XG} non_compliance · Post by **{XG} non_compliance** » 2006-12-19 16:31

I agree.. remember the spec ops from Desert Combat? That little car-32 or whatever it was kicked some serious ***. I loved the fact that it was silenced too.

KP · Post by KP » 2006-12-19 16:33

I haven't played DC in a looong time, so I dont remember it... You sure it wasn't called CAR-15?

Mekstizzle · Post by **Mekstizzle** » 2006-12-19 17:05

Guerra norte wrote:Awww man I'm so damn tierd of this....People, the game is NOT going to get any more realistic by adding all the fancy weapons, vehicles, planes and so on.
The MOD is in serious need of tweaking the gameplay, not adding weapons and etc.

Please can't just somebody agree with me on this? I was really hoping this would evolve in to a really neat realism mod, but it appears it's going the wrong way:/
Now I'm not saying that the DEV's are not doing an excelent job, but people seem to think that by adding all the things armies use in the real world, the game is going become somehow more realistic, IT'S NOT GOING TO!
How about we instead start and REMOVING things which aren't realistic?
And then maybe later on we can start adding less important stuff after the gameplay's been tweaked.

I agree, the mod seems to be going a little way off. More content seems to be what they're going after instead of realism. They should just make what they have realistic first. I've always thought this mod was a BF2 realism mod. Therefore all it should be is BF2, but realistic. BF2 has an LAV-25 APC, not some random M138209523-213429-53 Bradley MkIVII APC. Just make it realistic. It's getting ridiculous. No offence but I feel too much resources is going towards new content and maps (amount of new maps is ridiculous) instead of actual realism. This may all change.

Of course, it's your mod. Do what you want with it.

dunkellic · Post by **dunkellic** » 2006-12-19 17:07

KP wrote:The M4 is semi/3rd burst, the M4A1 is fully automatic.

ups, you are right ^^

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2006-12-19 18:16

I want new maps. The vanilla maps I haev been creeping and peeping,shooting and scooting on for over a year and they are OLD.
More content means more players which means more good players who take advantage of all the realism tweaks.
But it's a game and many people don't have the time or inclination to play super hardcore realism games which cuts the player base.
I think they have a good balance of new content and hardcore realism.
DICE and EA (**spits on the names**) in their "wisdom" have limited much of the realism by hardcoding so we must work with what the PR gods give us.
**hint hint ** Javelin

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-12-19 21:34

Bodybag, you're essentially condensing several ongoing topics into another thread. Pease just post in those threads next time. And you're not giving us any new information, here; please do a search.

dunkellic wrote:well, the recoil is going to be modified so i don´t see why we should make the spec-op kit (which as already was pointed out on the board should be named "force reconaissance") l

Right now the US special ops kit is called "MSPF," which stands for "Maritime Special Purpose Force." This is an element within a Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) that is made up of its reconnaissance/surveillance and direct-action assets, supported by a one of the MEUs rifle companies. Among these R/S and DA assetts are an attached Force Reconnaissance Direct Action platoon and sometimes also a Navy SEAL Platoon. The player can pretend he is whichever he likes.

Also, 1st and 2nd Force Recon Companies have deactivated, with their platoons being divided into the 1st and 2nd Marine Special Operations Battalions and into the 1st and 2nd Reconnaissance Battalions (aka Division Recon).

dunkellic wrote:afaik the osprey is still not fully in service and is shurely not seen in battlezone
btw, 50 cals are much less deadly than those vulcans on a blackhawk

The first operational USMC Osprey squadron, the Thunderchickens (not making that name up), are due to stand up early next year.

And those are not Vulcans, those are M134 (Army)/GAU-2 (USAF)/GAU-17 (USN/USMC) rotary machineguns or "miniguns." Vulcans are 20mm cannons from which the operating mechanism for the M134 was derived.