Reinforcements & Spawning

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purehybrid
Posts: 4
Joined: 2006-12-29 04:47

Reinforcements & Spawning

Post by purehybrid »

First of all, I love PR... It has fixed almost all the stuff I didn't like in vBF2, and added a really unique and enjoyable atmosphere. There is one game-breaker left, that I can guarantee is really affecting the growth of your playerbase as a whole.

Currently, whenever you spawn, whether it is at a control point, or your squad leader, you often spawn standing up in the middle of open ground. This often results in taking fire immediately, and dying before you can even go prone. Let's face it... It really isn't very realistic to 'reinforce' your army right next to an enemy APC. It also isnt very realistic to see teammates 'drop in' from about 2 feet off the ground from thin air :lol:

Many solutions have been thrown up for this in the past. Things like limited spawn invulnerability resulting in realism problems or 'smart' spawning that would require far too much time from mappers/programmers.

My solution is two-fold:
1) For the first 4 seconds you after spawning, you are invisible/invulnerable, and your speed is increased by ~50%, however
2) For the first 4 seconds you after spawning, you cannot use any abilities or fire any weapons or do ANYTHING but move.

The point of this, is basically to allow reinforcements, to do exactly that, reinforce. So before actually spawning, you will have 4 seconds of 'twilight' time to move yourself to some form of cover, where you will actually enter the game world again.


Pros:
1) Alleviates the annoying appear'n'drop spawning (am I the only one who this breaks immersion for?)
2) Helps (but does NOT remove) spawn camping. Again, reinforcements going to defend a position, don't reinforce in the middle of open ground, often they'd come out of a building or whatnot, rather than the same exact position that an apc can spam at waiting for ppl to spawn in. It basically puts some skill into spawn camping/controlling.
3) More realistic spawn locations, that don't require additional mapper input.

Cons:
1) Is people spawning in random locations of their choosing, really any more realistic than the set appear'n'drop positions? maybe not... but atleast it removes the annoying drop and allows the spawner a little more control :P
2) dno... you tell me :lol:


Discuss :)
Guerra norte
Posts: 1666
Joined: 2006-07-19 17:37

Post by Guerra norte »

OR! You could use your brain and spawn one CP back.
purehybrid
Posts: 4
Joined: 2006-12-29 04:47

Post by purehybrid »

1) Sometime's that is not possible, either no other CP's or the others are also under fire.
2) This change would also affect spawning on squad leader, and is not specifically to do with spawn camping, but more an atmosphere, and control factor.
3) It helps squads regroup on defense.

From my experience, it isn't the dying to spawn campers that pisses people off, it is simply the lack of control they have. Giving people a couple of seconds to orientate themselves and jump behind a wall won't stop spawn camping, but it will give people a greater sense of control.

Believe me, I worked on the most popular UT2k3 mod, and second most popular UT2k4 mod since its inception, and one of the biggest issues any Indie mod developer faces is building the playerbase. Lack of control causes frustration, which in turn causes newbies to /quit. Trust me... Newbies are good... you want to keep your Newbies... 'cos when they're enjoying themselves... they tell their friends.
Guerra norte
Posts: 1666
Joined: 2006-07-19 17:37

Post by Guerra norte »

you want to keep your Newbies
Not really, 99,9% of them are **** at teamwork and stay like that, the few who use VOIP use it so badly there's hardly any point.

Anyway back on topic.
I really don't care how the spawn system works because if it was up to me there wouldn't be any respawns in most gamemodes.
purehybrid
Posts: 4
Joined: 2006-12-29 04:47

Post by purehybrid »

I dont mean Noobs dude... I mean Newbies... people who are genuinely new to the game, and wanting to learn and improve.
Guerra norte
Posts: 1666
Joined: 2006-07-19 17:37

Post by Guerra norte »

purehybrid wrote:I dont mean Noobs dude... I mean Newbies... people who are genuinely new to the game, and wanting to learn and improve.
I know, the way I see it is the steeper the learning curve is, the better the "noob" filter.
purehybrid
Posts: 4
Joined: 2006-12-29 04:47

Post by purehybrid »

Yes, but also the less market penetration you get, so the less overall people you are "filtering" resulting in fewer good players overall, and a relatively similar noob/pro percentage.
Guerra norte
Posts: 1666
Joined: 2006-07-19 17:37

Post by Guerra norte »

BTW I just remembered, there's going to an updated version on the AAS mode
which supposedly is going to prevent spawnraping a lot more, can't really remember the detalis of it though.
JohnnyPissoff
Posts: 1358
Joined: 2006-07-26 14:06

Post by JohnnyPissoff »

Both you guys have great points. I'm certainly all for "noob filtering" via the learning curve and long spawn times, and direct spawning irritates my sense of immersion as well, not to mention being spawn raped.

If I had my way a player could only spawn at home base (one of the costs of dieing) and join a squad there. (They wouldn't be able to leave the barracks until the squad was at full strength) If he wanted to join up with his original squad he'd have to wait till the squad leader died as well. (another cost of dieing)
bosco_
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 14620
Joined: 2006-12-17 19:04

Post by bosco_ »

I would like to see a respawn system like in Red Orchestra, which means the reinforcements come in waves. There should be a wave like every 2 minutes, starting from the first CP behind the front line.

But I guess this isn't possible with BF2.
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Darkpowder
Posts: 1527
Joined: 2006-08-30 22:00

Post by Darkpowder »

This has been discussed before i recall, and the people were split between the "invulnerable" and "inaction" ideas, and the idea that you should just spawn at another CP when overrun.

Personally, i prefer to leave things exactly as they are, i don not like invulnerability even when woupled with inactive as quite frankly it just gives laserbeam M4 users more chance to line-up and just adds another degree of unreality into the game.

Spawning at another CP is..

- Tactically wise, giving your squad the controlled appraoch to an overrun CP.
- Realistic, as friendly firebases come to the support of beleagured areas, and result in more liklihood that you will be able to defend the next flag better. all too often i see games going the familiar "domino-effect" as squads tactically position themselves in advance of a main push on a poorly defended flag to cut off reinforcements or rapidly take further flags.
- Creates the "right" atmosphere in avoiding exactly the frustrating problem of defending soldiers spawning "out of thin air" when you have already "cleared" tactically an area, and while you are waiting for the flag to go grey they pop out of nowhere. Thankfully future versions will hopefully result in quicker "grey" status for flags and slower "capture" time with the need for multiple soldiers present.

A good squadleader will often tell you to respawn at a new CP anyway, for tactical purposes, and while your squad may have just been wiped or 90% killed your SL may even tell you to wait before spawning so you can all spawn together, or wait until he has spawned in a "safe" location outside the spawnpoint to he or she can tightly control the formation.
Michael_Denmark
Posts: 2196
Joined: 2006-07-10 09:07

Post by Michael_Denmark »

I.
If I had my way a player could only spawn at home base (one of the costs of dieing) and join a squad there. (They wouldn't be able to leave the barracks until the squad was at full strength) If he wanted to join up with his original squad he'd have to wait till the squad leader died as well. (another cost of dieing)

II.
I would like to see a respawn system like in Red Orchestra, which means the reinforcements come in waves. There should be a wave like every 2 minutes, starting from the first CP behind the front line.


Agree i a system like that.
Define irony. A bunch of guys playing PR year after year. A game teaching initiative as the prime mover.
However, in regard to EA, these guys never took the initiative.

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We who play these kinds of games are the first generation of war robot pilots.Today we pilot a camera in 3D heaven,Tomorrow... http://gametactic.org/pr
Clypp
Posts: 2148
Joined: 2006-07-17 18:36

Post by Clypp »

AASx2 should fix some of the spawn kill woes because you will not be able to spawn when a CP is being taken.

I would like users to spawn in special buildings or bunkers where, like in an APC, they are looking out a window so they can check that the area is clear. This can be coded as an immobile vehicle that looks like a building.
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