Ammo bags and AA kit

[SamusMaximus]

Playing a few minutes ago on Muttrah. Grabbed AA kit, got off a shot at a Huey, ran back to FOB and grabbed an ammo bag off a nearby body and the AA refilled as usual. Took damage from a mortar and got off a second shot at the Osprey.

Ran back to FOB area and started getting more ammo bags off both friendly and enemy bodies. Probably went through five or so bags, but my kit wouldn't reload. Also it seemed that the numerous patches I was getting off those bodies weren't healing me.

It was pretty chaotic so maybe I'm missing something, but I don't ever recall this happening before.

[Spook]

Ammo bag supplies were lowered to fix the exploit of being able to reload the ammo bag itself and still getting some ammo. Meant you could abuse it to get unlimited nades or LATs.

[Frontliner]

You've probably used the patch on your kit before you reloaded for a second time, meaning that your kit requires 200 points instead of 100 to fully reload. Since the game does not discriminate between what you'd most likely want to reload, both your patch and AA load are filled simultaneously - but one bag can only supply for <150 points so neither patch nor AA will reach the necessary 100 points. What's more is that the resupply points you've gained vanish once the bag disappears, so unless you drop 2 bags pretty close to each other, you're going to burn through an infinite amount of bags without ever reloading.

[sf17k]

I've had some trouble reloading stuff too, particularly AP claymores. I've never actually played AP before this patch so I can't compare to previous versions, but I've had situations where I burned through multiple bags and got nothing.

I know that standing farther away from a bag makes it last longer, and now I feel like I have to do this every single time I want to reload, but I don't understand how it works or what the right distance is so it's pretty frustrating, and it often still doesn't help.

Can't ammo bags be made more "expensive" to reload instead of lowering the ammo they give?

[Raklodder]

Spook;2104241']Ammo bag supplies were lowered to fix the exploit of being able to reload the ammo bag itself and still getting some ammo. Meant you could abuse it to get unlimited nades or LATs.

Scientists could learn a thing or two from Project Reality.

[Frontliner]

I know that standing farther away from a bag makes it last longer

This is false. The ammo bag contains a set value of points from which to reload. Distance does not alter this.

Can't ammo bags be made more "expensive" to reload instead of lowering the ammo they give?

No. Every type of consumable equipment as in grenades, magazines, AT weapons, claymores and other has a value of 100 points per weapon slot. You can only make stuff cheaper than 100 points by having more ammunition, and the value decreases based on how much ammunition you have, eg. 2 grenades = 50 points each(100/2), 3 RPGs = 34(100/3), 6 patches=17(100/6)

I've had some trouble reloading stuff too, particularly AP claymores. I've never actually played AP before this patch so I can't compare to previous versions, but I've had situations where I burned through multiple bags and got nothing.

Same issue as above: You've used 200 points for 2 claymores(since they are seperate weapon slots!) and you cannot reload either of them because the game uses up the ammo bag with it's <150 reload points on both of them at the same time, leading to both slots not reaching the necessary 100 points. And the <75 points per slot you've gained will vanish into nothingness once you stop reloading, which is why you burn ammo bag after ammo bag yet gain nothing.

[Geronimo]

How many "points" does an ammo bag currently have? (I think it was 110 points before the patch)

[Mats391]

How many "points" does an ammo bag currently have? (I think it was 110 points before the patch)

200 before, 160 now.

[sf17k]

Frontliner, thank you for clearing it up.

So before, a rifleman could throw a bag of 200 points, resupply the ammo bag with 100 of them, then resupply someone's LAT with the other 100.

Now, two riflemen can throw two ammo bags for 160 * 2 = 320 points, each resupply their ammo bag for 100 * 2 = 200, leaving 120 points for LAT.

Well, it does make it much harder to pull off, since a squad is less likely to have two riflemen who are that organized.

And if I wanted to resupply two claymores, I would have to find two ammo bags, being careful not to use either one until they're both in a pile. Then I'd have 120 points left over for another claymore, as long as I only place one before refilling. And this can only work if I haven't used anything else in my kit too much?

Perhaps fixing infinite ammo isn't worth inconveniencing everyone else, since reloading a LAT still has a time cost?

[Frontliner]

Frontliner, thank you for clearing it up.

So before, a rifleman could throw a bag of 200 points, resupply the ammo bag with 100 of them, then resupply someone's LAT with the other 100.

Hearing Mats say that it was 200 before makes me question the validity of the code or rather how the code transfers into the game. It was 200+ some time ago in 1.1 if I recall correctly, which basically enabled Rifleman to be their own Medic, patch, drop ammo bag, patch again, drop bag again.

In 1.2 and onwards the points were about 175-185, so it was not something that was exploitable with one shot LATs such as the AT-4, Pzf 3 and similar, only with those that have 2 or more rounds(which is the case with the RPG7 series, but applies to the LAW as well).

And if I wanted to resupply two claymores, I would have to find two ammo bags, being careful not to use either one until they're both in a pile. Then I'd have 120 points left over for another claymore, as long as I only place one before refilling. And this can only work if I haven't used anything else in my kit too much?

Yup, you got it. You can basically do the math for yourself if you pay attention to the maximum amount of remaining ammo, don't forget that the inserted mag counts towards the total as well, so a 5.56 Assault Rifle with a total of 9(8+1) mags requires 12 points(100/9, rounded up) for a mag, an AK47 with a total of 7 mags requires 15 points(100/7, rounded up) for one.

Perhaps infinite ammo isn't that bad, since it still costs time to reload?

Ammo bag reloading is ridiculously fast, the only time it costs you is the set up.

200 before, 160 now.

Sure it's not a typo? The ammo bag ingame translates to an accurate 150 points, I actually tested this just now: 1 grenade+ammo bag gives you back both grenade and ammo bag, and the ammo bag vanishes[which it wouldn't do if points were leftover - and no, I didn't use anything else.] which confirms it's 150 points. I also know for certain that it wasn't 200 points back in 1.2 so maybe the ammo system works with a 10 point off-set? I can't explain this otherwise.

[sf17k]

Another thing I thought of. Before, a LAT that used his patch could reload both the patch and the LAT with one bag? And now the patch + rocket would require 200 points and neither would reload?

[Frontliner]

In 1.1 that was possible because the ammo bag was set to a value above 200. I trust Mats when he says that the bag was set to 200 in 1.2 and 1.3 but I can assure you that, without a doubt, it was not possible to both reload a one shot AT and the bag from one ammo bag despite it being possible from the number in the code - which is why I believe the ammo bag to work from an off-set.

And yes, 1 bag will now do absolutely nothing. It's gonna refill your magazines though should you have used some since the bag(and all other sources of ammo) resupply every equipment slot at the same time.

[SamusMaximus]

Another thing I thought of. Before, a LAT that used his patch could reload both the patch and the LAT with one bag? And now the patch + rocket would require 200 points and neither would reload?

I guess this is the scenario I ran into. Missed that change in the patch notes, so thanks for the explanation! Makes a lot of sense now.

I understand the potential for abuse possible with the old resupply value, though I do see how this could be a real setback for a squad far afield. I've been I'm many scenarios as LAT, where an APC rolls up on a squad, damage is taken so you toss a quick patch, and that ammo from a rifleman for a 2nd shot sometimes saves the day. Guess we'll see how this works out

[sf17k]

I did a bunch of testing and posted the results in a new thread.

[Spook]

but I can assure you that, without a doubt, it was not possible to both reload a one shot AT and the bag from one ammo bag despite it being possible from the number in the code - which is why I believe the ammo bag to work from an off-set.
.

Of course it did. Thats why it was lowered. I was doing it all the time.

Procedure was:

1. Fully reloaded Rifleman drops ammo bag. Reloads new ammo bag. Old ammo bag still left with some ammo in it.
2. Rifleman AT or any other Kit goes to ammo bag and reloads until its gone. If only a LAT was missing, and patches and grenades not used yet, then LAT will be reloaded on first run. If not, then just repeat step 1 and continue reloading until you are full.

This worked with any kit aslong as the Rifleman didnt waste his patches or too much mags and was able to get his ammo bag back from the first bag. The left over bag could then be used for reload.