Spec ops ---> pointman... possible?

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-01-19 22:17

We all hate M4 whoring. That's a given. But would it be possible to do the following?....

Have M4s be a limited kit such that only one member of each squad (with a member minimum) could get spec ops? That way, you could have somebody be spec ops and they could be the pointman for the squad, taking down infantry they randomly stumble across. And then maybe give them smoke grenades but only one frag and no SLAMs (if we want to move away from them being sabateurs, and have that be more of an engineer job).

Not only would this promote teamwork, but the medics, riflemen, AT guys, DMs, etc. that were moving with the squad would be more protected, making squadwork a more attractive option for these people.

And maybe the SL could kick from the squad if you're not fulfilling your pointman duties. You would then get 10 seconds or something to get rid of your kit, before you start taking damage (you would have to have a special kit they can instantly get if they drop the normal M4 kit.... maybe like AP rifleman sans clackers).

First off, is this possible, and second, what would you guys think of this sort of thing? Then the M4 could be toned down just a bit, or give the other factions red dot scopes and have them all be fairly equal in terms of performance).

Post by **RikiRude** » 2007-01-19 22:22

This sounds like a cool idea actually.

-But, in .5 the M-4 won't be the uber weapon it is now.
-.5 Spec ops are loosing their parachutes, so you won't see people whoring the class on muttrah
-Also rifleman classes across all factions will have optics in the future.
-It WOULD be possible to make a pointman kit, but I don't think it's really necissary, usually in game you just give one of your quickst soldiers the PM position, or the guy with the saw or shotty =)

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2007-01-19 22:31

WEll if this makes you guys feel any better, If i am squad leader between the hours of 7:30pm- 10:00pm on iGi or Helix (thats when the good men turn up) and you are on the other team, FEAR NOT. For only my pointmen will have M4's!!!!!!!

And often enough, they decline this privelage for a M203

!

Side note: Any chance of a random point man awkwardness remover selecter????????

Why you aks, well in a high class squad, where the brain fluid and the testosterone or the femal version is running high, the compatition and bitterness for the place as a pointman and in my case, 2nd Squad leader and leader of Alpha fireteam can become quite serious.

As an SL, a simple machine that selected it for me, rather than gave me the burdon of choosing the "wrong" guy for the job. SO think of the SL for once, and give him a helping hand in running his squad like clockwork, awkward and resentment free!

Most of you wont understand this, but trust me, when have to elect a SINGLE MAN(2nd SL,pointman) whos wields more power in leading the squad in the short term than you, you will realise the dilemas that occur!

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-01-19 22:37

well it might take something away from the realism. Not only is it rare to see special operations soldiers fight next to normal dudes like it's now, but to have 1 spec ops soldier as a pointman for a squad of ordinary soldiers?

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2007-01-19 23:32

'[R-DEV wrote:Riki_Rude_BTYC']This sounds like a cool idea actually.

-But, in .5 the M-4 won't be the uber weapon it is now.
-.5 Spec ops are loosing their parachutes, so you won't see people whoring the class on muttrah
-Also rifleman classes across all factions will have optics in the future.
-It WOULD be possible to make a pointman kit, but I don't think it's really necissary, usually in game you just give one of your quickst soldiers the PM position, or the guy with the saw or shotty =)

I don't know if taking the parachutes away is a good idea. I mean, how are we suppose to be able to simulate HALOs now? In a sense, it wasn't ultra realistic, but at the same time, it was because the game simulates basic concepts of war and real life, so taking that away just so someone doesn't play the class as much which they will anyway is kind of senseless IMO.

Also takes away the "special forces" part of the spec ops class as well and makes the game kind of one dimensional.

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-01-20 00:32

mammikoura wrote:well it might take something away from the realism. Not only is it rare to see special operations soldiers fight next to normal dudes like it's now, but to have 1 spec ops soldier as a pointman for a squad of ordinary soldiers?

You don't have to call them a spec ops soldier.

Post by **Rhino** » 2007-01-20 00:34

The M4 has been fixed.......

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-01-20 00:43

I know. This is an alternative to "M4 fixing". It could just be nerfed a bit from what it's at now (but not down to .32 levels) and the other current specops classes made more powerful so they were all equal. And then change the name from spec ops to point, and impliment the kit limiting I suggested.

Just a thought, wanted to see what others thought of it.

tele-loe- · Post by **tele-loe-** » 2007-01-20 03:19

This is a bit offtopic, but will a stock M4 ever be introduced? Like an M4 with nothing but ironsights?

PlayPR! · Post by **PlayPR!** » 2007-01-20 03:37

tele-loe- wrote:This is a bit offtopic, but will a stock M4 ever be introduced? Like an M4 with nothing but ironsights?

I think the devs would have to make a whole new model, or they would get sued by EA for modifying there product or some **** like that. Even though it is A MOD!

tele-loe- · Post by **tele-loe-** » 2007-01-20 04:24

PlayPR! wrote:I think the devs would have to make a whole new model, or they would get sued by EA for modifying there product or some **** like that. Even though it is A MOD!

OH yeah totally, that would be excellent.

Post by **RikiRude** » 2007-01-20 04:27

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:I don't know if taking the parachutes away is a good idea. I mean, how are we suppose to be able to simulate HALOs now? In a sense, it wasn't ultra realistic, but at the same time, it was because the game simulates basic concepts of war and real life, so taking that away just so someone doesn't play the class as much which they will anyway is kind of senseless IMO.

Also takes away the "special forces" part of the spec ops class as well and makes the game kind of one dimensional.

I definatly see your point and it was discussed, but Fuzzhead said something that pretty much put anymore discussion into it to an end. Something along the lines of "parachutes are mis-used far greater then they are properly used" so we said away with the chute.

Pretty much, you can't simulate HALOs which, imo and alot of other devs, this is a very very VERY good thing.

Also we aren't taking things away to get people to stop using the class, we took it away so people would stop MIS-using the class.

Also I think you are just taking it a little too far, taking away the chute doesnt make the game one dimensional. Spec ops is still the only class to get a pistol AND a rifle, and explosives, and grenades.

If you don't think it's a good thing, then think of this. No longer will you see one or two full squads of spec ops on muttrah or jabal, jumping out, opening their chutes 3 feet off the ground, all getting mowed down, only taking out a few guys and being utterly useless because they dont have medic with them like they should.

Post by **RikiRude** » 2007-01-20 04:30

tele-loe- wrote:This is a bit offtopic, but will a stock M4 ever be introduced? Like an M4 with nothing but ironsights?

in the future we are planning on separating the USMC and the US army, the army uses M-4s. I hope this answers your question

causticbeat · Post by **causticbeat** » 2007-01-20 06:11

im glad the m4 is fixed, but that would be actually a nice way to transform rifleman if we ever wanted to create more of a reliance on ammo stock piles

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-01-20 12:08

JP*wasteland.soldier wrote:You don't have to call them a spec ops soldier.

true, but then again I don't know if it's realistic to give the pointman a different weapon load out than the rest of the squad?
It just seems (at least to me) that it's not worth the effort since m4 is probably not going to be an über ownage weapon in 0.5

Mekstizzle · Post by **Mekstizzle** » 2007-01-20 12:18

I don't think you should seperate the Army and the Marines. America is America ffs. Imo it's a waste of time. I like how you're going with it now (that is, more focus on balance and gameplay realism instead of just adding stuff in FOR NO REASON) but i don't want you guys to go back to the "new kewl brit stuff" instead of gameplay. That's my opinion anyway...it's your mod lol.

Rusty_FunP · Post by **Rusty_FunP** » 2007-01-20 14:04

I just LOVE the posts where people dont want M4 to have correct recoil & accuracy brought back.

Seriously, until the .5 brings on a improved version of the gun, there is no space for m4 exploiters in my squads. (usually one of the voip squads on iGi

)

What comes to the point man class, pretty good idea imho, it could be renamed to force recon, which does some right for the us marines instead of special ops.

Leo · Post by **Leo** » 2007-01-20 14:14

causticbeat wrote:im glad the m4 is fixed, but that would be actually a nice way to transform rifleman if we ever wanted to create more of a reliance on ammo stock piles

From what I've heard that won't be a problem. People will prefer rifleman now due to the advantage the armor brings.

noir-colombia- · Post by **noir-colombia-** » 2007-01-20 20:10

in .32 the m4 recoil was so hard that only a few ones, (including me

) was able to manage the m4 even on full auto, the slams did a great work too but i take too many to take down an apc or tank, i managed to be a good TRUELY spec ops when orders was gaven to me.

i mainly make recon, gave snipers support, take down special objectives and all the sort of an spec ops.

i didnt use the parachute,(great idea).

but i want to ask something:

1.the m4 fix is about its recoil? because the .32 recoil was perfect and all guns (except the support guns) and there wasnt m4 whores (i was the only one lol).

2.about the new vehicle damage model, it would be realistic to take down a tank first destroying his top hatch with an slam, c4 ; and next trowing a nade into it. it also could increase the teamwork (due the fact that tanks and apc, mainly tanks will gonna be in .5 harder to take down).

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-01-22 18:25

Hey, I used spec ops back then too. People never understood why. But on single shot, you can really get things done with that weapon even at high recoil.

After playing with Atlanta and dbzao a couple days ago, I've adopted their rifleman as pointman tactic (in crowded cities). Every time you approach a corner, pop a nade to clear out any stackers. Then, once you're out of nades, just drop an ammo bag. Good tactic.