Current LMG recoil vs. past versions

cablecarandsnakefight · Post by **cablecarandsnakefight** » 2007-01-20 01:29

This is not a rant for change since i'm sure the PR team has it's well thought out reasons for changing it or in any case definite ones, but more of a questioning and also a sound off, and preferrably with people who have actually fired 5,56 lmgs and 7,62:s, and not just down the local range, but who have trained and been instructed to do it short barreled and not only prone or on a spiderlike bi-pod setup, but from a standing or crouched, walking position. IE A SOLDIER

Because i'm neither a soldier nor an american, so I have no first hand experiences with firearms. All I know is that when you get that odd non-textbook but - supposedly - real life military users account on light machine guns they are clear on one point; they are very stable and easy to control, especially compared to an AR, and secondly have a more horizontal than vertical recoil, and not much of the latter either.

PR is not a simulator, and with the lmgs dominance in previous versions I can understand it needed to be balanced out a bit, or even killed. But now with the limited specialist kit allocation, both as a system, and support being under it (and by that not making the regular infantry role obsolete) isn't it possible and even continous, to bring some of that old magic back?
Am I the only one missing what used to be?

And in any case; is the foot-on-a-rake level of recoil really neccessary?

wooly-back-jack · Post by **wooly-back-jack** » 2007-01-20 01:42

well my experience only goes as far as army cadets and a bren gun lol (that dragged you forward more than owt else heh), Im happy with the recoil ingame you just cant spam it, just bursts.
I suppose with the way the game is (i.e if you are shot you are knackered) there is no need for super accurate lmg's, if you are laying down covering fire wih that gun you can spam it and people will keep their heads down if its coming their way 'cos if they get shot they will be waiting 31 seconds to respawn

No Im sorry but I much prefer it the way it is now to the way it was with the M60 whores in BF:V lol.

Hail_831 · Post by **Hail_831** » 2007-01-20 01:48

I see no problem with bringing the lmg back to pre .4 levels. It is now a limited class and should be given the power it truly has on the battlefield.

Wattershed · Post by **Wattershed** » 2007-01-20 01:55

Bring back the old magic! You dont have to have 0.4 M4 über zero recoil, but have slight horisontal recoil, like 0.4 support, but much less.

danthemanbuddy · Post by **danthemanbuddy** » 2007-01-20 03:04

Yes Saw is just an automatic m16, but is way more controllable.

My brother in law, a squad leader in Iraq told me about saws and how they could be easy to control.

A-10Warthog · Post by **A-10Warthog** » 2007-01-20 06:05

a clan mate of mine was a SAW gunner in the iraq war and since i have a small obsession for them i talked to him about them and they have as much recoil as a m16 standing and crouching abd very little or no recoil laying don with the bipod out. so i say....

BRING BACK THE POWEA!

im a hard core support gunner and id love for me to be able to actually support my squad

Lolo · Post by **Lolo** » 2007-01-20 06:53

If you have ever played Day of Defeat you will know what a proper machine gun should be able to do, shut off avenues with super accurate rapid fire. In DoD there is a "setup" time so you cannot insta-prone and start firing. this is the way it should be IMO.

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-01-20 09:13

Lolo wrote:If you have ever played Day of Defeat you will know what a proper machine gun should be able to do, shut off avenues with super accurate rapid fire. In DoD there is a "setup" time so you cannot insta-prone and start firing. this is the way it should be IMO.

agreed. An lmg gunner prone at some corned covering the street should mean that the enemy won't go on that street, but will try to go around him. Right now you just run to the middle of the street, go prone and shoot him.

But I still love the lmg, it's very good for cqb and giving some kind of covering fire.

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » 2007-01-20 11:41

Lolo wrote:If you have ever played Day of Defeat you will know what a proper machine gun should be able to do, shut off avenues with super accurate rapid fire. In DoD there is a "setup" time so you cannot insta-prone and start firing. this is the way it should be IMO.

yes their system of deployable machine guns works really well,
RO has a simular system aswell where you can "rest" you weapon, when prone or near a wall.

MRGUMP!! · Post by **MRGUMP!!** » 2007-01-20 18:15

I somewhat agree that the support weapons in this mod need some work especially in the recoil department. It just seems unreasonable that an m249 or any of the support weapons would have more recoil than their rifle counterparts. If ballance is the problem here then just increase increase the cone of fire after say 10-15 rounds (if this is possible).

I also would love to see the addition of "barrel sway" or a period of time in which you must steady your weapon to reach full accuracy. This period of time should be longer on support weapons as they are a bit heavier. I'd also love if your screen jerked around allot if you prone while running or moving faster than a walk (lets get rid of dolphining once and for all). Again I'm not sure if such a change is even possible with bf2.

Heavy support weapons would be a fantastic addition as well (i know i know, getting off topic). An example of this would be the m240 medium machine gun. I'd imagine that if such kits were ever implemented that they would only come with one belt of ammo thus forcing the gunner to have a riflemen tossing him ammo if he wishes to remain usefull for extended periods of time.

cablecarandsnakefight · Post by **cablecarandsnakefight** » 2007-01-20 20:05

BF2 doesen't support horizontal recoil or sway, but that's certainly the feeling you got, probably just due to some rattle and a slow rise and progressive spread.

cablecarandsnakefight · Post by **cablecarandsnakefight** » 2007-01-22 09:21

Just thought I'd do a little bumpy and ask what the devs point of view on this is?

cablecarandsnakefight · Post by **cablecarandsnakefight** » 2007-01-24 10:01

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYylSbmIP3I

found some m249 action from a standing position

(at 1:35)

{XG} non_compliance · Post by **{XG} non_compliance** » 2007-01-24 11:13

wow.. shooting targets from 10 feet with full auto... talent.

cablecarandsnakefight · Post by **cablecarandsnakefight** » 2007-01-24 14:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4nfZu8VqgQ
alright then, here's some talent for ya

=NAA=Spaztik_Ferret · Post by **=NAA=Spaztik_Ferret** » 2007-01-24 17:13

Ok, I have fired the M249 Squad automatic weapon, the M240G medium machine gun and the .50 caliber machine gun. The biggest drawbacks of these weapons are the weight, slow target acquisition, and reload times. Other than that they are very controllable, and much much more accurate than these games depict them to be. Also they are more powerful in most cases than thier standard rifle counterparts meaning higher muzzle velocity.

With kit limiting in place I do not see why these weapons should be nerfed, BRING BACK THE POWER, the way they are now does not fit in a realism game and are pretty much useless. I would also like to see a medium machine gunner introduced.

Here is the only photo I could find as proof, this is me doing BZO with the M240G in Afghanistan in 04. Also doing Fam Fire with the shotgun. And then a pic with the avenger.

Mekstizzle · Post by **Mekstizzle** » 2007-01-24 17:46

Why would you need ground based air defence in Afghanistan, doubt the Taliban have air vehicles, or do they?

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-01-24 18:46

I would have to agree with the guy who started this thread. Support kits are limited. Why not make them more REAL. I've never fired the Chinese or MEC versions of the LMGj. I do have a lot of experience with the M249(SAW) and the M240B. When in the prone with either of these weapons there is no such recoil as the game depicts. Both are quite accurate when fired in short bursts. While standing the amount of bobble you get increases obviously, but at least with the SAW it is quite managable. SInce the kit is limited I don't see why it should remain nerfed.

huleboeren · Post by **huleboeren** » 2007-01-24 19:53

If theyre that accurate and stable - why arent all riflemen issued SAWs and M240's ?

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-01-24 20:11

huleboeren wrote:If theyre that accurate and stable - why arent all riflemen issued SAWs and M240's ?

Your kidding me right?

Well they are not AS accurate or controllable as their smaller counterparts. I mean that was a joke question right? Not too mention LMG's do require a bit more maintance since their feeding mechanisms have more moving parts. Then there is the issue of having to change the barrel out whent it gets hot. They are larger and heavier thus limiting your mobility. Because of their higher rate of fire, you tend to go through ammo faster. Which of course means you have to carry more ammo, further limiting your mobility. The larger drum magazines, or belts are bulkier then the simple magazines carried for regular assualt rifles. Need I go on?