What the HECK? Code Change?

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

Ok, tonight on HOG Fallujah, my guys were martyring like crazy but 3 caches became known within 30 minutes. While my squad only had a couple of arrests, the enemy had like martyred 10+ or so of us and were doing like right and left there for about 5 of them. Even with all that, the DADGUM caches were popping like popcorn. WTH?

[Ratface]

I noticed that about 3 weeks ago. My friend accidently killed like 10 civis on accident, didn't seem to affect how fast we learned about caches. Also on fallujah

[Gen.Aladeen002]

Lol, totally an accident.

[FFG]

I believe theres a max about of negative points one can have.

[Mats391]

As FFG posted, there is maximum of negative intel you can have. This is the intel required to reveal next cache times -1. In other words -50. You lose 5 intel for each civi kill, but gain 10 for a civi arrest. So if you got a couple of arrests within short time all your dying wont matter as it probably is enough to reveal cache.

[Sgt. Mahi]

As FFG posted, there is maximum of negative intel you can have. This is the intel required to reveal next cache times -1. In other words -50. You lose 5 intel for each civi kill, but gain 10 for a civi arrest. So if you got a couple of arrests within short time all your dying wont matter as it probably is enough to reveal cache.

Well... that's just ain't right

[RAWSwampFox]

As FFG posted, there is maximum of negative intel you can have. This is the intel required to reveal next cache times -1. In other words -50. You lose 5 intel for each civi kill, but gain 10 for a civi arrest. So if you got a couple of arrests within short time all your dying wont matter as it probably is enough to reveal cache.

Good Evening,

Yes, I haven't had a chance to read the manual as the game has been so great and I just started playing this week..................

You guys have missed the point, in my opinion. Something has changed because when 1.3.9 first was released, we had 2 hour rounds. Something within the past month has changed in some little way or CIVI playing has reached an ALL TIME HIGH and players #1) don't know how to play it or #2) are sabotaging their own team to make the caches known faster ending the round faster.

I personally have not seen an increase in CIVI play that would make me think that, wait, there are some folks who have not read anything about how to play this way causing them to get arrested faster popping caches faster. I mean, come on, I may have been born yesterday but it wasn't last night.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

Ok, I went back and read the stinking manual. Page 12:

• Insurgent killed: +1 IP (within 300m)
• Civilian or insurgent arrested: +10 IP
• Civilian killed (violating rules of engagement): -10 IP

So basically, with the little tiny amount of intel that is needed for each cache, they can run around with a shotgun and arrest any insurgent from 100m away (yes that is the distance at which I've been arrested before on Burning Sands), regardless of CIVI or not and get +10 intel? REALLY?? COME ON?? With only 50 needed and now the stupidly NERFED roadblocks, it's pointless to play CIVI. Everyone is running around with shotguns arresting everyone. I don't care about the argument that now we have the ALT medic kit to balance it out, BS, that doesn't do **** about balancing it out.

Well, no wonder the INS rounds as of late have only been 30 minutes long every stinking time. Screw it, this pisses me off. Find a balance or something, come on.

[SGT.Ice]

Good to know my favorite game mode is turning into a joke while i've been gone.

[bromley]

have a few questions:

1) Does a insurgent being wounded and revived give intel?
2) How many intel does opfor teamkills and suicides give?
3) Do kills with certain assets not gain your team intel? Example: If i am doing CAS or a tank as blufor and im killing insurgents, am I still getting intel for my team?

[bromley]

Good Evening,
Well, no wonder the INS rounds as of late have only been 30 minutes long every stinking time. Screw it, this pisses me off. Find a balance or something, come on.

Insurgency is fine, i see them win lots. Maybe if you did actual cache defense instead of make 8 man civi squads and cutting down effectively 20% of your teams combat force count you would actually not get stomped as INS. Also I've seen you teamswitch countless times just to be insurgent so dont complain when you switch to the losing team and you still lose.

[RAWSwampFox]

Insurgency is fine, i see them win lots. Maybe if you did actual cache defense instead of make 8 man civi squads and cutting down effectively 20% of your teams combat force count you would actually not get stomped as INS. Also I've seen you teamswitch countless times just to be insurgent so dont complain when you switch to the losing team and you still lose.

Let it be known - SwampFox DOES switch to the Insurgent side regardless of faction or map. Yes, I do. Not a bad thing as a ton of people do and have always done. The only exception I take to the above is that when a cache is in dire need of defense because 1) no squads/SL's build fobs or 2) everyone was killed on the cache - my squad comes in to help with guns and defends the cache. Also, I don't know if I would use the word "effectively" in the sentence as CIVIES are great recon folks. I could say the same about snipers, marksmen, and spotters too about how they "effectively" cut down on the fighting force.

have a few questions:

1) Does a insurgent being wounded and revived give intel?
2) How many intel does opfor teamkills and suicides give?
3) Do kills with certain assets not gain your team intel? Example: If i am doing CAS or a tank as blufor and im killing insurgents, am I still getting intel for my team?

1) I say yes. The only way I know to answer this question is based on a CIVI getting martyred and revived. Blufor still loses intel.
2) TK's = 1 (I don't know if a TK from a shotgun though gives the +10 intel), suicides - for CIVIES = +10 intel for insurgents +1 intel.
3) The manual says no. I have no data to prove either way.


Regardless of the above, my point is, the CIVI/ROE portion of the game has been so DRASTICALLY changed lately that it is becoming a worthless tactic all together. Say what you will, CIVI/ROE has, IMO, breathed new life into INS rounds. If we are going to DRASTICALLY change the intel needed for the caches to the low number that it is and then DRASTICALLY change the CIVI/ROE to where Blufor can win everytime with minimal coordination, ARGH.

[Mats391]

I was on a Basrah round on NwA (surprise!) past days and the BluFor team had 5 digit kill score, but 3 digit teamwork. They killed lots of civilians and did not gain any new cache after the initial one. Insurgents win quite a lot actually. Yes it often is not a fun win, but they still win
To address some myths thrown around here:
- Shotguns cannot arrest armed insurgents, only civilians. To arrest an armed insurgent you need to use your zipties.
- Heavy vehicles do not generate any intel. This includes tanks, apcs, ifvs, cas, aav.
- Suicide as civilian counts as arrest. This is to prevent them just committing suicide when they are about to be arrested. Suicide for armed insurgents does not generate intel.
- Teamkills do not generate intel.
- Being revived does not generate or deduct intel. The intel is gather on kill, not on death. If you are insurgent and have a close by spawn, it is better to just give up than to wait for medic.
- Roadblocks werent nerfed, they are bugged. Look forward to building impenetrable fortresses again next patch

[LiamBai]

Good Evening,

Ok, I went back and read the stinking manual. Page 12:

• Insurgent killed: +1 IP (within 300m)
• Civilian or insurgent arrested: +10 IP
• Civilian killed (violating rules of engagement): -10 IP

So basically, with the little tiny amount of intel that is needed for each cache, they can run around with a shotgun and arrest any insurgent from 100m away (yes that is the distance at which I've been arrested before on Burning Sands), regardless of CIVI or not and get +10 intel? REALLY?? COME ON?? With only 50 needed and now the stupidly NERFED roadblocks, it's pointless to play CIVI. Everyone is running around with shotguns arresting everyone. I don't care about the argument that now we have the ALT medic kit to balance it out, BS, that doesn't do **** about balancing it out.

Well, no wonder the INS rounds as of late have only been 30 minutes long every stinking time. Screw it, this pisses me off. Find a balance or something, come on.

Shotguns only arrest civis, not normal insurgents.

[RAWSwampFox]

To address some myths thrown around here:
- Shotguns cannot arrest armed insurgents, only civilians. To arrest an armed insurgent you need to use your zipties.

Good Evening,

The only myths that are being thrown around are caused by the lack of clear language in the dadgum manual. You say that shotguns only arrest civilians whereas on page 31 "The opposing force can arrest civilians as well as other insurgents with the restrainer or the Shotgun with a buckshot round." NOTE: It states you can arrest an insurgent with a shotgun.

It is what the manual leaves out as well as the lack of any visible means of Intel Points (IP) monitoring that contributes to these so-called myths. I don't read the code nor am I a programmer, I just observe and collect data based on what I see.

There will be those that will post here and state that I don't know what I'm talking about because they just got done playing some round on some server on some day in the not to distant past where it went on forever and I'm wrong. If you've never played on a round where I've played or been in close contact with me during any round, AAS or INS, you know I am constantly observing the map and the scoreboard. I've gone so far as to count the average deaths per minute based on a 5 minute sampling, compare it against the current ticket count and game clock and predicted, within a fair range of accuracy, the end of the game well in advance (example, 30-45 minutes before).

While the manual is written to convey the majority of the information that this game has to offer, it has not always been accurate. Also, code has been changed on servers in the past and not noted in any changelog or update to the manual. Example: One version of PR allowed anyone to spawn on any rally point from any squad, after others and I pointed this out, it was brought out that there was a code change on the server side causing the issue. So please understand my total distrust for accuracy versus experience and history.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Morning,

Ok, still think something has changed. Today on Fallujah, Blufor was martyr'ing folks like crazy but still had all the caches within an hour. Seems kind of pointless now to CIVI.

Others were also commenting about it as well so it's not only me.

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Afternoon,

Further proof that something has changed.



El Silencio was in AAV and killed my squad of 4-5 CIVIES multiple times. He had martyred us at least 7 or 8 times and was not executed as per the manual. He evidently was still "spawn time" punished as he rage quit after he got killed.

Now with this being said, it makes me wonder if they lose any intel from 300m+ kill shots? I've been told that they don't gain any (no proof as there is no visible way to monitor intel). Evidently Martyrdom is only effective in regards to Intel Points (IP) from kill shots under 300m?

Come on, this is crazy. While I understand that DEV asset lovers may have a strong distaste or have a very strong desire to correct the balance based on my tactics but, at least set the execution level at 6 please for any martyr killed. Seriously, if there is no executing of blufor asset guys that shoot COD style killing everything that moves in their "deathmatch" eyesight, then what will deter them from continuing to kill CIVIES. People with fast computers can exit the game and reload faster than the 5 minute timer making it a moot point. And if no IP is lost due to 300m+ Martyrdom, WHY NOT in some small way?

[RAWSwampFox]

Good Evening,

Ok, combine the earlier post about the APC gunner who wasn't executed after martyr'ing 7 or 8 CIVIES and yesterday where on Al Basrah, an APC gunner did get executed. Is the code flip flopping as bad as Trump?

[UTurista]

Are you taking in consideration the time frame? Because you only get executed if you kill X civilians within Y seconds, once those Y seconds have passed after the last civilian kill your civilian counter will be back to zero.