Is PR serious business? [semi-rant about "What we've become?"]

[Mouthpiece]

Let me explain a bit before anyone of you tries to answer the question (and to add - the question is more or less a rhetorical one; more of a statement then a question actually).

A small warning about this post: it contains a lot of semi-related info about the topic that could or could not be interesting to readers (probably not interesting as it's the history of me understanding the "serious business" behind this wonderful mod).
For TL;DR peeps I'll start the more "on topic" paragraphs with the first word in it being in BOLD (so all you people with attention deficit or just a really short attention span can also catch a glimpse of what my ramblings are about) .

PLEASE NOTE: every question that I have an interest of getting an answer from you will be underlined, so also, yes, you can skip to the questions if you don't want to read a lot!

Also, I would really like for PR vets to try to answer to my questions provided in the lower part of my post (yes, just skip the read if you wish and get to the questions), but that doesn't mean that answers from anyone (including newcomers) aren't welcome - they really are. But if talking about SLs - to me the most interesting are the options of those SLs who still play and the ones who don't. And also I'm more interested in SLs that spend or have spent heir most time in PUBs as in the good ol' days (ya, I know, nostalgia can blur ones sight; but I hope it hasn't done it to me; although at the same time I hope it has, and that I'm totally wrong about everything; I really, really hope that I am wrong).

Introduction:

Lately (actually after 1.0) I've been playing less and less PR. Yes, it has to do a lot of with the fact that I have less time for playing games that require constant communication. But when I do, I almost always have this nostalgia for the "good old times".

I started playing this mod with the release of PR 0.91 (bought BF2 just for this mod and I still haven't played BF2 almost at all) therefore I can be considered somewhat a vet (of course, there wen're many more before me), but by "vet" I mean that whilst playing 0.91 I really got the feeling about wnhat PR is meant to be for people who want to play this game seriously on pubs.

Let me explain this (me being a) "vet" stuff and the nostalgia feeling. Back then playing with the mindset "PR's serious business" was like a default attitude for most of players (I played almost exclusively in UKWF at daytime with it's awesome "zero tolerance" rule that basically meant "no screwing around at all" and in nighttime I almost exclusively played in the famous and oh-so-awesome Tactical Gamer). After both servers died (UKWF died a fast and hopefully painless death, but TG stayed alive a bit longer.

RIP to the server whose gameplay and regulars made me understand what really is or better yet SHOULD be the mindset of a PR player, and thanks to the great SL's there that encouraged me (also big shout out to PR vet xact who really friggin motivated me to continue my path to becoming an SL by complimenting me a lot in one of my first experiences where I took over the command of a jew INF squad in Beirut - back then I understood that he was a vet already - and there are few better feelings then a good critique coming from a player who was so much more experienced in the things I was trying for the first time). Of course, becoming at least a mediocre SL is not a hard days work, it takes months and years of practice and sometimes it's even a torturous grind (when 4 out of 5 squad mates were there just for fun; but I quickly learned that I have the power to make them into my sheep [as SM's aren't supposed to think a lot themselves; of course their initiative is really the key to success, but not with disobedience] or make them leave).

Main body:

Nowadays I see more and more people making fun of this statement and people who agree that PR is serious business. Yes, the statement has a somewhat elitist feel to it and with the influx of lot of newbies it doesn't really attract a lot of votes from masses, but that's only normal as PR is the opposite of a casual multiplayer shooter and therefore it can proudly wear its elite uniform without being laughed at by other players. And those who laugh may possibly never experienced the power of inter squad coordination what was so prevalent in back in the days when Mumble wasn't integrated and you had to join it manually by finding the server, team and respective squad. Damn, one of my most enjoyed guilty pleasures was sitting in the SL channel while I wasn't SL'ing. I learned huge amounts of info about how to communicate properly by just listening.

But the art of listening, as I feel, with years seems to have been lost. Don't get me wrong, PR has always had its share of bad apples, just as any other community - people who'd rather like to talk then to listen. Though this problem seems more prevalent now then it was before. I understand that it has to do a lot with the changed attitudes towards new players, and I really understand it - we don't want to scare any of them off. Although I wouldn't mind if PR had smaller player base - one which had gone trough rough first experiences only to learn from them.

So why doesn't newer players (and even older ones that haven't stopped playing) consider PR being a serious business?

I won't answer directly to this question as there are many possible answers, and none of them is the correct one (in this case). I'll rather point out some of the differences between "Then" and "Now".

When was the last time you saw a squad named "INF DISCIPLINE"? Do you even know what that means? The discipline part. God, I miss those SL's who took their precious time to lead a squad like that - the last time it happened to me was few months before 1.0 came out.
There was this Finnish gentlemen whos name I can't remember and who led this kind of squad really often. What he did wasn't something that was and is quite uncommon (at first) - he split the squad in two permanent fire teams (as usual, one being the assault, one staying on the overwatch, or depending on the map - if leapfrogging was the way to go, both FT's we're organized to be flexible (e.g., no "AR stays back to cover the ironsighted forward motion"), and that was with SIX players in the squad).

But the magic happened when he started to micro us - not in a way that's annoying and unnecessary, but as our squad mostly consisted of newer players It was a necessity to reach the intended goals (that we're quite high for bunch of relative newbies), he almost always told every player what to do and when to do it. And it worked like a charm. We we're like a clockwork - AR was always on high ground and on overwatch (or if assaulting - racking up most of the kills as it should be on the front lines, someone usually spotting targets for him), everyone had their role and everyone listened to the SL really carefully as he was our boss, our master, our only true god (it was time where commander was more rare then a C'n'C match), and there we're no deviations from what he told us to do, except the individual initiative part (of course that a SL can't see from the eyes of his SMs therefore iniative is the key to success in small engagements).

So where am I going with this?

Conclusion:

Has PR in it's post 1.0 releases have become a game that doesn't reward this kind of hardcore SL'ing? Has the mod become a game where nowadays it's easier to win by using individual initiative together with mandatory "stick with your squad" (mostly because if you don't, you're chances or being revived are slim), leaving out the important aspect of people following a leader who more or less dictates the pacing, gear, ROE and even positions of individual SM's?
Has the SL postion has become somewhat obsolete - only to be used as a tool to gather/relay intel and more rarely - try to work with another squad (that usually being CAS, not an INF squad that together could decide the outcome of battle)?

Why don't I see the vets coming back to this mod (except the ones who do almost exclusevly are joining a clan as it's sometimes (80% for me) so demoralizing to lead 7 people who really don't want to take this mod with the seriousness that It deserves). And by that I mean everything from not following their pre-match called roles (switching to different kits w/o asking SL first - back in the days you would get a vacation from your squad for this kind of nonsense as SL always had a plan for everyone; at least the good ones), to chatting about non-game related stuff (come on guys, I know that this sometimes is a waiting game, but most of newer players really can't concentrate on two separate things at once - first being their objective and second - their stupid **** their talking about; and the sad thing is that I see more and more people concentrating on the second).

A quick sum-up:

To end this chaotic essay-like post (without the qualities of a nicely written essay ofc), I would really like if you would think about the potential this game had and has and how it's probably/possibly not used to it's fullest because IMHO now even with mediocre playing and an SL that just keeps the squad together with a medic and points them in the right direction (being the one who is the most informed match-wise) can be effective enough to both attack and defend with success.

Is it just me? It can't be. Has seriousness got thrown out of a window just because nowadays it's not mandatory to win a match? Is it just a balance problem? Or has the fact that right now we have to deal with 36 more players in a server is making us less serious business/teamwork orientated (I'm talking especially about SLs as EVERYTHING is in their hands)?
Of course, it could be that more people per server mean that it's harder to balance the teams, as it really takes no effort to dominate a team that can't even get their shit together (by that I mean, SL's aren't doing their basic work of keeping their squads together, making sure they don't die in awkward spots and keeping the medic alive; I won't even mention asset wasters that rush to frontlines w/o any intel thinking the enemy eye in the sky won't report them to their respective counter).

So maybe SLs in the 'more stacked' team have this mindset that if they try harder, the opposing team won't really have a slightest chance of resisting the 'stacked teams' squads? So maybe it's a good thing (for the newbies) afterall?

***

This post is so chaotic that I will try to extract the exact questions from it and post them in an orderly fashion so people can see them without trying to follow my ramblings (although the stuff I wrote - it can be interesting for both PUB vets and PUB new comers as it illustrates IMHO the changes in the most serious factor there is - human psychology behind the player and especially the SL and how has it changed over the years).

So, the questions for you (I hope I'll extract all of the serious ones w/o missing something):

1. When was the last time you saw a squad named "INF DISCIPLINE"? And how you experienced how this kind of squad operates?

2. Has PR in it's post 1.0 releases have become a game that doesn't reward this kind of hardcore SL'ing? By hardcore I mean an SL that directly commands their squad, and there is no time and place for screwing around by chatting about random stuff or switching to another kit w/o asking permission (those are just the tiniest aspects of "hardcore").

3. Has the mod gradually become more and more suited for lower level of tactical play where nowadays it's easier to win by mostly using individual initiative together with mandatory "stick with your squad" (mostly because if you don't, you're chances or being revived are slim), leaving out the important aspect of people following a leader who more or less dictates the pacing, gear, ROE and even positions of individual SM's, not to mention tactics and the grand strategy?

4. How often do you encounter an SL who at the start of the match explains their strategy and tactics instead of just naming the kits he needs and what kind of transport to occupy? (I remember that I used to leave squads who had SL's that didn't even talk about their plan)

5. Has the SL postion has become somewhat obsolete- only to be used as a tool to gather/relay intel and more rarely - try to work with another squad (that usually being CAS, not an INF squad that together could decide the outcome of battle)?

6. Why don't I see the vets coming back to this mod (except the ones who do almost exclusevly are joining a clan)?

7. Has seriousness (e.g., a SL who leads, not just keeps people together) got thrown out of a window just because nowadays it's not mandatory to win a match? Is it just a balance problem (more players = more chance of unbalanced teams?)? Or has the fact that right now we have to deal with 36 more players in a server is making us less serious business/teamwork orientated? (I'm talking especially about SLs as EVERYTHING is in their hands, and as noted: now IMHO a team can win by being more laid back then ever)

8. So maybe SLs in the 'more stacked' team have this mindset that if they try harder (e.g, encouraging more teamwork oriented style of playing), the opposing team won't really have a slightest chance of resisting the 'stacked teams' squads? So maybe it's a good thing in this scenario (for the newbies) afterall?

Ugh, I could write down more questions, but I fear noone will reply to the given ones as "they're too long to read". I really hope that at least half of the community of PR has a clue what I'm writing about and why am I interested in answers to these questions.

I really want to understand why I feel so different playing this mod now then I did few years ago. And you can help me. A lot. Damn, If only I had cookies, I would totally give them to anyone who at least replies to some of my questions. Instead of cookies imagine that you're helping a poor virtual veteran soldier with his PR induced PSTD, and the only way to get rid of it is to better understand the answer to the general question of "WHY?".

Thank you for your attention. I know I dun goofed by writing this much, but I still have a hope for humanity and for people who aren't afraid to read about things that are IMHO quite serious and deter-mental (at least for me).

[LiamBai]

>2600 words.

That's longer than anything I've had to write in my Masters degree so far. :l

[Mouthpiece]

So, yeah, PR's serious business, more serious than your puny Masters degree (as it involves everyone of us), hehe!

Anyway, just read the questions at the end of my post and answer them if you don't want to read all the rant. And I'm saying this to EVERYONE for whom this is a TL;DR.

[>para<]

i know what you mean, i played PR from 0.75-0.8 im a vet too i recently check my friends on forum who i met in Game over the years and most of them has stoped played at 2011-2013 great guys who the discipline was top priority, tolerating bad behavior was zero, and like you mention one squad spliting of two groups was something normal for serious gameplay, the main problems is you mention in point 3, at 0.8 -0.95 was the best s**t, the DEVs released a RP version and thats it, you play it, you enjoyed, thats why i like the PR the hardcore gaming that mod make you think to take proper decisions, many joined on forums and start to complaining about that, abouth this, how something was hard, how they want something and the DEVs was just : ok cool, if you dont like it dont play it, but now is the oposite, some newbie playing PR for one or two months and eventualy will leave the community start to complain and the DEVs are : oohh ok let me just fix that so you can feel comfortable, suggestion part of the forum is the worst thing ever. vets will come back when the mod became serious again.

[anantdeathhawk]

My answer won't about squad leading but i agree with what you have said mouthpiece.I also agree with paratrooper[BG] that how a feature like turret swivel was slowed down in 1.3.5 and how the players were saying that it's hard, although they reported that the turret overshot the desired rotation,but that something you should deal with, like we are told to deal with flying the choppers and have to have skills developed in an offline server.

[Jacksonez__]

"memories grow sweeter with time"

[Murkey]

So I read most of it (supposed to be working). I was probably in that IDF squad with Xact, so feel I should at least answer some of the questions.

1. Squad named "INF DISCIPLINE"? And experience? Never nowadays. Mumble INF or Mic INF is the standard. I used to love these kinds of squads, serious business, no bullshit, but not milsim either. That's how I run my squads to this day, although I am guilty of mostly playing with can mates.

2. Has PR in it's post 1.0 releases have become a game that doesn't reward this kind of hardcore SL'ing? In public games a couple of well managed INF squads can make all the difference. But this is mostly if they do simple things like build FOBs, defend flags, talk to each other etc. The hardcore aspect might make them a more effective squad in a firefight, but it's hard to say when you have some squads full of people who've been playing for years (or play every night) standing off against new players, or players with a free-kits SL. The range of players skill mean individual players can make as much of a difference as SL style. I know if I have a few players who are pretty new in my squad I can not play as aggressively and must micro-manage, while if I have a squad full of vets we can just go high speed, low drag through the front lines.

3. Has the mod gradually become more and more suited for lower level of tactical play where nowadays it's easier to win by mostly using individual initiative together with mandatory "stick with your squad"? I'd say this might be the case. Whether the mod has changed, the level of player skill has changed or the level of tactical understanding in squad members has changed is another question. As an SL, playing with experienced players I don't need to tell the AR to find a good spot to cover, or when medics should smoke, they usually already know. If I do have to micro-manage it might be done a little faster or better, but I'd only do this if and when it was required, depending on the players. So I'd say the player base is the cause, not anything in terms of changes to the mod.

4. How often do you encounter an SL who at the start of the match explains their strategy and tactics instead of just naming the kits he needs and what kind of transport to occupy? Not often, in 3dAC maybe half the time, in random squads, not very often. I find it does help to keep the squad together and motivated.

5. Has the SL postion has become somewhat obsolete? Certainly not, we should be the change we want to see. The more involved a decent INF SL is with his squad and his team the better they'll all do. I'd like to see more hardcore/ disciplined SL'ing that is why the PRT and clans are so much fun to be part of IMO. We should encourage this more generally, staring with server rules them going all they way down to individual squad members taking thinhs more seriously. I talk shit in game, but not when it's go time

6. Why don't I see the vets coming back to this mod (except the ones who do almost exclusevly are joining a clan)? It's been years, lot of people get jobs, wives, kids and can't play or move on to other things. As for clans, the issue is that it's fun to play with people you know. Not just to play with experienced players and whore assets (although that is obviously a part of it), but because you get to learn new skills, play together well, compete in the occasional match and just al;ways have reliable and charming people to play PR with. Can't blame people for that.

7. Has seriousness (e.g., a SL who leads, not just keeps people together) got thrown out of a window just because nowadays it's not mandatory to win a match? I'd never thought of this but having more players might be another cause of less seriousness. It's easier to just run around the map like a lone-wolf idiot and still find people to shoot at, plus it's harder to manage more players as an admin and SL. Then team balance means people feel like it doesn't matter if they play seriously and try to win, if it seems random then might as well just have fun.

8. So maybe SLs in the 'more stacked' team have this mindset that if they try harder (e.g, encouraging more teamwork oriented style of playing), the opposing team won't really have a slightest chance of resisting the 'stacked teams' squads? So maybe it's a good thing in this scenario (for the newbies) afterall? Hmm, dunno about that. I'd like to see more serious SLs that use squad tactics, team comms and give briefings etc all that good stuff. As well as servers that enforce serious gameplay (without going full milsim). Lastly squad members that know when thay can talk shit and when to play seriously. But as I said earlier all we can do is lead by example (and join the PRT)

I'm honestly not trying to recruit but if anyone is missing some serious PR gameplay jump on the 3dAC (or NEW/PRTA/PRT/ whatever) TS and get stuck in. Or lead the squads yourself. Being a serious SL can be very fun, I have old video guides on how to SL below.

Cheers, Murkey.

*edit* sorry for typos, punctuation etc, I really am supposed to be working

[fecht_niko]

Not much time to write but I'll try to answer the more important questions:

1. Leading a pub squad you are lucky if everyone has a mic and isnt completely retarded.

2. PR changed after 1.0 that individual skill makes much more difference. Skilled lonewolves can wipe full squads easly because the game became much faster and most of the weapons are lazer guns.

3. PR was always kinda simple: Play the objectives, build good FOBs, destroy enemy FOBs and hope you have good pilots/crewmen

4. Being SL 99% I always tell my guys what we are going to do, but you should always stay flexible. Cant stand SLs try harding some milsim ideas they had at round start.

6. RL things

7. Winning is fun and the only goal in this game.

[agus92]

Not much time to write but I'll try to answer the more important questions:

1. Leading a pub squad you are lucky if everyone has a mic and isnt completely retarded.

2. PR changed after 1.0 that individual skill makes much more difference. Skilled lonewolves can wipe full squads easly because the game became much faster and most of the weapons are lazer guns.

3. PR was always kinda simple: Play the objectives, build good FOBs, destroy enemy FOBs and hope you have good pilots/crewmen

4. Being SL 99% I always tell my guys what we are going to do, but you should always stay flexible. Cant stand SLs try harding some milsim ideas they had at round start.

6. RL things

7. Winning is fun and the only goal in this game.

I don't like lonewolfing, but generally a good squad survives one lonewolfer, so I don't think we shold degrade too much gun handling.

[Nate.]

1. When was the last time you saw a squad named "INF DISCIPLINE"? And how you experienced how this kind of squad operates?

It was a Mil-Sim Squad and they seemed to be more concerned with fancy formations than winning the game or helping the team.

2. Has PR in it's post 1.0 releases have become a game that doesn't reward this kind of hardcore SL'ing? By hardcore I mean an SL that directly commands their squad, and there is no time and place for screwing around by chatting about random stuff or switching to another kit w/o asking permission (those are just the tiniest aspects of "hardcore").

No - if you think it's hardcore-SLing to tell people what to do and not changing kits mid-round then I think hardcore-SLing is pretty commmon. A good SL allows chatter from time to time (walking around on a 4km map..) but makes sure everyone shuts up with the irrelevant stuff when shit hits the fan

3. Has the mod gradually become more and more suited for lower level of tactical play where nowadays it's easier to win by mostly using individual initiative together with mandatory "stick with your squad" (mostly because if you don't, you're chances or being revived are slim), leaving out the important aspect of people following a leader who more or less dictates the pacing, gear, ROE and even positions of individual SM's, not to mention tactics and the grand strategy?

Nah.

4. How often do you encounter an SL who at the start of the match explains their strategy and tactics instead of just naming the kits he needs and what kind of transport to occupy? (I remember that I used to leave squads who had SL's that didn't even talk about their plan)

Good SLs adapt their strategy as the round goes on. Normal Infantry strategy should be about playing the objectives. Of course different SL's have different styles, and I have seen SLs explain what they want and expect plenty of times.

5. Has the SL postion has become somewhat obsolete- only to be used as a tool to gather/relay intel and more rarely - try to work with another squad (that usually being CAS, not an INF squad that together could decide the outcome of battle)?

No

6. Why don't I see the vets coming back to this mod (except the ones who do almost exclusevly are joining a clan)?

Because it's old?

7. Has seriousness (e.g., a SL who leads, not just keeps people together) got thrown out of a window just because nowadays it's not mandatory to win a match? Is it just a balance problem (more players = more chance of unbalanced teams?)? Or has the fact that right now we have to deal with 36 more players in a server is making us less serious business/teamwork orientated? (I'm talking especially about SLs as EVERYTHING is in their hands, and as noted: now IMHO a team can win by being more laid back then ever)

how is it not mandatory to win a match?
36+ players makes it harder for admins and the individual contribution becomes less important.

[sweedensniiperr]

It could actually be player numbers now that I think about it...

[Navo]

I have seen people refering to the 'good old times' since .5. Someone who started playing in .91 doing that just sounds ridiculous to me, no offense.

The integration of Mumble into PR with the 1.0 release is the best thing that ever happened to PR teamwork-wise. I'm sure plenty of people will remember how many people weren't on mumble before that. Maybe some others will remember the dark ages, where you had to rely on BF2's shitty VOIP and there were only about 2 or 3 squads every round with people actually using microphones. This situation was the source of the 'INF VOIP' and 'INF TEAMWORK' squad names - Squads that weren't called like that usually didn't have anyone talking. Nowadays, you will have people talking 9/10 of the time in any squad (for better or worse ).

My point is that the level of teamwork in PR right now probably is pretty high compared to previous releases.

[Jacksonez__]

.I also agree with paratrooper[BG] that how a feature like turret swivel was slowed down in 1.3.5 and how the players were saying that it's hard, although they reported that the turret overshot the desired rotation,but that something you should deal with,

it was unrealistic, lmao. Did you even try it? Since stats don't save anywhere, winning the match after long game is the only satisfaction you get here.

Not saving stats is the good thing in PR, because nobody cares.

If you are saying how good previous PR versions were, enjoy the real asset whoring then. Inf sure got wrecked back then. CAS is pretty much nerfed now, requires some skill to be efficient. I guess you should play more clan matches if you want some tactical stuff.

[WhatTheHell]

I believe the ''seriousness'' of something always depends on the importance of details accorded to the whole Scheme.


I remember back in the days the hype of PR being fuelled by all the work invested by the (retired) Devs.

They had paid to get real sounds for vehicles themselve. I remember videos published of the devs recording all sorts of armored vehicles.


This was serious business.

All these developpers who had put such intensity in the creation of this mod made this serious feeling.


It's all those details that came in orbit around the core of this project wich is the game itself and wich gave it this very unique feeling.


Although,
like all things, PR is living. PR is living through the passion of those who develop this game and the ones who play it.

PR is also 10+ years old.

Most of the development crew has retired now, and most of the Developers now are simply keeping the game working. (Although some unique stuff are coming like 16km map and naval battle )

Simply the Serious part of the job has already been done.

[Gerfand]

Was the Pre 1.0 really good, or is your memory lying to you?

Its the same of when someone break w/ his/her Girlfriend/Boyfriend and after a certain time they start dating back, just to break after 1 or 2 weeks.

This is because you remember only the good things of that time... and there other things, but I am not a neuroscientist.

[WhatTheHell]

That's how I see it

Pre 1.0

70% boring matches
30% excellent matches

Post 1.0

40% boring matches
50% good matches
10% Excellent matches


Basically the mod traded Quality for Quantity.

Wich then become a subjective point of view wether being a Pro or a Con

[sunshine2241991]

1. When was the last time you saw a squad named "INF DISCIPLINE"? And how you experienced how this kind of squad operates?

it been to long that i see this kind of squad maybe last time was back in 0.9
now it just mumble inf mumble teamwork mumble eng



2. Has PR in it's post 1.0 releases have become a game that doesn't reward this kind of hardcore SL'ing? By hardcore I mean an SL that directly commands their squad, and there is no time and place for screwing around by chatting about random stuff or switching to another kit w/o asking permission (those are just the tiniest aspects of "hardcore").

its the same mod . only its been more than 10+ years and the community now i mixed with clans , new players and some casual players . so you cant play too hardcore when your squad members see everyone in frontline having fun .

3. Has the mod gradually become more and more suited for lower level of tactical play where nowadays it's easier to win by mostly using individual initiative together with mandatory "stick with your squad" (mostly because if you don't, you're chances or being revived are slim), leaving out the important aspect of people following a leader who more or less dictates the pacing, gear, ROE and even positions of individual SM's, not to mention tactics and the grand strategy?

main problem is the rally points system . if you will split you squad and somehow they will die and you wont be able to revive them 90% that Rally point that u set already disappeared and new one wont be available , so half of the squad will be respawning in main base and squad will be splited

4. How often do you encounter an SL who at the start of the match explains their strategy and tactics instead of just naming the kits he needs and what kind of transport to occupy? (I remember that I used to leave squads who had SL's that didn't even talk about their plan)

because this mod is so old and all maps overplayed everyone already know what to do its just a question witch squad will do what .

5. Has the SL postion has become somewhat obsolete- only to be used as a tool to gather/relay intel and more rarely - try to work with another squad (that usually being CAS, not an INF squad that together could decide the outcome of battle)?

no SL is still to date most important and hard role to play

6. Why don't I see the vets coming back to this mod (except the ones who do almost exclusevly are joining a clan)?

mod 10+ years old . and they probably got overplayed the game .
mod is great but u cant just play the same game over and over again for years .
i myself play the mod from 0.3 . and almost after year i got sick of the mod and make some brake for a half a year and then rejoined back


7. Has seriousness (e.g., a SL who leads, not just keeps people together) got thrown out of a window just because nowadays it's not mandatory to win a match? Is it just a balance problem (more players = more chance of unbalanced teams?)? Or has the fact that right now we have to deal with 36 more players in a server is making us less serious business/teamwork orientated? (I'm talking especially about SLs as EVERYTHING is in their hands, and as noted: now IMHO a team can win by being more laid back then ever)

no you still can find very hardcorish milsimish squads . but its not for everyone . and most players dont like it .

8. So maybe SLs in the 'more stacked' team have this mindset that if they try harder (e.g, encouraging more teamwork oriented style of playing), the opposing team won't really have a slightest chance of resisting the 'stacked teams' squads? So maybe it's a good thing in this scenario (for the newbies) afterall?

well more people = more guns = more bullets = more chance to kill the enemy

[Rice N. Beans]

In reply to Mouthpiece original post

I read and absorbed everything you wrote
I have to put in the disclaimer that I am not a Project Reality player but I do play recreational paintball, paintball out-in-the-woods

A part of what you wrote stood out for me: "it's no longer mandatory to win a match"

When in human psychology (at least in mine) when games can be enjoyed even though there's less incentive to win, or "it's not mandatory to win a match," I focus my energy on the tools I have at my disposal as that will be what turns the tide in so-called battle

In paintball I have a CCI Phantom with ten-feed and a CO2 cartridge changer. The barrel is .686" bore but no one told me that, I had to figure it out on my own. Not all paintballs fit in a .686" bore barrel. In fact there is no one-size-fits-all barrel except for two-piece barrels but in my experience these have less range probably due to front-spin (although still accurate) than a single solid piece of aluminum or brass.

So what I did was I bought a steel plate that has .686" diameter holes drilled into it for about $90 and roll a bag of paintballs into it, and can filter the smaller-than-.686" paintballs through and store them away so that months later (about 8 months or) humidity will cause those smaller paintballs to swell back up to the size I need. The paintballs that get stuck are ready to be shot in my Phantom and are put into a separate labelled bag.

Since I have bore-matched my paintballs to my paintgun, I now win more paintball matches (even against the decorated "tourney" folk). Paintballs shoot straight and do not break in my barrel.

So ask yourself, "Is winning more games what I want, even though I have lesser and lesser control over my squad mates?" then perhaps it isn't so bad to be individually initiated to "look at what you're looking at" and make the necessary changes.

As for playing computer games..

For a short while I was running a Viewsonic LCD that Cnet.com foolishly recommended despite its $400 price tag back in 2007. It was good, nice, whatever, though I quickly realized it was not as good as the Apple Cinema monitors that were at my school. I realized I was ripped off by Cnet/Viewsonic, perhaps the two working together to get more sales and royalties off each other. But that's besides my next point..

Playing Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare on the Viewsonic LCD, I could only see 60 frames per second (60Hz). But I didn't know that. I never thought about things like that. I saw in the upper right the FPS counter and it would be in the high 100s unless an airstrike was called in. I was wondering why I was getting shot before I could see the other guy. I swapped the DVI cable for VGA and instead of 60 Hz there was 75 Hz, resulting in a little better smoothness which surprised me. But the signal looked like **** on the Viewsonic.

Later on I saw a CRT monitor at a Goodwill for $5 and thought "heh, why not". It was one of those Sony Vaio ones that were meant to be cute like the old Macintoshes. I plug Call of Duty into it and am amazed by the smoothness. I ask, "Why is this so damn smooth?" The colors were **** compared to the Viewsonic, but it got me curious. How would a better CRT handle?

So later, this is back in Connecticut / Rhode Island where I used to live in 2008, I was derping around in a computer store and saw a Gateway CRT monitor up for sale for $80 princely dollars. I was a reckless spender back then, and the monitor looked good and clean, so I bought it and brought it home. I re-donated the Vaio monitor back to a Goodwill and hooked Call of Duty 4 into the Gateway CRT. I was getting 100+ Hz screen smoothness. I lowered the resolution to 800x600 and was getting 140 Hz / frames per second. So I thought, "shit, if I can attain 140 Hz, I might as well lower the graphics to the most minimum I can to make full use of those 140 frames per second." I did just that, by discovering a site called bashandslash.com and I tried out the config_mp files that were on that site that were meant to provide the most fluid and fast-paced experience in Call of Duty 4 / Quake 3 games. They weren't hacks per se, but rather a bunch of subtle adjustments that make your mouse more accurate, syncs your client to the server world more closely, and of course removes unwanted textures and graphics (without spoiling smoke effects or makes the game imbalanced). I realized that if I lowered the textures and graphics, while at the same time boosting up Anti-Aliasing and Anisotropic Filter, I could play 800x600 and see all the details that someone with a 1680x1050 LCD could see at double the refresh rate, double the frames per second.

So back then, another site called razerblueprints was around and they had on their site some downloads where you can override Windows XP mouse settings and create 1:1 mouse/cursor accuracy. You can also download a program/driver that overclocks your mouse USB port. I learned on the site that USB mouses refresh at 125 Hz by default. I asked myself, "why would I want my mouse to continue to work slower than my monitor?" So using a mouse-overclocker program from the razerblueprints website I bumped up the mouse to 1000 Hz. That's a megahertz.

Another site called esreality gave me good solid reasons, with graphs and stuff, why I should choose an Intellimouse / Wheel Mouse Optical on a cloth mouse pad specifically as my mouse-of-choice

I enjoyed these new settings in Call of Duty 4 for years until the RAM slots burnt out on my motherboard (probably due to the mouse overclock). I happily bought two new gigs of RAM for a few pennies since they depreciated in value and changed slots over. By then it was time to go back to school and live somewhere without Internet for a couple years. Then forgot about PC gaming.

So I wrote all this, why? Because "Individual Initiative" can be just as good as "Herd Mentality". In Call of Duty 4 Team Deathmatch I always ranked 1st place in pubs (achieved without hacks, only some tweaks to my config and of course the nice monitor and mouse I had and the Sennheisers to go with them). Lots of times I would get 100 kills to 40 deaths, and the next on the scoreboard would have 40 kills 20 deaths or whatever. Because I was TWICE AS FAST, I GOT TWICE AS MUCH WORK DONE

So again I wrote all this, why? What in the world does this have to do with PR or your past experiences? Well, what if you had a squadmate who thought, "I am at least twice as good as my squad leader, why should I follow him?" He will do things his own way. That is the PC world. We are separated by hardware. The reason people acted cohesively back in your day is because no one knew what they know today. Everyone was innocent and easily-swayed. Today, people know more than other people and think they are better than you unless you can defeat them, showing them otherwise.

How to put seriousness back into gaming -- by "looking at what you're looking at" -- and by self-initiative actually

[Beee8190]

Was the Pre 1.0 really good, or is your memory lying to you

Good question but in my eyes, I wouldn't think so. Strange thing, as I was remembering the gameplay on TG back in the day just the other day and then this thread comes up.

As I see it, there really was something more to PR in .97 (or better yet pre 1.0) and I think it's more than just a nostalgia, hence why similar back in those glory days threads pop up every now and then.

I don't remember the days of TG / UKWF ex..because of the number of servers and players that used to play, the servers could accommodate only 64 players anyway so it's not that. What I miss is the slower pace of the game where sniper, spotter, HAT kit or squad leaders painting targets could actually make a big enough difference as to turn around the outcome of the battle, where communication was lot more important because your tank would not spawn in the next 5mins anyways, and where we've been force to teamwork and communicate as to not get completely trashed and where lone wolfing was a sure way to suicide in the first minute.

It is very rare we'd see more than 4 fobs at a time, because SL can't be bothered - and I don't really blame them either, by the time two fobs are up the game might very well be finished and asking for a supply drop you might as well hope your own pilot won't crash the helo on top of our heads.


I am sure the majority of VET players moved on to pursue careers or a family and is probably partially the reason why there has been some drop in player numbers to what we used to have, some might be bothered by the not so up to date engine or by game changes. Likely the combination of all.

My personal take on the current state is that while there has been some great changes, like the reduced cone fire, other changes were rather catastrophic in my eyes. I'd mention once again the too short respawn time on assets, especially tanks, way too precise assault rifles at any distance - especially the US weapons while ignoring the overall in game visibility with iron sights and the brutal recoil at the same time. Maybe PR has become a more realistic game due to such changes but I believe it sacrificed and alienated a few at the same time and for instance insurgency has still a lot to offer but I find it utterly frustrating 5 out of 6 times. Might be just my luck though

[Murphy]

I feel the standards at which admins hold players has slipped a lot over the years, this has lead to sub-par SLing and has slowly turned the once obligatory "co-ordination" aspect into an optional facet of the game. I believe part of the issue is that many of the veterans who have moved on failed to pass the torch to the newer members of the community (I'm sure the reasoning is broad and quite varied from person to person).

There have been threads trying to nudge people into re-capturing the once glorious TEAMWORK aspect of the game, but to no avail. In the end I feel it's partly due to how we, the community, have handled the influx of new players since PR became stand-alone. I also feel the administration of servers and how the stance of admins has changed over the years to a much more relaxed, somewhat hands off role has given a lot of leeway for bad habits to form.

I only play with people I know as I have had pretty piss poor experiences with the newer generation of players. Where I once enjoyed SLing squads with a handful of randoms and 2/3 friends, I know try to avoid having more than 1 or 2 randoms. It's quite difficult to force someone into the "old PR mindset", we used to have an environment that facilitated "seriousness" where now we have a "play however you want" mentality becoming quite prevalent.

This has ultimately lead myself, and many people I know, to cringe at the prospect of pubbing. It's just the nature of the beast, if you're not able to find the fun you once had in PR you will turn to other games to find the same experience.

I have a question for you Mouthpiece, or anyone else who took the time to read and reply to this thread.

Do we see a way to slowly stop the slip in the opposite direction? Can we facilitate "serious play" on public servers, or do we have to accept that people prefer to derp around instead of being a cohesive unit?